Milos Veljkovic

[Gutter Boy]

There's very little difference in quality between about the bottom 10 of the EPL and the top 12 of the championship.

For a defender in particular, going to play for whipping boys won't help him (and the manager will probably default to old hands in those situations anyway)

 

[Finney Is Back]

There's very little difference in quality between about the bottom 10 of the EPL and the top 12 of the championship.

For a defender in particular, going to play for whipping boys won't help him (and the manager will probably default to old hands in those situations anyway)

How on earth have you come up with that view? There is a huge difference, hence why the 3 promoted clubs are generally always the favourites to go straight back down. Bear in mind that they usually considerably strengthen and still see it as an achievement just to avoid relegation.

In the Championship you rarely come up against a current international striker. In the PL you come up against one in almost every game.

 

[DublinSpur]

I've seen very little of Veljkovic in a Spurs shirt, but I have seen him play more than half a dozen times (on TV) for Serbian 'Under' teams (my wife's from that part of the world, so Serbia have been the team I've supported in the recent youth tournaments - thanks to Ireland not qualifying). Anyway; the point being that he has been comfortably the best man on the pitch in almost every game I've watched.

Sure, U20 and U21 isn't premier league level, but being the stand-out player in the team that wins the U20 World Cup isn't irrelevant either. He's composed on the ball for his age, a great passer and his positional sense is excellent. He actually reminds me a fair bit of Vertonghen and I think he has the potential to be at least as good as the Belgian.

Of course, he might never fulfil that potential, but I'd like to keep him at Spurs a while longer just in case. I really would... he has something about him that you don't see in many young defenders.

That said, if Pochettino doesn't rate him (though I'd love to know what I'm not seeing) then it's obviously in the player's best interests to move on. He's at that point in his development where he needs to start playing regular first team football. My ideal scenario: he signs a new deal and spends next season on loan. A decision can be made to bring him into the first team (or sell him) at that point.

He's too young and too full of potential to let go just yet.

 

[Jordinho]

We're not letting him go, his contract is expiring. I he (or rather his agent) thinks he should be paid the same as regular first team members, then he might as well fudge off for all I care. If he thinks he should be playing more, all he has to do is sign a new contract and go on loan somewhere.

Is he better than Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Dier? No
Is he better than our other CMs? No
Should he be on the bench ahead of Wimmer or even Fazio? No

He's no more than a last resort for us at the moment. I think it's pretty close between him and CCV for getting some cup action if possible.

We are not in a position to give him regular game time and unless he willingly drops down a division in the summer, that's what will happen no matter where he goes.

 

[DubaiSpur]

We're not letting him go, his contract is expiring. I he (or rather his agent) thinks he should be paid the same as regular first team members, then he might as well fudge off for all I care. If he thinks he should be playing more, all he has to do is sign a new contract and go on loan somewhere.

Is he better than Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Dier? No
Is he better than our other CMs? No
Should he be on the bench ahead of Wimmer or even Fazio? No

He's no more than a last resort for us at the moment. I think it's pretty close between him and CCV for getting some cup action if possible.

We are not in a position to give him regular game time and unless he willingly drops down a division in the summer, that's what will happen no matter where he goes.

That's all true, but I'm still a bit....well, not disappointed, but slightly put off by him leaving. Especially since he'd fill a gap that we presently have, that of a back-up for Dier (dedicated defensive back-up, I mean) who can also slot into the CB slot if Fazio leaves and CCV isn't ready yet.

 

[parklane1]

We're not letting him go, his contract is expiring. I he (or rather his agent) thinks he should be paid the same as regular first team members, then he might as well fudge off for all I care. If he thinks he should be playing more, all he has to do is sign a new contract and go on loan somewhere.

Is he better than Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Dier? No
Is he better than our other CMs? No
Should he be on the bench ahead of Wimmer or even Fazio? No

He's no more than a last resort for us at the moment. I think it's pretty close between him and CCV for getting some cup action if possible.

We are not in a position to give him regular game time and unless he willingly drops down a division in the summer, that's what will happen no matter where he goes.

Pretty much sums it up for me as well.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

If he thinks he should be playing more, all he has to do is sign a new contract and go on loan somewhere.

Why do you feel he should agree to a new contract before going out on loan? Nathan Oduwa is on loan at Rangers and his contract expires at the end of this season

 

[milo]

There's very little difference in quality between about the bottom 10 of the EPL and the top 12 of the championship.

For a defender in particular, going to play for whipping boys won't help him (and the manager will probably default to old hands in those situations anyway)

That's nonsense GB, the gulf between the Premier League and Championship is huge.

 

[Jordinho]

Why do you feel he should agree to a new contract before going out on loan? Nathan Oduwa is on loan at Rangers and his contract expires at the end of this season

Whatever our plans are for Oduwa, that's a separate situation. We might have something lined up already contract wise, none of us know. We were trying to get Veljkovic at loan at the start of the season as well. At this point though, with six months left, why should we do anything for him?

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Should he be on the bench ahead of Wimmer or even Fazio? No

Ahead of Wimmer? No, I am inclined to agree with you. but Fazio is a player I have no faith in and I would give this kid a run-out instead

 

[Jordinho]

Ahead of Wimmer? No, I am inclined to agree with you. but Fazio is a player I have no faith in and I would give this kid a run-out instead

That's just your personal opinion though. Most managers would rather play an experienced international than an untried youngster.

 

[billyiddo]

Ahead of Wimmer? No, I am inclined to agree with you. but Fazio is a player I have no faith in and I would give this kid a run-out instead

Verts and Alder get injured in a hypothetical scenario and we're away to a tough opposition - you'd overlook the experience of Fazio and pair Wimmer with an untested u21s player?

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Whatever our plans are for Oduwa, that's a separate situation. We might have something lined up already contract wise, none of us know. We were trying to get Veljkovic at loan at the start of the season as well. At this point though, with six months left, why should we do anything for him?

Well if the player has made up his mind to leave then I would either let him go in January for a nominal fee or loan him out and have someone else pick up his wages.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

That's just your personal opinion though. Most managers would rather play an experienced international than an untried youngster.

However Poch has proved he is not most managers and that he has and would give young players a chance ahead of more experienced players.

I actually think it is a simple case of Poch himself not being convinced about Milos.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Verts and Alder get injured in a hypothetical scenario and we're away to a tough opposition - you'd overlook the experience of Fazio and pair Wimmer with an untested u21s player?

As I said I rate Wimmer, it is Fazio I have no faith in. And because I have so little faith in Fazio I would have given Milos a run out in the Europa Cup to assess him. Heck, worst case scenario as an emergency I would play Wimmer and Dier if the two Belgians were out injured.

 

[DublinSpur]

That's just your personal opinion though. Most managers would rather play an experienced international than an untried youngster.

Thankfully Pochettino isn't "most managers" and clearly doesn't see things that way. If he did, then Dier and Alli would be either warming our bench or out on loan somewhere.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Veljkovic should be part of our first eleven. Right now we have an incredible centre-back pairing, and Dier has made the defensive midfield role his own. Nobody wants to change that.

What the Veljkovic fans (like me) are saying is that he's a very impressive defensive player for his age. He has the potential to be challenging Vertonghen and Dier in 2 or 3 years time. And the potential to overtake Fazio and Wimmer as back-up in less time than that. He may not fulfil that potential; but assuming his demands aren't absurd (if they are, then that's a different thing... but there's no evidence either way) then it would be great if we could agree a new contract with him and have Spurs manage his development (whether that's a temporary loan or whatever) in the hope we get the best out of him.

 

[Jordinho]

Thankfully Pochettino isn't "most managers" and clearly doesn't see things that way. If he did, then Dier and Alli would be either warming our bench or out on loan somewhere.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Veljkovic should be part of our first eleven. Right now we have an incredible centre-back pairing, and Dier has made the defensive midfield role his own. Nobody wants to change that.

What the Veljkovic fans (like me) are saying is that he's a very impressive defensive player for his age. He has the potential to be challenging Vertonghen and Dier in 2 or 3 years time. And the potential to overtake Fazio and Wimmer as back-up in less time than that. He may not fulfil that potential; but assuming his demands aren't absurd (if they are, then that's a different thing... but there's no evidence either way) then it would be great if we could agree a new contract with him and have Spurs manage his development (whether that's a temporary loan or whatever) in the hope we get the best out of him.

That's just what I'm saying, he needs a loan somewhere, but if he won't sign a new contract then the club won't bother with making that happen. Poch has clearly not seen anything from him to promote him ahead of our more senior CBs.

I do think this is just another case of fans overrating a player they don't really know much about.

 

[DublinSpur]

I do think this is just another case of fans overrating a player they don't really know much about.

Well, as I've said; I have seen him 6 or 7 times - each time paying close attention to his individual contribution. In my view, that's enough to get a sense of a player and whether he has potential (not if he'll fulfil that potential, but whether or not it's there). You might disagree, and that's fair enough. Though out of interest; how many games do you feel is enough to start getting a sense of the quality of a player?

Based on the games I have seen, there are very few current 19-20 year old defensive players (that I'm aware of) in his class. And the club should work hard to hold onto such players.

 

[Jordinho]

Well, as I've said; I have seen him 6 or 7 times - each time paying close attention to his individual contribution. In my view, that's enough to get a sense of a player and whether he has potential (not if he'll fulfil that potential, but whether or not it's there). You might disagree, and that's fair enough. Though out of interest; how many games do you feel is enough to start getting a sense of the quality of a player?

Based on the games I have seen, there are very few current 19-20 year old defensive players (that I'm aware of) in his class. And the club should work hard to hold onto such players.

Sometimes you can see it straight away, other times not. There's no set number.

It's either about money, in which case the club is right and he is wrong, or playing time, which isn't going to be much different at any other big(ish) club. If he truly is something special or just likely to become a good PL quality player, then of course the club will have tried its hardest to keep him. I think this where I struggle. Are we really letting a top talent slip away without even trying to keep him? I highly doubt it.

 

[Modric THFC]

That's just what I'm saying, he needs a loan somewhere, but if he won't sign a new contract then the club won't bother with making that happen. Poch has clearly not seen anything from him to promote him ahead of our more senior CBs.

I do think this is just another case of fans overrating a player they don't really know much about.

Do you not think he's better option than Winks coming on for Dier?

Apart from Mason, Poch hasn't pushed through our academy players.
14 minutes in all comps last season for Onomah, 3 for Winks, 4 for Veljkovic. This season its 28 minutes for Omomah and 14 for Winks.

Even fudging Redknapp gave Kane 290 minutes, Carroll 572 minutes and Fredricks 159 minutes in 11/12.
I do wonder whether if we went straight from AVB to Poch would Kane and Bentaleb ever have got a real chance? Or would we just have brought in more young players like Davies, N'Jie, Dier, Alli, Wimmer and Son.