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Michel Vorm

Shelfie said:
Good post Cotswold, but I notice despite your calming and informative comments, which I welcome by the way, you nevertheless point out 'if it was discovered that we conspired with Swansea to pretend we paid less for a player than we in fact paid, that might open us up to punishment.'

Lawyers love these type of cases, with 'intent', 'reading between the lines' etc up for 'interpretation'.
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I think you can see how difficult it would be to prove any formal agreement/conspiracy between Spurs and Swansea. Unless there is an email trail along the lines of "why don't we say this…", then Spurs' line will inevitably be 'Swansea told us they wanted a combined fee of X for these two players, we were happy with that and paid it, its a matter for them how they then settle their separate contractual agreement with Utrecht'. Difficult to argue against that, i'd say.
 
Cotswold said:
Understandably, there is quite a lot of misunderstanding re what our potential liability might be.
For the avoidance of doubt, we don't have any form of contract with Utrecht and therefore their only civil claims could be against Swansea (if they can prove Swansea acted in breach of contract). Utrecht can of course make a complaint to the powers that be about our role and if it was discovered that we conspired with Swansea to pretend we paid less for a player than we in fact paid, that might open us up to punishment. It would however be extremely difficult for it to be proved that we acted inappropriately - we are entitled to do whatever deal we like with Swansea - it is they (assuming Utrecht's lawyers inserted a specific clause regarding using best endeavours to only sell Vorm for his market value/best price achievable) who have the agreement with Utrecht and only they who will have benefitted if they have avoided paying money on to Utrecht. Difficult to see it being argued that the sum we paid for Vorm and Davies was other than market rate.
So i suspect this will either die a death or Swansea will get punished for apparent underselling. Id be staggered if we ended-up feeling any heat over it. Ultimately it demonstrates the farce of these sell-on agreements - they're not worth the paper on which they're written unless the terms make absolutely clear that the team in Swansea's position can only sell for a price deemed 'market value' by an independent appointed third party, must use beast endeavours to secure highest sum possible and cannot enter an agreement with another club which is structured in such a way as to try to avoid paying what is intended.
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Agreed.

I'm not worried about this kind of thing, it's the kind of thing Levy seems very capable of staying on top of. Other similar examples have been reported in the past and I can't remember any governing body stepping in even against the selling club.

I wonder more about how this, and other cases where the sell on fees are seemingly circumvented, will change the way we're wording clauses in our contracts when we sell players.
 
Cotswold said:
I think you can see how difficult it would be to prove any formal agreement/conspiracy between Spurs and Swansea. Unless there is an email trail along the lines of "why don't we say this…", then Spurs' line will inevitably be 'Swansea told us they wanted a combined fee of X for these two players, we were happy with that and paid it, its a matter for them how they then settle their separate contractual agreement with Utrecht'. Difficult to argue against that, i'd say.
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Agreed. We surely, I trust and hope, did the deal in such a way that is 'court/tribunal proof'. However, it won't stop the press having a feeding frenzy if they get their teeth into it. So far they've not been interested, but in time they may pick up on Vorm's absence and the Dutch article/Utrecht's claims.

For me, so much hinges on why Vorm isn't playing, and when he's going to start playing.
 
Rossi22 said:
Actually I think there is, kind of. As it's an obvious ploy to circumvent the rules it would end up with an independent panel assigning a fee to the player
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Never seen that mentioned or reported anywhere as far as I can remember.

Any source for this?

Shelfie said:
Good post Cotswold, but I notice despite your calming and informative comments, which I welcome by the way, you nevertheless point out 'if it was discovered that we conspired with Swansea to pretend we paid less for a player than we in fact paid, that might open us up to punishment.'

Lawyers love these type of cases, with 'intent', 'reading between the lines' etc up for 'interpretation'.
Click to expand...

Lawyers also love finding the best way to benefit their clients in contract disputes. Levy knows a lawyer or two and him and Baldini are very experienced in transfer dealings.

Not sure how much intent could even matter even if proved unless there are rules or regulations from some football association we have broken.
 
the only way we can be dragged into this is if we have broken the transfer rules generally, in which case we would be in bother whether Utrecht complained or not

I find it very hard to believe levy would do such a thing

vorms selection situation is probably irrelevant as well, we have his registration now as far as UEFA are concerned, I don't see how him playing for us could jeopardise anything, let's also not forget that our squad has Lloris, one of the best keepers in the pl, and Friedel, one of the best keepers in the pl, form and fitness are the Occam's razor answer
 
galeforce said:
the only way we can be dragged into this is if we have broken the transfer rules generally, in which case we would be in bother whether Utrecht complained or not

I find it very hard to believe levy would do such a thing

vorms selection situation is probably irrelevant as well, we have his registration now as far as UEFA are concerned, I don't see how him playing for us could jeopardise anything, let's also not forget that our squad has Lloris, one of the best keepers in the pl, and Friedel, one of the best keepers in the pl, form and fitness are the Occam's razor answer
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Have to disagree with his. Usually I'm a big fan of Occam and his razor and am definitely not one for conspiracy theories, but for me Brad is not one of the Prem's best keepers. I admire Brad so much, but he is in decline understandably at this age, Vorm, for me, is the back up, or should be. Hence my concerns, if, of course, Brad is still seen as 'first reserve' then fair enough, nowt to worry about.
 
Vorms a very good keeper as well, I don't mean to discredit him, but we have an embarrassment of riches in nets, other than Chelsea and the Manchester and Liverpool clubs all 3 would probably be first choice at every other club IMO.
 
galeforce said:
Vorms a very good keeper as well, I don't mean to discredit him, but we have an embarrassment of riches in nets, other than Chelsea and the Manchester and Liverpool clubs all 3 would probably be first choice at every other club IMO.
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Well Vorm wasn't number one at Swansea & I doubt that he'd get in the Villa team ahead of Guzan. I think they are decent keepers but let's not get carried away.
 
I take solace in the fact that Levy is nobodys mug. Hope Vorm is named as sub on Sunday and this is all put to rest.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I don't think it'll all be sorted that early. Vorm being registered with the EL squad would suit me.
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That assumes that there is anything to sort.

Poch has said that Vorm is on a specific training programme - which suggests that he may have been suffering from an injury.

Seems to me that those getting worried are ignoring the simplest and most obvious reason for his absence.
 
Good game today for the clean sheet. Vorm's distribution is miles ahead of Lloris, and he communicates well with the defence, shouting for the fullbacks to collect the ball, and even calling out "Fazio" for not going to help close down a shot.

Got down very well to stop at least 3 strikes at either ends of the goal.

Happy we got him, hope he stays happy at #2.
 
Still a bit strange why he'd accept being a No.2 for an entire year just on the assumption that Hugo leaves next summer. He's definitely talented enough to be first-choice elsewhere.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Still a bit strange why he'd accept being a No.2 for an entire year just on the assumption that Hugo leaves next summer. He's definitely talented enough to be first-choice elsewhere.
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Probably knew he would get cup games, a pay raise and lets be clear, #2 at Spurs is a better profile than #2 at Swansea
 
Raziel said:
Probably knew he would get cup games, a pay raise and lets be clear, #2 at Spurs is a better profile than #2 at Swansea
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I thought he was first-choice at Swansea? That Tremmel fella certainly didn't look too convincing when we played them: I'd have imagined that Vorm would have sealed a place against him if he'd stayed.

Otherwise, yeah, can't argue your other points: he'll finish the season with at least 15 games and a hefty wage packet, so the move won't have worked out too badly for him, whatever happens.
 
"A lot of things happen in football," said Worm, ahead of Sunday's reunion with Swansea at Liberty Stadium. "You make decisions and only when my career is finished will I know if it was the right decision or not.

"When I left Utrecht for Swansea, people asked me why I was going there because they were going down. Well look where they are now.

"They are an established Premier League club. It's hard to say whether I have made the right decision or not. Only time will tell.

"Hugo is doing very well, which also makes it easier to accept than if your competitor is not doing quite so well.

"But for me the only thing that matters is to keep fit and make sure Hugo feels I am at his back.

"The only way I can do that is by training well and when I get the chance to play make sure I do the best I can. I think in the games I have played I have done well and I am satisfied with my work."

Worm added: "I took my decision to leave and I am proud to play for Tottenham.

"People don't always understand the choices you make in football, but I am very happy to be here. Sometimes you need new challenges and want to see how it is at a bigger club."

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/vorm-very-happy-tottenham
 
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