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Not Since Sir Bill & Burky? Is Poch our SAF?

thfcsteff

Terry Dyson
Reading how Pochettino decided enough was enough, stepped into the Eriksen situation and, less than a week afterwards, said-player had happily signed an extension, was a defining marker for me.

Steadily, this man has embossed himself on the club, on it's identity, on the squad and by default, it's history. He has slowly but surely wrestled shared control to a place where he the final say and he is the final word, albeit he takes counsel from those fiercely trusted around him. Incredibly, he has tamed Daniel Levy, who went against all his instincts at the window to give the manager a player HE felt he needed and could be 'got'. For over the odds on paper. Yet, when Pochettino wants a player, only a fool would deny that player's worth to the manager, his philosophies and his plan.

His intervention with Eriksen was both extraordinary and definitive. He will not allow margins to distract, and he will now allow 'title' to dictate who deals with what. He left them to it, nothing was happening, so in he stepped. Shankley-like. Fergie-like...VERY Fergie-like. His expressed disgust at the end of the season, yet his refusal to throw those words around in public at that time because of the knowledge that nothing good would come of them? SAF territory, keep it in house and use it for maximum power when it was there to be used. Remember when Poch met with Fergie late last season? Note how there is word that they speak? Rumor that Fergie likes Poch a lot?

Paul Mitchell left and we all believe it is because of his frustration with how DL works, but in fairness, it has never said anything different on the tin, and the change has actually been that DL has relinquished some powers. Because he knows that Poch is (currently) irreplaceable. If he left, if he somehow got bombed out by interference from above, we would likely see a drift back to mediocrity. This squad, his loyal soldiers, would be off.

At this point, Mauricio Pochettino is one of the longest-serving managers in the Premiership I believe. Remarkable because it's only his third season, and also because we have had a taste for shifting managers. But I want him to be this club's manager for years to come. A decade. Two. Plus. Because I believe we have the 'next' Sir Alex Ferguson-type patriarch, a man who is his own and who takes sole charge of his affairs. A man who for me is Tottenham Hotspur...yeah...when I heard he had single-handedly made sure the Eriksen renewal went through, I knew once and for all he was not just a good man, a fine man, a top manager, but that he was destined to be a GREAT manager.
 
I'm with you 100%, but the fickle, short term nature of football is always looming.

He has transformed the identity of the club, the players all have respect and humility much like the Barca players are instilled with from a young age. But there is a tenacity that has never been associated with the club in my lifetime.

Long may he reign
 
Reading how Pochettino decided enough was enough, stepped into the Eriksen situation and, less than a week afterwards, said-player had happily signed an extension, was a defining marker for me.

Steadily, this man has embossed himself on the club, on it's identity, on the squad and by default, it's history. He has slowly but surely wrestled shared control to a place where he the final say and he is the final word, albeit he takes counsel from those fiercely trusted around him. Incredibly, he has tamed Daniel Levy, who went against all his instincts at the window to give the manager a player HE felt he needed and could be 'got'. For over the odds on paper. Yet, when Pochettino wants a player, only a fool would deny that player's worth to the manager, his philosophies and his plan.

His intervention with Eriksen was both extraordinary and definitive. He will not allow margins to distract, and he will now allow 'title' to dictate who deals with what. He left them to it, nothing was happening, so in he stepped. Shankley-like. Fergie-like...VERY Fergie-like. His expressed disgust at the end of the season, yet his refusal to throw those words around in public at that time because of the knowledge that nothing good would come of them? SAF territory, keep it in house and use it for maximum power when it was there to be used. Remember when Poch met with Fergie late last season? Note how there is word that they speak? Rumor that Fergie likes Poch a lot?

Paul Mitchell left and we all believe it is because of his frustration with how DL works, but in fairness, it has never said anything different on the tin, and the change has actually been that DL has relinquished some powers. Because he knows that Poch is (currently) irreplaceable. If he left, if he somehow got bombed out by interference from above, we would likely see a drift back to mediocrity. This squad, his loyal soldiers, would be off.

At this point, Mauricio Pochettino is one of the longest-serving managers in the Premiership I believe. Remarkable because it's only his third season, and also because we have had a taste for shifting managers. But I want him to be this club's manager for years to come. A decade. Two. Plus. Because I believe we have the 'next' Sir Alex Ferguson-type patriarch, a man who is his own and who takes sole charge of his affairs. A man who for me is Tottenham Hotspur...yeah...when I heard he had single-handedly made sure the Eriksen renewal went through, I knew once and for all he was not just a good man, a fine man, a top manager, but that he was destined to be a GREAT manager.
Maybe for the first time since 1984 there's a football club over there...
 
I think Mitchell left because Poch has more power... And I have no evidence to back that up just a theory that if Poch is taking over ALL the football aspects which it feels like then Mitchell may have felt a little under threat (and they hadn't worked together for long in the past)

Poch feels to me like a man who is happy to take on more if it meets his ambitions (much like Simeone who I see similarities to in the style of play). He and his trusted advisors but he isn't scared to back his own decisions and will see them through

I don't know why we sold some of the players we have but if that's what he wants then I'm 100% behind it. He has earned that now and deserves the backing of everyone. He will make mistakes I'm sure but he will also do a lot more right for us
 
Oh no....and things were going so well...thanks for nothing @thfcsteff
:mad:


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Don't you be fretting glorygloryeze. Poch has got this!
 
Call me Mr Cynical but I don't altogether see this as a good thing............

Again , don't you be fretting. Poch is with us for the next few years, I'm sure of it . He's sticking with us and is going to win the big pots for our new trophy room.
 
I don't think we needed a new thread for this

This is the sort of attention that Poch despises

Best to do things quietly. No fuss
 
I don't think we needed a new thread for this

This is the sort of attention that Poch despises.
Best to do things quietly. No fuss
I'm all for allowing new threads like this to run for a bit before they're eventually merged into whichever they belong.

Revitalises the topic, livens up the forum and catches more interest. Without new threads the forum becomes dull.

Besides I for one cannot be arsed to keep checking the main thread every time something's added only to discover yet another inconsequential footnote.
 
Reading how Pochettino decided enough was enough, stepped into the Eriksen situation and, less than a week afterwards, said-player had happily signed an extension, was a defining marker for me.

Steadily, this man has embossed himself on the club, on it's identity, on the squad and by default, it's history. He has slowly but surely wrestled shared control to a place where he the final say and he is the final word, albeit he takes counsel from those fiercely trusted around him. Incredibly, he has tamed Daniel Levy, who went against all his instincts at the window to give the manager a player HE felt he needed and could be 'got'. For over the odds on paper. Yet, when Pochettino wants a player, only a fool would deny that player's worth to the manager, his philosophies and his plan.

His intervention with Eriksen was both extraordinary and definitive. He will not allow margins to distract, and he will now allow 'title' to dictate who deals with what. He left them to it, nothing was happening, so in he stepped. Shankley-like. Fergie-like...VERY Fergie-like. His expressed disgust at the end of the season, yet his refusal to throw those words around in public at that time because of the knowledge that nothing good would come of them? SAF territory, keep it in house and use it for maximum power when it was there to be used. Remember when Poch met with Fergie late last season? Note how there is word that they speak? Rumor that Fergie likes Poch a lot?

Paul Mitchell left and we all believe it is because of his frustration with how DL works, but in fairness, it has never said anything different on the tin, and the change has actually been that DL has relinquished some powers. Because he knows that Poch is (currently) irreplaceable. If he left, if he somehow got bombed out by interference from above, we would likely see a drift back to mediocrity. This squad, his loyal soldiers, would be off.

At this point, Mauricio Pochettino is one of the longest-serving managers in the Premiership I believe. Remarkable because it's only his third season, and also because we have had a taste for shifting managers. But I want him to be this club's manager for years to come. A decade. Two. Plus. Because I believe we have the 'next' Sir Alex Ferguson-type patriarch, a man who is his own and who takes sole charge of his affairs. A man who for me is Tottenham Hotspur...yeah...when I heard he had single-handedly made sure the Eriksen renewal went through, I knew once and for all he was not just a good man, a fine man, a top manager, but that he was destined to be a GREAT manager.

FFS. This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that always comes back to bite us in the arse. Am pretty sure there's a link to this thread on Redcafe laughing at us now.

Poch was my first choice as manager and has done a fantastic job so far. But can we please keep the SAF comparisons away until he's actually won a fudging League Cup, let alone a treble. Jesus Christ.

Things change so quickly in football. At this point in his Tottenham career then Redknapp's points per game very similar to what Poch has now. Let's not forget, we've lost at home to teams like Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Brom and Aston Villa under Poch, if we drop points against Sunderland on the weekend the narrative will immediately change to "he's taken Tottenham as far as he can, wasted money on brick players without Mitchell, it's Brian Clough without Peter Taylor all over again."

A bit of fudging patience please. How can anyone actually write that they're hoping for him to stay here for 20 years? You have no idea what the landscape of football is going to be like in 20 years, let alone what Poch is going to be like as a manager and how he is going to evolve over time. Am pretty sure you'd have been able to convince most Arsenal fans in 2004 to get Wenger's name tattooed on their rooster to get him to stay for another 12 years, but looking back on it now a lot of them would probably sack him then if given the option to go back in a time machine and make it happen.

Don't know how many false dawns you need to be slapped in the face with before we start learning our lesson...
 
Didn't read anything bar the title but can safely say that he certainly isn't. Probably got to win some trophies with us first like....
 
I think Mitchell left because Poch has more power... And I have no evidence to back that up just a theory that if Poch is taking over ALL the football aspects which it feels like then Mitchell may have felt a little under threat (and they hadn't worked together for long in the past)

Poch feels to me like a man who is happy to take on more if it meets his ambitions (much like Simeone who I see similarities to in the style of play). He and his trusted advisors but he isn't scared to back his own decisions and will see them through

I don't know why we sold some of the players we have but if that's what he wants then I'm 100% behind it. He has earned that now and deserves the backing of everyone. He will make mistakes I'm sure but he will also do a lot more right for us

And McDermott's role was expanded significantly too, so between him and Poch that left little left for Mitchell.

I think he's clearly our 2nd best manager since Nicholson. But agree with spurspinter1, until he wins a trophy, he's still behind Venables, Ramos, Graham in terms of cold hard achievements
 
Trophies are ultimately the marker you have to judge someone with, if you're going to compare them to titans like Sir Alex. Poch has come close once, but he hasn't yet won anything. For me, if he stays here until, oh, 2019, and leaves when we're settled into the new stadium having won something of note (the FA Cup, EFL Cup or whatever), his combined record of CL qualification and a trophy win would put him up there as the best manager we've had in the PL era. In the modern game, that's a reasonable expectation to have - he gives us five years, wins something, advances our club and then goes to Barcelona or United or wherever having written his name into our history books with sufficient vigour, and we go again trying to find someone to take us up the next level.

Getting up to Burkinshaw or Bill Nic is another matter entirely. Burkinshaw won two FA Cups (back when they were considered important) and the UEFA Cup over an eight year spell at the club. The longevity of his stay and the multiple trophies won would have to be something Poch matches if he's to be seriously considered a better manager (for Tottenham Hotspur) than Burkinshaw. And Bill Nic....well, Bill Nic revolutionized the club in much the same way that Arthur Rowe did a decade earlier, won the first double of the twentieth century, won the first European trophy a British club ever secured, and finished his sixteen-year managerial career at Spurs having won a league title, three FA Cups, two League Cups, the Cup Winners' Cup and the UEFA Cup. Similar longevity and a similar trophy record (topped with similar 'firsts' for the club) would be required before we could class Poch in the same category.

As for Sir Alex...

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.....erhmm. :) The signs of Poch wielding influence over the club and setting up a patriarchal style of management are good precursors to him eventually becoming a SAF. But I won't allow myself to dream of a day when Poch reaches the heights that Red Nose did, because, honestly, it's almost impossible to imagine such a thing. The man stands alone. He likely always will stand alone.

What I can imagine Poch becoming ((with some no doubt unwarranted naivety and hope) is a club icon, in much the same vein as Burkinshaw - a man who stays for close to a decade, wins multiple trophies and adds to our storied record of success and drama. Beyond that is an unknown chasm that I'm too cynical and scarred by past disappointments to venture into. :p
 
Until he wins something, he has to be behind Burkinshaw and El Tel.

Would agree, i do think Poch is doing a good job but until he actually wins a/some trophy's then he can not be mentioned with our past great managers.

After all its should be about winning and putting things in the trophy cabinet.
 
FFS. This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that always comes back to bite us in the arse. Am pretty sure there's a link to this thread on Redcafe laughing at us now.

Poch was my first choice as manager and has done a fantastic job so far. But can we please keep the SAF comparisons away until he's actually won a fudgeing League Cup, let alone a treble. Jesus Christ.

Things change so quickly in football. At this point in his Tottenham career then Redknapp's points per game very similar to what Poch has now. Let's not forget, we've lost at home to teams like Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Brom and Aston Villa under Poch, if we drop points against Sunderland on the weekend the narrative will immediately change to "he's taken Tottenham as far as he can, wasted money on brick players without Mitchell, it's Brian Clough without Peter Taylor all over again."

A bit of fudgeing patience please. How can anyone actually write that they're hoping for him to stay here for 20 years? You have no idea what the landscape of football is going to be like in 20 years, let alone what Poch is going to be like as a manager and how he is going to evolve over time. Am pretty sure you'd have been able to convince most Arsenal fans in 2004 to get Wenger's name tattooed on their rooster to get him to stay for another 12 years, but looking back on it now a lot of them would probably sack him then if given the option to go back in a time machine and make it happen.

Don't know how many false dawns you need to be slapped in the face with before we start learning our lesson...

Fantastic response. Seriously. Some very valid points, albeit put as darkly as you tend to state things (one man's realism is another man's depression, etc, etc), but let me specifically reply to this.

1) I am a writer. That's what I do with my life. A lot of what I post is an extension of that mindset, one which tends to either elaborate or enhance. I thoroughly enjoy putting pieces like this up as markers/points of discussion.

2) Yes, things change quickly in football, but relatively-speaking, he has been an anchor and looks set continue being one. I personally find it laughable that you would even compare Redknapp and Poch, two totally different eras and styles which traded off two totally different models of operation (one short-term, one obviously not). As for the last bit of that paragraph, absolutely, you are right, short-term pessimistic tossers will always flutter like a flag in the lightest of breezes; hopefully there aren't any of those sorts here!

2) I personally don't operate like that. If I continually reverted to 'false dawn fears' then I might well sack everything and stay indoors. Mistakes are made, hopes rise and sometimes die, but fear of the past should never EVER be allowed to preclude optimism for the future. One man's optimism is another man's gullibility, that I understand too.

Again, a good hearty response much appreciated.
 
Until he wins something, he has to be behind Burkinshaw and El Tel.

I agree with this of course, but in terms of what he's building you'd be hard-pressed to deny he is the first manager to wield such universal influence at the club since Sir Bill and Burky (Venners doesn't count for me -sorry, good bloke and all but a nicer 'Arry)...
 
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