1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice

Northumberland Development Project - new year, new stadium

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Jordinho, 12 Feb 2013.

  1. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    I thought you would - but there is the way they can stop the game going ahead, you wanted to understand the measures they have and now you do.
     
  2. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    I wanted to understand so that I could see whether the measure would be in stopping the initial certificate (which, I assume they can do for any reason they like) or because they can't fulfil their responsibility. If the latter, and it appears as if it is, then I would expect Levy to be taking legal advice on how we would recover those costs from them.
     
  3. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Chris Armstrong

    Joined:
    26 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    5,245
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    The ridiculous thing is that there would be the same 3,000 number of Arsenal fans there as there always was at White Hart Lane.
     
  4. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    ok - in general is better not to tinkle off the police and other bodies you need in order to operate, you will find them being a lot more strict on the stuff that they could let go.
     
  5. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Chris Armstrong

    Joined:
    26 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    5,245
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Unfortunately it isn't that simple. The club are using both their own cash reserves and their pool of credit to build this stadium. That has been clear from the last couple of financial statements, where the cash position has reduced from having a net cash surplus to having a large amount of net debt, despite making very large operational profits and spending little if anything net on transfer fees.
     
  6. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Chris Armstrong

    Joined:
    26 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    5,245
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    I think this one is going to go about as well as your pending damages law suit against South Korea. ;)
     
    Kandi1977 likes this.
  7. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Christian Ziege

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    10,741
    Likes Received:
    5,372
    Location:
    lobbing seaman from 50 yards
    None of us know what money is going where for what, or if the precedent set the last couple of years is to continue.

    Arguably, with the stadium all but complete, things are about to change dramatically as we refinance/get sponsorship etc.

    A bit like having an expensive bridging loan while you build a house, but as it nears completion you can get a mortgage and all the immediate money crunch disappears...

    I dont claim to be an expert, at all. I am very confident in how much I actually dont know, if you know what I mean? Which is why I think its a bit rich when people talk in such absolutes.

    Bottom line is, one thing I think we should all be able to agree upon, Levy knows this brick back to front and wont leave us hamstrung.
     
    Mikey10 and MKSpur like this.
  8. StephenH

    StephenH Les Ferdinand

    Joined:
    21 Jun 2015
    Messages:
    11,720
    Likes Received:
    5,533
    Location:
    SW London
    Here's hoping.[​IMG]
     
  9. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    It would have been against Son if he'd decided to complete his military service.
     
  10. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    I find that those in charge of public funds tend to be very risk averse. The suggestion of costly legal entanglements tends to convince them you are right more often than not.
     
  11. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Cool so you think it will be Arsenal and Levy that we get a safety certificate, I think not.
     
  12. LesMedley

    LesMedley Rohan Ricketts

    Joined:
    21 Aug 2014
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    53
    I despair.
    You appear to be serious about comparing borrowing on a credit card with financing a £600 million to £1 billion development project.
    Anyone who that thinks borrowing on a credit card to pay any bills that should have been provided for is a good way to run their finances needs lessons in domestic financial management. Interest rates when borrowing on a credit card are exorbitant; not as bad as from a pay-day loan shyster but nevertheless still to be kept as far away from as possible. A "good credit card rate" is currently 13-14%, and they often go higher than 30%.
    You ask "The car comes back from its MOT with a list of repairs, it costs a bomb and you put that on the credit card - do those monthly repayments jump through the roof? " Of course they do. People who get into domestic financial trouble tend to start off borrowing on their credit card, default, become unable to get a credit card, and then resort to pay-day loan companies or worse. if your income is sufficient to allow you to cover for these unnecessary payments, then think how much better off you would be if you did some forward planning.
    In the scenario you suggest the sensible thing to do would be to work out how long you will need to pay for the bill, then get a fixed-term loan from your bank, assuming you haven't been sensible enough to put funds by to cover from what really are likely to be inevitable future costs. Cars wear out. That shouldn't be a surprise.
    The essential point on the financing of the stadium is the one I originally made. Finance facilities have to be serviced and repaid, and that will inevitably have an adverse effect on funds being available for other acquisitions until the loans are repaid or the extra income from the larger more flexible stadium more than counteract that.
    I just thank providence that Daniel Levy and Matthew Collecott are responsible for the club's finances rather than you.
     
    Finney Is Back likes this.
  13. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    I haven't got a clue when the stadium will be ready and have no interest in speculating.

    What I am sure of is that if the stadium is ready and proven safe, I don't expect Levy to just shrug and wave goodbye to that money. With what you know of his character, do you?
     
  14. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    I expect him to as he knows its the rules, he follows the rules when they give us a reduced allocation at Arsenal based on police advice, he complains but no court case of yet.
     
  15. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    Does a reduced attendance at Arsenal cost us or them?
     
  16. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    They don't reduce the attendance they just sell less tickets to us.

    It definitely costs us on the pitch, "customer" satisfaction and potentially positions in the league (£MM).
     
  17. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Christian Ziege

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    10,741
    Likes Received:
    5,372
    Location:
    lobbing seaman from 50 yards
    Despair all you like, when you so spectacularly miss the point I was making its quite fun.

    The point really is quite simple. You borrow money, be that credit card, over draft, mortgage, loan... you pay it back in smaller increments. Here we agree.

    You increase that loan, those small increments increase, of course.

    But not in a dramatic fashion.

    As you put it - this is a £600m - £1bn project. This extra borrowing will be a tiny % of the whole, and consequently wont be a huge impact upon those smaller repayments.

    All of which will have been managed by a man who knows this stuff infinitely better than either of us.
     
  18. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    I think you're really stretching the point there. Not only is the difference probably immeasurably small, but also virtually impossible to demonstrate in court.

    With our games at Wembley, there's a very definite loss to the club for every match we play. Even if we just took the cost to rent Wembley and added half of what they receive in in-stadium revenue, that's a very simple loss to prove. If there's a loss and it's caused by an external party, especially in their inability to fulfil their role, then there's grounds for legal action.

    As with most cases, it would never end up in court. It would simply cause the following conversations:

    Levy: The new stadium's ready
    Popo: We don't want the first match to be Arsenal as we're entirely unsure of our own competence - you'll have to play another match at Wembley.
    Levy: That's fine, I'll just sue for the losses incurred
    Popo: Maybe we can make Arsenal work
     
  19. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    I think you are overestimating his ability to sue, his desire to sue and the police backing down if he did.
     
  20. scaramanga

    scaramanga Gary Stevens Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    20,526
    Likes Received:
    8,984
    In which case I assume you've never been involved in legal action with public entities. I have, and they regularly back down at the very mention of legal action.
     

Share This Page