Moussa Sissoko

[milo]

It really is. It’s a tired, boring trope. He isn’t the best footballer we have, but his ability is exaggerated to a negative extreme.

The thing about having someone like him in a ‘possession side’ is that it makes us more difficult to counter. To have a team full of Winks’s would mean that it’s easier to break our lines because if we don’t play the perfect football, the opposition will get through. The amount of times Sissoko shuts down an attack by using his physicality to cover more space than anyone else could is actually quite large. Not to mention his tactical discipline and fitness, which enable him to stop these things happening before they occur. By virtue of his physicality, we can actually be more expansive and more unpredictable.

He’s also clocked up plenty of assists, and plenty of good performances in important games for us to the point that we should be long since past the ‘he’s not a footballer’ rubbish. I think with everyone else fit, he’s N’Dombele’s understudy. But there’s two things that should just be done once and for all. #1 is that he doesn’t use the ball well or is incapable of doing so. #2 is that his value to the team almost doesn’t count because his exceptional strengths are physical and tactical.

It's not a boring trope, it is discussing the strengths and weaknesses of our side. I've been pretty supportive of Sissoko and have frequently posted about the improvements in his performances last season but you have to acknowledge that he is one of the weaker players in our team and the signings this summer seem to suggest that the manager thinks this is an area where we can improve too.

No one is talking about a team of Winks. The player who Sissoko replaced in the side last season had an entirely different skill set to Winks but was a significantly better footballer than Sissoko.

I recognise Sissoko's physicality and that it is a useful asset. I hope that Ndombele can bring this to the team but also have an eye for a pass.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Ah here. The answer can't always be "well it's right because Poch says so". If so, there's no point having a message board, we all just agree with whatever Poch decides. I'm sure there is no possible way we could have been better than Villa in the first half yesterday so...

Although I will agree, Scara is a smug, know it all clam.

No it isn't... but on the one hand we have a successful coach - universally acclaimed for his tactical nous - starts Sissoko week in week out, and plays him the whole game through, and gets results (top 4, CL final).... which therefore infers that he sees a value in that decision. It doesn't mean that Poch does not make mistakes. Yesterday's first half was one of them; however he addressed his own admitted mistake by a tactical switch which did not involve hauling off Sissoko but switching him to the position which is synch with his strengths.

On the other we have a group of posters whose knowledge of football at best extends to a Sunday league game in the park. who have been ridiculing the player since the day he signed. They seem to claim that a coach of Poch's abilities can, by some unexplained reason (maybe insanity), continue to pick a poor player week in week out without seeing the mistake that he is consistently doing and - crucially - get results in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

So the question asks itself: Is Sissoko's place in the team because he brings qualities that benefit the team (even though they may not be those his critics want to see) and therefore have been crucial to last season's success... or is it because of Poch's consistent and persistent incompetence in choosing the best starting eleven?

In such divergent situations, Occam's razor is useful tool to establish veracity. So tell me, all things being equal, which is the simplest explanation of the two? The razor dictates that it is usually the correct one....

 

[scaramanga]

No it isn't... but on the one hand we have a successful coach - universally acclaimed for his tactical nous - starts Sissoko week in week out, and plays him the whole game through, and gets results (top 4, CL final).... which therefore infers that he sees a value in that decision. It doesn't mean that Poch does not make mistakes. Yesterday's first half was one of them; however he addressed his own admitted mistake by a tactical switch which did not involve hauling off Sissoko but switching him to the position which is synch with his strengths.

On the other we have a group of posters whose knowledge of football at best extends to a Sunday league game in the park. who have been ridiculing the player since the day he signed. They seem to claim that a coach of Poch's abilities can, by some unexplained reason (maybe insanity), continue to pick a poor player week in week out without seeing the mistake that he is consistently doing and - crucially - get results in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

So the question asks itself: Is Sissoko's place in the team because he brings qualities that benefit the team (even though they may not be those his critics want to see) and therefore have been crucial to last season's success... or is it because of Poch's consistent and persistent incompetence in choosing the best starting eleven?

In such divergent situations, Occam's razor is useful tool to establish veracity. So tell me, all things being equal, which is the simplest explanation of the two? The razor dictates that it is usually the correct one....

Yet within 5 minutes everyone here could see that Poch had the tactics and formation wrong. It took him about 70 mins to fix it, and even then he subbed off the wrong player.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

That player was playing along side him yesterday. Once Son and Dele are back, Lo Celso is integrated and if Eriksen stays, the team is going to look very different. It is hard to see a starting place for Sissoko if everyone is available.

So if he does start when most of the midfield is fit, would you be willing to accept he is not "one of the weaker players in our team"?

 

[Maltese Falcon]

It's nothing to do with people's online reputation. How can you watch the game see attack after attack break down at Sissoko's feet and accept it.
"It's not his game." He's not a centre half. He doesn't play as a defensively midfielder. His role to burst forward with the ball.

How can you watch the game and see Lamela lose ball after ball and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Sanchez bullied by a rookie centre forward and miss a simple high ball, leading to a ridiculous goal and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Rose go AWOL and leave an acre of space behind him for the opposition to exploit, allowing and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Moura trying to take on player after player and never getting the beating of even one of them?

See? The boot fits just as well on the other foot... the difference being that these are the day jobs of these four players whereas scoring isn't Sissoko's

He created an opportunity initially by running with it but instead of making a delivery, he looks around, pretends no one is home and leaves an annoying little missed delivery card in the letterbox. The only way to reliably get the ball off him is to come to him waving the card so he can make his safe 5 yard pass. It's either that or he lobs it randomly in the garden somewhere.

So what exactly did Kane write on the delivery card for the assist that Sissoko provided him?

And the tired agrument is the "Poch knows" flimflam. If Poch really rated him he wouldn't have bought two players to do his job better than him in Ndombele and Lo Celso

You are making assumptions... Time will tell who loses his place from Ndombele's signing and who will play alongside him. Why don't we get back to the discussion in a couple of months time?

 

[milo]

So if he does start when most of the midfield is fit, would you be willing to accept he is not "one of the weaker players in our team"?

If he's regularly starting after Christmas and we have a fit squad, I'll accept that the manager has a different view of him than me.

Do you see him being selected ahead of Ndombele?

 

[Maltese Falcon]

...he subbed off the wrong player.

...which resulted in us changing the game on its head and turning defeat into victory. But seemingly even that is now no longer enough...

 

[Maltese Falcon]

If he's regularly starting after Christmas and we have a fit squad, I'll accept that the manager has a different view of him than me.

Do you see him being selected ahead of Ndombele?

No - but I suspect that we will see yesterday's ending formation used quite regularly with a pivot of NDombele and Sissoko and having Lo Celso or Eriksen in a free role in front of them.

Many people have assumed that NDombele was brought in to replace Sissoko but I have a suspicion that it may be Winks who will find his place in jeopardy, especially if he persists in the slow predictable game he played yesterday. Ironically Sissoko gets slated for horizontal 5 yard balls but, other than a few looping diagonal balls to the full backs which the opposition can easily read and close down, that is all Winks did yesterday.

Which is why Poch hauled him off and despite what scara says that was the right decision and the result confirms it.

 

[milo]

No - but I suspect that we will see yesterday's ending formation used quite regularly with a pivot of NDombele and Sissoko and having Lo Celso or Eriksen in a free role in front of them.

Many people have assumed that NDombele was bought in to replace Sissoko but I have a suspicion that it may be Winks who will find his place in jeopardy, especially if he persists in the slow predictable game he played yesterday. Ironically Sissoko gets slated for horizontal 5 yard balls but, other than a few looping diagonal balls to the full backs which the opposition can easily read and close down, that is all Winks did yesterday.

Which is why Poch hauled him off and despite what scara says that was the right decision and the result confirms it.

We didn't play a pivot of Sissoko and Ndombele yesterday. We played them either side and advanced of Winks. When Eriksen came on Sissoko moved to an advanced right position.

How we line up will depend a lot on if Eriksen stays and how long it takes Lo Celso to settle. I could see Lo Celso replacing Sissoko in our first choice 4-3-3 and I cannot see Sissoko regularly picked ahead of Ndombele if we line up 4-2-3-1.

Poch tends to experiment in the first few months of the season and then settle on his strongest 11 and the best formation to accommodate them. I find it hard to see Sissoko being in that unless we have injuries or the new players flop.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yet within 5 minutes everyone here could see that Poch had the tactics and formation wrong. It took him about 70 mins to fix it, and even then he subbed off the wrong player.

I didn’t think that Sissoko had a good game on Saturday (indeed I felt that only KWP and Eriksen did have good games) but Pochettino definitely subbed off the right player for Eriksen. Winks had so much time and space but did nothing with that, always playing safe passes. As soon as Eriksen came on our whole tempo changed.

 

[Modric THFC]

How can you watch the game and see Lamela lose ball after ball and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Sanchez bullied by a rookie centre forward and miss a simple high ball, leading to a ridiculous goal and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Rose go AWOL and leave an acre of space behind him for the opposition to exploit, allowing and accept it? How can you watch the game and see Moura trying to take on player after player and never getting the beating of even one of them?

See? The boot fits just as well on the other foot... the difference being that these are the day jobs of these four players whereas scoring isn't Sissoko's

So what exactly did Kane write on the delivery card for the assist that Sissoko provided him?

You are making assumptions... Time will tell who loses his place from Ndombele's signing and who will play alongside him. Why don't we get back to the discussion in a couple of months time?

As I said above somewhere Moura and Lamela were brick yesterday. But this isn't their thread. I'm absolutely done with Lamela tbh after a good pre season he's back to running into defenders with the ball.

That is Sissoko's role ffs. He was playing a the right of a midfield diamond and then the right wing.

Just because he is huge doesnt mean he is playing a defensive midfielder or a centre back.

You are all judging some on some special Btec scale as if he is Sol Campbell making a run up the pitch from central defence with the ball.

Kane wrote "I'm 7 yards to your left and will be waiting when you pass it behind me instead of into my path."

 

[milo]

I didn’t think that Sissoko had a good game on Saturday (indeed I felt that only KWP and Eriksen did have good games) but Pochettino definitely subbed off the right player for Eriksen. Winks had so much time and space but did nothing with that, always playing safe passes. As soon as Eriksen came on our whole temp changed.

Winks picked up a knock

 

[Finney Is Back]

Winks picked up a knock

so perhaps we got lucky with that sub then? He had to be replaced though, you cannot have a player who is effectively spare having no impact on your attacking play.

 

[milo]

so perhaps we got lucky with that sub then? He had to be replaced though, you cannot have a player who is effectively spare having no impact on your attacking play.

Poch did the same as he did countless times last season. Pushed the team up and got Rose to tuck in. Eriksen and Ndombele cover the centre circle to the edge of the box. I have no arguments with the switch, Eriksen added a lot more energy to the side but I think that we improved in the first 15 minutes of the second half too.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

We didn't play a pivot of Sissoko and Ndombele yesterday. We played them either side and advanced of Winks. When Eriksen came on Sissoko moved to an advanced right position.

How we line up will depend a lot on if Eriksen stays and how long it takes Lo Celso to settle. I could see Lo Celso replacing Sissoko in our first choice 4-3-3 and I cannot see Sissoko regularly picked ahead of Ndombele if we line up 4-2-3-1.

Poch tends to experiment in the first few months of the season and then settle on his strongest 11 and the best formation to accommodate them. I find it hard to see Sissoko being in that unless we have injuries or the new players flop.

I beg to differ. When Eriksen came in, what I saw was Sissoko becoming the most withdrawn central midfielder with NDombele just to them left of him and Eriksen roaming at his pleasure. Have you seen Lo Celso play? I suspect that he will be nowhere near Sissoko's patch but more advance in place of Eriksen (if he leaves) and definitely will consign Lamela to the bench, where he belongs.

 

[milo]

As I said above somewhere Moura and Lamela were brick yesterday. But this isn't their thread. I'm absolutely done with Lamela tbh after a good pre season he's back to running into defenders with the ball.

That is Sissoko's role ffs. He was playing a the right of a midfield diamond and then the right wing.

Just because he is huge doesnt mean he is playing a defensive midfielder or a centre back.

You are all judging some on some special Btec scale as if he is Sol Campbell making a run up the pitch from central defence with the ball.

Kane wrote "I'm 7 yards to your left and will be waiting when you pass it behind me instead of into my path."

One thing about moving Sissoko out advanced right when Eriksen came on. A lot of Villa's breaks were coming down the right, so he might've been looking to snub these out.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I beg to differ. When Eriksen came in, what I saw was Sissoko becoming the most withdrawn central midfielder with NDombele just to them left of him and Eriksen roaming at his pleasure. Have you seen Lo Celso play? I suspect that he will be nowhere near Sissoko's patch but more advance in place of Eriksen (if he leaves) and definitely will consign Lamela to the bench, where he belongs.

I think we should all forget about ‘first choice’. Other than Kane and Lloris I think every position in the team is up for grabs. I think we’ll see a lot more rotation this year which hopefully will keep us fresher and allow us to maintain good performances later in the season if we have injuries.

 

[billyiddo]

Sissoko played on the right when Eriksen came on

 

[milo]

I beg to differ. When Eriksen came in, what I saw was Sissoko becoming the most withdrawn central midfielder with NDombele just to them left of him and Eriksen roaming at his pleasure. Have you seen Lo Celso play? I suspect that he will be nowhere near Sissoko's patch but more advance in place of Eriksen (if he leaves) and definitely will consign Lamela to the bench, where he belongs.

I'll dig out the graphics showing Sissoko's touches of the ball for the last 30 minutes that I posted last night. Sissoko was wide right.

Lo Celso can play #8 or #10. I don't see him playing at the base of midfield in a 4-2-3-1 often but I can see him and Ndombele playing in front of Winks in a 3.

 

[milo]

I'll dig out the graphics showing Sissoko's touches of the ball for the last 30 minutes that I posted last night. Sissoko was wide right.

Lo Celso can play #8 or #10. I don't see him playing at the base of midfield in a 4-2-3-1 often but I can see him and Ndombele playing in front of Winks in a 3.

@Maltese Falcon

These are Sissoko's touches between Erksen coming on and Ndomble going off

These are Eriksen's during the same period

And Ndombele's