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O/T...whats wrong with a wage and salary cap

A

africanspurs

Justin Edinburgh
Thoughts?

Fairness has come up a fair amount when talking about the spending powers of some of the super G 14 clubs and how it eliminates the competitive landscape of other clubs.

Why not just instill a wage or salary cap? if not both?
 
Where do you set this wage/salary cap?


You can't demand that the top teams reduce the amounts that they are already paying to their players, because that would be forcing them to renege on contracts.


So you have to make the wage cap above the highest paid player in the league, so probably somewhere around 200k, which makes the whole thing pointless because the bottom teams can't afford it and the top teams can.



In addition if you bring in a wage cap you basically just tell the players 'Don't come to England, just go and make more money elsewhere!'
 
Can never and will never work, imv

Apart from the reasons Spursalot has mentioned - there are many profitable clubs who generate massive profits year after year - why hamper such sustainable development? Courts will never allow it anyway

It is lottery winners that need to be eliminated, not clubs who have adopted sound financial models and have worked hard to achieve that
 
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Spursalot said:
You can't demand that the top teams reduce the amounts that they are already paying to their players, because that would be forcing them to renege on contracts.
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No it wouldn't. Because we all know something like that couldn't be implemented overnight. It would simply be a rule that all *new* contracts must adhere to some form of calculated salary cap. Then after current contracts have run down, everyone would be on a level (or more level) playing field.

The problem, of course, is that the best players would leave for leagues that didn't have such a cap. If it was EU-wide, then suddenly the Chinese or Russian or Qatari leagues would see a sudden massive increase in quality. I'm not sure that wouldn't be an acceptable price to pay though, to take the huge disparity in wealth out of the game. Maybe. I'm not decided one way or the other.
 
you can guarantee if they brought it in the likes of chelsea and city would make sure the players also signed deals with the likes of nikle and adidas and they would be paid extra throught that route. Or become the face of dodgy russian owned energy firms you get the jist
 
A salary cap and a wage cap, with proper rules in place to ensure that there aren't any ways around it (i.e. sponsorship deals, signing on fees, etc), that are enforced on football world wide, would be beneficial for the game as a whole, IMO. Of course rich (Chelski/City) and big clubs (United) would be worse off with more competition, but a more competitive league would be much more exciting for the fans of lesser clubs.

The bigger the gap between the top clubs and the rest get, the less interesting football gets. Just look at La Liga and SPL. Without regulations to counter that trend, that's where the Premier League is going as well, give or take the odd billionaire trying to mess up the status quo. Which is equally bad, really.

Obviously the problem is how to put in place a system that prevents this gap from widening (preferably the gap should be much smaller than it is), while at the same time limits the impact of billionaire owners like Abramowich and that dude in Manchester, and allows clubs to be rewarded for being run sensibly. I'm not smart enough to have an answer to that, but I'm sure a salary cap and wage cap of some sort would have to be a part of it.

It will never happen though.
 
Spursalot said:
Where do you set this wage/salary cap?

You can't demand that the top teams reduce the amounts that they are already paying to their players, because that would be forcing them to renege on contracts.

So you have to make the wage cap above the highest paid player in the league, so probably somewhere around 200k, which makes the whole thing pointless because the bottom teams can't afford it and the top teams can.

In addition if you bring in a wage cap you basically just tell the players 'Don't come to England, just go and make more money elsewhere!'
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all this says is that the man citys of this world are allowed then. if they have access to income then who are we to not allow it......

people want to temper city's spending power cause they have rich owners..look closer to home first and be willing to shackle yourself up first if you want to do the same to someone else

but going over your points.....bearing in mind that fairness is the order of the day

You can't demand that the top teams reduce the amounts that they are already paying to their players, because that would be forcing them to renege on contracts.
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yeah, either that or sell / loan people off. and this has been done already (25 man squad english home grown etc)and looks like to being done again (FFP)..so that excuse is pretty weak anyway, this can be done and only those that dont want it to be will site something like contract re-negotiations IMV

So you have to make the wage cap above the highest paid player in the league, so probably somewhere around 200k, which makes the whole thing pointless because the bottom teams can't afford it and the top teams can.
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what if the wage cap wasnt a sum that you were allowed to pay each player but rather as total amount that you can pay ALL your players.....that way the actual salary of anyone person wont matter at all, but instead it would matter if you had loads on big wages. that way you have to employ a bit of logistics and operational research to get the optimum scale of what you woudl be paying each tier of player /player types

In addition if you bring in a wage cap you basically just tell the players 'Don't come to England, just go and make more money elsewhere!
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if that scares you then you're basically not the guy that i am addressing, i am more addressing people that are talking about true fairness.....and what that really means. what your saying is that we would lose out, or at least the league would lose out on the better players due to the fact that they could make money elsewhere, as such the league should be ALLOWWED to compete with the other leagues. which basically gives license to people with money to do the same thing in principle. in order to compete with the big teams you have to spend big money. Otherwise the big teams will just live the lives of ancient lord...everyone esle would just work to fatten the big teams
 
No, just that a wage/salary cap is unfeasible.



A capped link between turnover and wages is more feasible.


Plus comparing it to the 25 man squad is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
ArcspacE said:
Can never and will never work, imv

Apart from the reasons Spursalot has mentioned - there are many profitable clubs who generate massive profits year after year - why hamper such sustainable development? Courts will never allow it anyway

It is lottery winners that need to be eliminated, not clubs who have adopted sound financial models and have worked hard to achieve that
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MANY clubs generate MASSIVE profits?? i wasnt aware this was common ground .

but either way you have to ask yourself how these clubs came to be in a position to get this kind of income in the first place. historically speaking.....did they have a 'leg up' in regards to getting into a position where they are self sustaining

think of it like a factory producing shoes....start up cost would be HUGE but then after that shoe production would cost minimal overheads in comparison and hat factpry would be getting crazy income. but the initial outlay would have looked obscene
 
Whilst there's absolutely no chance of it happening, I would like to see a squad salary cap introduced in European football so that clubs were restricted to spending say £150m a year on their 25 man first team squad' wages. That would curb the ability of likes of ManU, Madrid, City and Chelski from using their financial clout to cherry pick the best players from other clubs by offering them wages that no one else can match. With a more level playing field then perhaps we would see a return to the days when a club that is not part of the Sky 4 actually stood a reasonable chance of becoming Champions of England.

The world's best paid teams, Emirates Marketing Project close in on Barca and Real Madrid | Sporting Intelligence

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James Lawton: NFL could teach the Premier League a great deal about financial fair play - News & Comment - Football - The Independent

PL-wage-distrib-GSSS-2012.jpg Premier League wage distribution by team, average first team salary
La-Liga-wage-distrib-GSSS-2012.jpg La Liga wage distribution by team, average first team salary
NFL-wage-distrib-GSSS-2012.jpg NFL wage distribution by team, average first team salary
 
No, just that a wage/salary cap is unfeasible.
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why? why is that unfeasible, as in why can it not be done if agreed in principle



A capped link between turnover and wages is more feasible.
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its easier to fathom and its an easier pill for people in charge with a big fan base to swallow, cause the power they have to relinquish is relative and because of this they can get in line i personally feel


Plus comparing it to the 25 man squad is like comparing apples and oranges.
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again i am not sure why. you were talking about renegotiating contracts......all that was done in mind during the transition period prior to the 25 man rule...with home grown....clubbs started trimming the wage bill, selling people off etc..to meet that remit. it happened with the bosman ruling....it 'should' happen with the FFP.......change would naturally have a transitionary period and people that fall into the old law might beneift for a year or two or three etc etc (actually knowing the greed it would probably make everyone renegotiate thier contracts if this law was about to be enforced) but in the end all of the UK football would have to comply
 
Remember that in American sports, all the teams are franchises. That is not the case in UK sport, where teams are their own businesses.

Having said that, there is no reason why it couldn't be implemented. There is nothing the EU would do about it, as there is already a salary cap in Rugby Union. Unfortunately as you see in Rugby Union, the best players go overseas for more cash. That's why Jonny Wilkinson is playing in France.

I don't even want a salary cap, I want a luxury tax like you see in basketball. The FA sets a salary, say £80m/year. For every £1 over that you spend on salaries, you have to pay the league £1, so if a team had a £100m/year wage bill, they would have to pay the league a further £20m. This money is then shared out equally to all the clubs under the tax.

It could be done so the money filters down the leagues, to Premiership teams get 85%, Championship 10%, League 1 3% and League 2 2%.

As an example, lets say the amount of tax paid by City and Chelsea is £30m in a single year. That means £25.5m get split between the remaining 18 Premier League clubs (about £1.4m each), £3m gets split between the 24 Championship clubs etc...

Big clubs get to spend what they want, but the whole of English football benefits. Win/win I say.
 
It's unfeasible for the many reasons that have been mentioned in this thread.

I can't be bothered to copy and paste them.



The 25 man rule was about getting 'Home Grown' players playing in an english league and not about curbing spending. It has done absolutely zero to curb spending.
 
Richie said:
Remember that in American sports, all the teams are franchises. That is not the case in UK sport, where teams are their own businesses.
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I was about to mention this - considerations have to made for the nature of how association football is run worldwide. I think the best way is to have a TOTAL salary cap which is a % of revenue or turnover, then you can structure player's wages within that how you like as long as it falls below. Of course there is the issue of sign-on fees etc which need to be negotiated.

I just feel with so many different leagues across Europe (and the world), it would take years to implement such a decision - whereas in the NBA, NFL etc the teams have to comply with the league themselves. The problem arises when you have an organisation like the Premier League trying to compete with other leagues. They wouldn't want to reduce wages as that would mean that less high-quality players would be attracted to our shores, and as such their commercial value would go down.
 
It's unfeasible for the many reasons that have been mentioned in this thread.

I can't be bothered to copy and paste them.
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thats all right cause i am pretty sure each one can be countered as european football isnt the beginning or the end of sports management...and nothing really is that new, just new names.

LOL, i just had a quick look at the thread.......many reasons did you say? i clearly need to go to spec savers i agree dude.


The 25 man rule was about getting 'Home Grown' players playing in an english league and not about curbing spending. It has done absolutely zero to curb spending
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thats not the reason i mentioned it though. the logistical approach and the ability of clubs to reshape / offer contracts and re-jig their squads is why i mentioned it. you said it isnt do-able partially cause teams would have to renege their current contract? i am saying that contract re-negotiations have been done in the past when a new mandate is enforced. or at least they have been done in lue...there will always be transitionary periods of course........ so it is do able IMV
 
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