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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Sunderland, Saturday 7th December KO 17:30***

Very happy with the performance and the result. But it was not really enjoyable ! It is amazing how time seems to run very slow when we are leading and goes fast when we are losing. The 40 mins after we scored the 2nd goal felt like 4 long hours ! It was so nervous until the match was over ! Great thing is for the second match in a row, we came back from a goal down to win ! Suddenly we are now looking like comeback kings ! The second half performance was probably our best performance of the season. But the disappointing thing is we wasted many chances and should have won by a bigger margin. As David Pleat said, we created enough chances to win 2 matches ! We probably should have won 10-1 ! Defoe should have scored 4 or 5, Paulinho 2 while others like Chadli and Holtby should have scored atleast 1 each. Wish we become more clinical and score those chances.

It was important to respond immediately after conceding the goal. So it was a crucial time to score both our goals. Paulinho scored at the right time, just before the half time. It was a well-taken goal by Paulinho as he had to poke Chadli's header on target which he did. Chadli did well to head the ball into Paulinho's path. Paulinho badly needed that goal after being poor in recent matches. But disappointingly, Paulinho also wasted 2 other good chances, especially the open header in the second half. He really should learn to be more clinical in front of goal. Dembele's goal which was deflected into goal by a Sunderland defender was scored just at the crucial time as well. The game could have gone either way if we had not scored that goal within 5 mins after restart. Instead the goal put them under pressure and gave extra confidence to us. Not surprisingly we played really well after the goal.

Despite the win, was again disappointed that Defoe failed to score any goal. Defoe did play well and did everything except to score a goal. In fact, he was unlucky not to score atleast one. He had atleast 4 chances but hit the post 2 times and wasted 2 other chances. Not sure why he cannot finish off those one-on-one chance in the league like he always does in Cup matches. Thought it was the right decision to keep Defoe whole match as Soldado doesn't work as hard as Defoe did. But wish Defoe had scored his first league goal of the season. Would have liked Lamela to come on to help our attacks but can understand why Townsend came as he did well.

Really satisfied with the midfield as they played really well, especially in the 2nd half. Dembele and Paulinho probably had one of their best matches for us. Dembele showed what he can do when he goes forward as he created our second goal. Wish he helps our attacks more. Apart from scoring the goal, Paulinho also helped create chances for our attacks. It was pity Defoe didn't make use of the chance Paulinho created late in the match. Scoring the goal against Fulham seems to have boosted the confidence of Holtby as he worked very hard. Townsend did well when he came on as he not only created chances for others but almost scored with his shot which was saved. Credit also to Lennon and Chadli who assisted our crucial first goal. Sandro was lucky not to become our villain for handling the ball from the corner. It would have been a silly way to concede the penalty as Sandro had just came on a few mins earlier. Fortunately for Sandro, the ref somehow didn't give the penalty.

It was annoying to concede the goal the way we did. Lloris has to take full blame as he should have either collected the cross or punched it far away. His weak punch went straight to the Sunderland player which was a terrible mistake. You have to be worried about Lloris now as he has made too many mistakes since his head injury. The defence should have stopped the Sunderland player from having a open goal to score. Despite that, thought the defence did well with Capoue and Walker playing exceptionally well. It is a pity we have failed to keep a clean sheet yet again.

It is great to win our second away match in a row, especially the way we came back from a goal down to win both. It shows we now have the mental strength to recover from setbacks. But wish we won't do it all the times as it makes everyone too nervous. I would just prefer us to take the lead first and win it ! Hope this win will boost our confidence to go on a long winning run.
 
Very good game overall. Shows a lot of strength to come from behind to win two games in a row away from home.

Although bottom of the league this Sunderland team wasn't terrible, but we made them look poor I think. Our full backs (particularly Walker) along with the wide men did great jobs nullifying their threat from the wings and other than Hugo's error they created very little. This was a team that scored 3 against Chelsea so that's good going. Dawson and Capoue both deserve a lot of credit too, Dawson had his best game in a long time I thought and Capoue did really well.

Great to see us creating so many chances, things are looking better again. More like the Norwich and Cardiff games earlier in the season and less like the October/November struggles.
 
BOL It is an interesting theory you put forward. But why was it we were better in the first half against Chelsea and Man U at home and Everton away and then poor in the second half in all those games ? If as you say we need to take control of the game against the better teams, how do you expect us to play against Liverscum?
 
Pirate55 said:
BOL It is an interesting theory you put forward. But why was it we were better in the first half against Chelsea and Man U at home and Everton away and then poor in the second half in all those games ? If as you say we need to take control of the game against the better teams, how do you expect us to play against Liverscum?
Click to expand...

It's not about saving yourself for the second half, it's about attacking when it's most likely to be effective. Against some teams that might be in the first 20mins (although very few will start the match like that).

I'd expect us to play similarly against the bindippers too - apart from one player we have the far, far better team and should be treating them like Fulham with a dangerous striker.
 
scaramanga said:
It's not about saving yourself for the second half, it's about attacking when it's most likely to be effective. Against some teams that might be in the first 20mins (although very few will start the match like that).

I'd expect us to play similarly against the bindippers too - apart from one player we have the far, far better team and should be treating them like Fulham with a dangerous striker.
Click to expand...

I have a slightly different perspective on it, but related I suppose.

If you can carve out chances in the first half then of course you go for it. However there's something to be said about accepting some amount of patience as so many teams are very well organized and very hard working. Space is likely to open up in the last 15 minutes of the first half and in the last 30 minutes of the second half as players get a bit tired.

I think being somewhat careful and methodical in those periods where opponents are fresh and at their most focused to avoid mistakes is a solid plan. However it's a bit of a tightrope to walk as you need to maintain intensity and aggressiveness when defending and of course you need to pass and move with purpose to actually force opponents to work hard enough to tire if they sit deep.
 
braineclipse said:
I have a slightly different perspective on it, but related I suppose.

If you can carve out chances in the first half then of course you go for it. However there's something to be said about accepting some amount of patience as so many teams are very well organized and very hard working. Space is likely to open up in the last 15 minutes of the first half and in the last 30 minutes of the second half as players get a bit tired.

I think being somewhat careful and methodical in those periods where opponents are fresh and at their most focused to avoid mistakes is a solid plan. However it's a bit of a tightrope to walk as you need to maintain intensity and aggressiveness when defending and of course you need to pass and move with purpose to actually force opponents to work hard enough to tire if they sit deep.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but I'd also expect AVB as an opposition scout to identify times when teams seem to switch off too - be that time - based or position-based or even at throw ins etc.
 
Did MOTD mention Brown's foul on Dawson, the foul on Capoue (towards the end) or the 5 mins? Or did they just focus on Sandro's handball?
 
There was a blatant moment in the first half where a Sunderland player was tugging the arm of one of our players. I fail to remember which players but the offence took place on our left wing and about 35 minutes through. I couldn't believe that the referee didn't spot it.
 
Papercut said:
Did MOTD mention Brown's foul on Dawson, the foul on Capoue (towards the end) or the 5 mins? Or did they just focus on Sandro's handball?
Click to expand...

diego_maradona said:
Very true mate. That Wes brown bear hug was just as blatant as Sandro's handball
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I know it looked blatant, but by the letter of the laws I don't think the ref can give handball for that.

Handball has to be deliberate, intentional - like Suarez for Uruguay or Henry for France. Real, true handballs are pretty rare. The ref has to decide whether Sandro purposely intended to use his arm to block the ball and intentionally risk a penalty.

I think he just mis-timed it, very badly (probably because he'd just come on). He tried to use his arm to gain leverage for the jump to meet the ball with a header, but got it totally, totally wrong. But arm movement like that is commonplace, natural when trying to jump for the ball.

That said, in the spirit of law it could have easily been given but it's not the clanger by the ref that MOTD made out; the ref can easily make the case that he saw it but deemed it accidental.

But as they say, seen 'em given!
 
it was the pull on walker that infuriated me, so obvious, if they had scored from that I think my head would have exploded
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I know it looked blatant, but by the letter of the laws I don't think the ref can give handball for that.

Handball has to be deliberate, intentional - like Suarez for Uruguay or Henry for France. Real, true handballs are pretty rare. The ref has to decide whether Sandro purposely intended to use his arm to block the ball and intentionally risk a penalty.

I think he just mis-timed it, very badly (probably because he'd just come on). He tried to use his arm to gain leverage for the jump to meet the ball with a header, but got it totally, totally wrong. But arm movement like that is commonplace, natural when trying to jump for the ball.

That said, in the spirit of law it could have easily been given but it's not the clanger by the ref that MOTD made out; the ref can easily make the case that he saw it but deemed it accidental.

But as they say, seen 'em given!
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That might be the letter of the law, but the currently accepted and enforced interpretation of it is different.

If the letter of the law was followed very closely defenders could benefit massively by having their arms out from their bodies to "accidentally" block the ball without intentionally handling the ball. John Terry was an expert at throwing himself into blocks with his arms outstretched and gained clear advantages at times even though he didn't "intentionally handle it".
 
Pirate55 said:
BOL It is an interesting theory you put forward. But why was it we were better in the first half against Chelsea and Man U at home and Everton away and then poor in the second half in all those games ? If as you say we need to take control of the game against the better teams, how do you expect us to play against Liverscum?
Click to expand...

To be honest, this is something I don't have anything to back myself up with. All I can say is that we clearly do play at a quicker tempo when facing a tougher team. The exact reasons for it I'm not fully aware of, but there is a clear noticeable difference in our pass selection, the runs we make, the speed in which we do it all. My guess is...

It's kind of two fold. The first is that we play a slower tempo in a lot of games so that we have enough 'intensity' in the tank to be able to raise our game against the better teams. So while media and a few on here were disappointed with our performance against Tromso, I was delighted because we were professional. Of course Tromso are rubbish, and I'm sure if we really wanted to go out there and win by 5 goals we could have done so. But we had Man United on the weekend and so it was vital that we didn't waste ourselves trying to prove a point. I was pretty confident that we would be the better side against Man United because they obviously raised their intensity against Leverkeusen...it's a massive shame that we didn't win because we deserved it. Similarly it's not a massive surprise to me they lost these last 2 games. They raised their intensity in Germany, had to go toe to toe with us a few days later and then by the time Everton roll around and aren't afraid to pass the ball at Old Trafford, they are knackered. They looked awful against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I would suggest if they controlled their performance better in Germany, they may have picked up more points in the games following that.

As an aside...Chelsea's CL win is another example. I think they clearly reduced their intensity for the league and ploughed it all into the CL. Incredibly risky and they were still lucky to come away with the trophy but their performances in the league and Europe were night and day. Incredibly disappointing we didn't beat them at Stamford Bridge that year because we fully deserved it, unfortunately we were on a come down after a lot of exertions in the first half of the year too.

The second point, aside from preserving condition to be able to call upon it in big games, is that the strategy to establish control won't necessarily work against teams that are also able to stamp their own authority on the game. There wouldn't be any point waiting for the moment to strike as it could be very likely we've had to chase the ball for longer than we would have liked during the match ourselves, and therefore the idea of exploiting the condition differences doesn't play as well. In these instances, it seems like the thinking is it's best to establish a lead, which then forces the opposition's hand and at which point we can the establish a different form of control, more like containment. So no surprise we come out of the blocks fast against United, Everton and Chelsea and probably would have done against City as well.

If we could have gotten the two goal advantage against Chelsea - which arguably would have been very well deserved - then we would have been much better placed for the second half. Poor finishing let us down then. Poor concentration let us down against United. Against Everton, I think playing Lennon and Townsend on the opposite flanks may have hindered us...they've been showing recently that if we are in a match phase where we are flooding forward they can be effective on their 'natural' sides, and we've since seen a change in the manager's thinking in that regard.

Anyway last para was a bit of a digression but hope I gave my thoughts succinctly enough there. Essentially for a team like ours it would be harder to establish control and hit them later in a tougher match because the opposition would be able to do the same, so it makes sense to make sure we have enough intensity in the bank saved up so we can come at them from the off and make them chase the game on our terms once we have a lead. I'm pretty confident we can beat Liverpool because they've been mullering easier teams and while they may have a good opening period against us, I think we will be the better side against them overall. We'll see if I'm right.
 
And I think on my last para Dubai may come back and say 'if we go for the game from the off against bigger sides, why not do it against the smaller teams' and it's simply because this strategy I'm advocating has a plan for the smaller teams but also gives us a good chance of competing against the bigger ones too. I think it's much better to be cleverer against the smaller teams to allow us to take points from the bigger teams that will be around us, rather than everyone patting us on the back for how we can destroy Norwich only to then limply concede an away game to Hull without putting up a real fight.

At the end of last season, the fact that we were able to take points at different times off of Man United, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Chelsea massively helped us get near to them. It doesn't mean we don't want to win the games against the smaller teams too, just that the plan is a bit different then.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
And I think on my last para Dubai may come back and say 'if we go for the game from the off against bigger sides, why not do it against the smaller teams' and it's simply because this strategy I'm advocating has a plan for the smaller teams but also gives us a good chance of competing against the bigger ones too. I think it's much better to be cleverer against the smaller teams to allow us to take points from the bigger teams that will be around us, rather than everyone patting us on the back for how we can destroy Norwich only to then limply concede an away game to Hull without putting up a real fight.

At the end of last season, the fact that we were able to take points at different times off of Man United, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Chelsea massively helped us get near to them. It doesn't mean we don't want to win the games against the smaller teams too, just that the plan is a bit different then.
Click to expand...

I was planning to post something similar. Basically, we're conceding goal difference to be able to pick up more points.
 
braineclipse said:
I have a slightly different perspective on it, but related I suppose.

If you can carve out chances in the first half then of course you go for it. However there's something to be said about accepting some amount of patience as so many teams are very well organized and very hard working. Space is likely to open up in the last 15 minutes of the first half and in the last 30 minutes of the second half as players get a bit tired.

I think being somewhat careful and methodical in those periods where opponents are fresh and at their most focused to avoid mistakes is a solid plan. However it's a bit of a tightrope to walk as you need to maintain intensity and aggressiveness when defending and of course you need to pass and move with purpose to actually force opponents to work hard enough to tire if they sit deep.
Click to expand...

The stats on what points in the game when the most premier league goals are scored make interesting reading. I'll dig them out when I have more time.
 
despite the scoreline - lets not be too carried away:
- another mistake in defence (loris) allowed them to score
- ref didn't give a stonewall penalty against us
- and the winning goal was an own goal.

we still have issues to sort out.
 
I posted ABV out on about page 10 after their goal went in. After that i rely enjoyed watching us. Irrespective of the result or number of goals we did (or didnt) score. There was a purpose to our play and ut was great to see us playing with smiling faces, attempting to play football with fluidity.

In the second half we attacked space, played forwards and took a chance with a pass. Best 45 of the season for me. The effort was there for all to see. Whatever you did, keep it up AVB!
 
metalgear said:
despite the scoreline - lets not be too carried away:
- another mistake in defence (loris) allowed them to score
- ref didn't give a stonewall penalty against us
- and the winning goal was an own goal.

we still have issues to sort out.
Click to expand...

-Another mistake yes and they've been a bit too common in recent games, but overall this season I don't think we've been particularly error prone at the back. I think it will pass again.

-Yeah, they should have had a penalty. But we massively dominated the chances, hit the woodwork twice and had several other proper chances. No doubt we were the deserved winners I thought. Sure sometimes you don't get the win you deserve, but this time we did.
 
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