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No Saggy-face thread?!?

Harry took us up a level from where we typically were with Jol; apart from vs Man Utd, we started showing up vs the big clubs.
However, his lack of planning/coaching always left an unsatisfied taste in the mouth.
AVB initially took this and made us play smarter vs the big clubs until his final 2/3 months.
They both added to our recent growth we've seen...up to Levy now to cement the good bits all these managers (including Poch) has brought
 
I think one of the biggest examples of that is Parker, who rather frustratingly for me gets talked about as a "great" player. He isnt.

Initially he did a very disciplined holding job, and did it superbly. If that was all he ever did maybe Id buy into the "great" tag.

Modric and co ahead of him did the business and the platform Parker provided was perfect.

Until he decides, actually, he should be playing further up the field, making transitions, attacking - and basically went off to run things.

Not only was he fudging useless at this, it really wasnt his game, he then neglected the excellent defensive job he was doing meaning Modric was dropping ever deeper to compensate.

How fudged up is that? Luka Modric covering the back four so Scott Parker can run up field and lose it!?

This is a real example of Redknapps management - or lack there of - and exactly the sort of thing I was crying out for him to step in and put right. He never did.
I disagree with you here. I don't think that Parker ever played for us as a real out and out holding midfielder. He was primarily defensive minded but still had license to get forward when sensible, Modric would then drop in to cover (as I would imagine instructed by the manager and as is sensible). Harry's Spurs team was fantastic to watch. We played brilliant, attacking football, generally always taking the game to the opposition. That was the way that we played because we had a bunch of excellent attacking footballers. However if you think back to our away game in Milan, Redknapp also showed that he could set up a team to defend deep and play purely on the counter.
 
I’m a fan of Harry’s reign but it sounded more like he was defending himself than the club!

You would be right if he did not make such a staunch defence of players. He can also really only talk about his own time with any real education.

He was spot on and what I said earlier I stand by, Neville played in a time where we rolled over due to the gulf in class not bottle.

Its boring reporting
 
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...enham-comments-after-manchester-a3977106.html

Love this from Harry.

I do get where Nev was coming from, we’ve all said similar! But fair play that the criticism would have resonated with Harry, and I bloody love he’s come out swinging (fnar).

Get the popcorn out and enjoy round 3 I reckon! :cool:

I think its a total misconception to say a club always bottles semi finals, the better clubs are in more semi finals therefore the coin falls in their favour more times. There are so many factors in football that its lazy and boring to say bottle. In Neville time as a player Spurs were in the whole crap, thats why we didnt win things, had nothing to do with bottle, having to roll up utter dross like that Italian left back killed us.
 
I disagree with you here. I don't think that Parker ever played for us as a real out and out holding midfielder. He was primarily defensive minded but still had license to get forward when sensible, Modric would then drop in to cover (as I would imagine instructed by the manager and as is sensible). Harry's Spurs team was fantastic to watch. We played brilliant, attacking football, generally always taking the game to the opposition. That was the way that we played because we had a bunch of excellent attacking footballers. However if you think back to our away game in Milan, Redknapp also showed that he could set up a team to defend deep and play purely on the counter.

First half a season Parker played almost exclusively in our half, didnt venture upfield, didnt try any ambitious passes or runs. He sat in front of the defence and went after anything that crossed that halfway line like a rabid Jack Russell. And in this capacity he was magnificent, and in turn allowed the whole team to play freely. The like of Modric working wonders in the middle 3rd, Walker/Rose/Ekotto bombing ahead etc.

That version of Parker didnt last too long though, and after than half a season or so he started thinking he really should be more like Steven Gerrard. And in doing so he fudged the balance of the side, and compromised players far superior to him like Modric.

This was a team with no predetermined strategy, shape, ethic - call it what you will. As Scara said, Rednapp was all about letting players play their game.

He did on a few occasions actively manage more, Inter as you say. Though in a similar vein Arsenal always spring to mind first. In those early encounters with them Redknapp(? - Bond maybe?) very specifically had the team sit narrow and deep, allow them the ball anywhere in their half or wide (they were brick from wide positions) and then hit them on the break. Worked a treat.

Those occasions were very much the exception though, and not the rule.

This isnt me trying to slag Redknapp off, its just his tenure as I saw it. Some good football, from some great players, and some fantastic times. But, ultimately, a sense of frustration at a lack of development over time.

As I said, I think he reached his limit, the club didnt, and by the time he went (for whatever reason) it was about right that he go.
 
I think its a total misconception to say a club always bottles semi finals, the better clubs are in more semi finals therefore the coin falls in their favour more times. There are so many factors in football that its lazy and boring to say bottle. In Neville time as a player Spurs were in the whole crap, thats why we didnt win things, had nothing to do with bottle, having to roll up utter dross like that Italian left back killed us.

You are partly right that in Neville's time we were utter crap; however, if you look back at our FA Cup semi-final record wee have bottled quite a few imo:

1992/93 - 0-1 loss to Arsenal; coin toss on who would win; we did play well but Arsenal seemed to have more stamina in the latter part of that game
1994/95 - 1-4 loss to Everton; no question we did bottle this one; Everton were way below us in the table at the time and we were clear favourites
1998/99 - 0-2 loss AET; not bottled in or of itself, 50-50 opponent at the time, but a pattern is showing now...
2000/01 - 1-2 loss to Arsenal; we didn't bottle this, we were just lucky that Arsenal didn't have their finishing boots on as it could/should have been a landslide given how much better they were and how much we were dominated
2009/10 - 0-2 loss to Portsmouth AET; absolutely we bottled this. No excuse for losing to that shower who were being relegated
2011/12 - 1-5 loss to Chelsea; we played well, but in the end their superior "game management" and "experience" killed us; despite the shocking decision to give Mata that goal that made it 2-0 the game epitomised Redknapp's in-game management at the sharp end vs the top teams and Chelski were below their usual standards that season...but we know what happened later that season:mad:
2016/17 - 2-4 loss to Chelsea; hmmm, small details...they had re-enforcements on the bench that made a difference; However little details again: Alderwiereld tackle to concede the early free-kick that Willian scored from and did Lloris cover himself in glory in trying to save it? Then Son at LB?? It's the whole game-management at key times that often kills us (why not stay in the game keep it tight and not concede after five bleeping minutes!!)
2017/18 - 1-2 loss to Man Unted; no question we bottled this one after a great start...i'm looking especially at you Mousa Dembele and you Michel Vorm....

So all in all, difficult to totally argue against the 'FA Cup semi-final bottlers tag'...
 
Fair enough, can't believe they finished 13th. I went to that game and never felt like we were going to win it. They had Shearer and he made a huge difference. Memory plays tricks.
 
Fair enough, can't believe they finished 13th. I went to that game and never felt like we were going to win it. They had Shearer and he made a huge difference. Memory plays tricks.

They certainly had more potent weapons up front that's for sure; between Iversen, Ferdinand and Armstrong we had relatively woeful finishers at the time
 
:D

Did AVB fudge your dog or do you just not like intelligent people in football?

I find this slavish love of all things dumbed down and traditional in football peculiar in someone as apparently intelligent as you.
The only thing AVB fudged is our team. He did manage to cure my insomnia problem though.

I have no problem with intelligent people, quite the opposite in fact. However I am also not one to be taken in by the Emperor's New Clothes.

I love Pochettino as a manager. I think he is awesome. I simply fail to see how anyone could rate AVB based on his time at Spurs.
 
I went to Old Trafford to watch that and we were bad!
Me too. I stayed in Manchester the night before and went to Sankey Soap and then on from there to an after party the next morning, so the memory of the match is somewhat blurry. I think I remember some sort of (perhaps?) Shearer handball controversy over one of the goals, but also that it probably made no difference to the outcome. Ah the man in the raincoat days.... we were almost as bad to watch as we were under AVB.
 
Me too. I stayed in Manchester the night before and went to Sankey Soap and then on from there to an after party the next morning, so the memory of the match is somewhat blurry. I think I remember some sort of (perhaps?) Shearer handball controversy over one of the goals, but also that it probably made no difference to the outcome. Ah the man in the raincoat days.... we were almost as bad to watch as we were under AVB.
I have a vague memory of Shearer with his hand in the air... not sure whether he was saluting a goal, claiming offside or handballing a long punt through from which the Toon scored. Just remember it took me 8 bloody hours to drive home!
 
:D

Did AVB fudge your dog or do you just not like intelligent people in football?

I find this slavish love of all things dumbed down and traditional in football peculiar in someone as apparently intelligent as you.

What's Avb doing in football now?
 
What's Avb doing in football now?
Precisely what he wants to, I believe. Don't think the plan ever was to do it long term.

Redknapp, on the other hand, is having quite the unlikely success in the property market. Only recently he had an incredible stroke of luck - a listed building he had no consent on just happened to burn down. He rebuilt and has now sold it as retirement flats for a huge profit.

Almost as lucky as an aging Chinbonda must have felt getting a contract at Spurs when they already had enough right backs to fill an entire defence.
 
The only thing AVB fudged is our team. He did manage to cure my insomnia problem though.

I have no problem with intelligent people, quite the opposite in fact. However I am also not one to be taken in by the Emperor's New Clothes.

I love Pochettino as a manager. I think he is awesome. I simply fail to see how anyone could rate AVB based on his time at Spurs.

Redknapp was too loose and free with the team. Just let them play.

AVB, with his tactical plan and an actual structure to the team, was precisely what the doctor ordered.

Until it turned out he could not stomach ANYTHING outside of that structure, and his rigidity suffocated the side.

Poch, for me, has the perfect balance of the two. A very disciplined approach and structure, but one that supports players taking risks and encourages fluidity.
 
Redknapp was too loose and free with the team. Just let them play.

AVB, with his tactical plan and an actual structure to the team, was precisely what the doctor ordered.

Until it turned out he could not stomach ANYTHING outside of that structure, and his rigidity suffocated the side.

Poch, for me, has the perfect balance of the two. A very disciplined approach and structure, but one that supports players taking risks and encourages fluidity.
Precisely this. The team was so short on discipline I don't think many managers could have repaired us the way AVB did. Poch, as perfect for us as he is right now, almost certainly couldn't have.

The fact that it didn't work out over the longer term is partly down to the rigidity upon which he insisted, but also heavily down to us not properly removing all the diseased roots of Redknapp's tenure when we should have. Aspects of that old boys' club still remained and started the rot from the inside again.
 
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