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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Aw, don't be so grumpy. Here, have this beautiful, antique, 18th century Japanese haiku...
View attachment 5892
Courtesy of Bill Madrid, over at TFC. Penny for thine thoughts.
Little things amuse little minds.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Little things amuse little minds.
Refrain from talking about your masturbatory habits, please - this is a kid-friendly forum.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
Splitter.Fine, fine.
ENIC Ite Domum
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
Our current situation has all been explained before.
imcallingbullsh*t
Steven Caulker
A)
We have chosen a method of trying to build infrastructure and a secure base, to stop becoming a cup every 10yrs club. Is our model better than chelsea's, i would say yes in the long term.
Yes they have won a lot in 10yrs hence the long term argument, they currently have large debts to their owner, but are behind us again in the league,
Arsenal are a fair comparison, however they started from a higher base both on and off field than us, they are now also behind us, on the pitch with us close off the pitch
City - well are a law to their own
Liverpool are build on a historical success we never had
Utd - Same as lIverpool
I would say we are in a group of teams with, Forest, Leeds, Everton etc and even then thats flattering us, but we are in a group of teams with previous success, but in no way can say we are are a big team, but are the only ones who have managed to fight out of the pack in the new modern financial age.
B) its relevant in that you view spurs through a screen, its not a dig, if i was in your position my opinion would probably be more aligned to yours, getting up at 3am to watch games consistently (or whatever people have to do) is to be admired and i wouldn't totally belittle that. However thinking that its the same as being a ST holder or regularly going to games is not correct, foreign fans experience is not the same, just as those who go to away games is not the same as home games.
Some people watch the game from a sofa, that means they dont see the runs off the ball, but they see better analysis, each to their own, but the way you consume the game and the club will of course influence your viewpoint
HonorOakHotspur
David Kerslake
Aw, don't be so grumpy. Here, have this beautiful, antique, 18th century Japanese haiku...
View attachment 5892
Courtesy of Bill Madrid, over at TFC. Penny for thine thoughts.
Dear DubaiSpur,
Here are some of my thoughts...
Many years ago after suffering several years of utter dross and incompetence, I called Levy and Enic frauds, wanted them out, couldn't believe they continued to lie to us about the big stadium build, future plans, investment in the wrong areas, yada yada yada... However I started to give him a little credit when they actually delivered one of the best Training facilities in Europe if not the world, slowly over the years I have bought into the longer term strategy Levy and his crew have actually put together. Since then we have built what appears to be a fantasic boutique hotel (which generates increased commercial revenue) adjacent to the training complex and we are on the cusp of moving into a Stadium that will give as much "bragging rights" if not more than winning the league or FA Cup imho.
If they had not been investing and improving the infrastructure and simply extracting all the profits then I'd certainly understand where you are coming from and probably join you and "THE KNOBHEAD WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED who looks like Harry Hill" and his hoard (although I suspect he's simply created 10 alter-ego's to pad out his site's comments) but this is not the case...
Checkout the link below... Yes the graphic and commit refer to how close we have drawn to the Arses revenue which we know is a combination of us getting into the CL and them not. The impact is huge and if we continue this next year in the UCL with them in the UEL I can see us overhauling them in the not too distant future.
I also like the visbile revenue growth we see from Man$hitty and their Petro$$ considering we had the 2010/11 CL revenue stream that they didn't yet they could Pi$$ into the trough and it never stopped even to this day primarly through dodgy deals. Granted their World Model of establishing $hitty branded feeder clubs all over the world has helped with additional revenue streams (player transfers)...
So no matter how much you and Bill Madrid or the despisable so called baldy spurs fan with his bile say. We owe Levy more than you can probably imagine.
For me.. The legacy Levy will leave is equal to or greater than any other Chairman in the EPL era and if we start to accumulate the silverware in our shiny new stadium then he becomes greater
In 10 years time, my 12 year old son and his generation will be going to WHL and reap the greatest rewards
Oh and we have moved ourself into the European Elite despite not winning a trophy only the blind cannot see that
COYS!!!!!
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Okay - I appreciate the reasoned response. But by what measure? Trophies won? Or the lack of debt we would (presumably) incur during that time?
If it's trophies won, to match their post-2004 model, we would need to win, in the next decade or two....
5 league titles,
5 FA Cups,
3 League Cups,
1 Champions League and
1 Europa League,
which is a total we have not reached in our entire 136-year history, never mind in a decade or two.
So it must be the lack of debt we would have compared to theirs, which you mention. Well, the thing is, what does that debt ultimately mean? How many football clubs at this level are actually folded up because of debts to a philanthropic owner? Isn't it likelier that, in the event that the debt actually becomes a problem, Roman would just sell and recoup his losses, as opposed to actively try to fold up the club? I mean, it would get him more money. And if he tried folding up Chelsea over the debt they have to him, it would probably be literally opposed by everyone from the Mayor of London to Parliament itself.
So how much does that debt actually mean?
Agreed.
I agree, and I compare us to Arsenal a lot. In fact, I think we're copying their model, down to a tee. Problem is, their model hasn't been as successful as they imagined it would be. Will ours be different in that regard?
Actually agreed, and it's a novel view that I hadn't considered much. You tend to think of your own club as a big club, and its history as similarly glorious - we actually might not be all that big.
However, our model has lifted us from that group - would our model + more activist owners have lifted us *higher*? That's the crux of it. I don't deny that ENIC have done a relatively competent job in getting us this far over twenty long years, but
would a more activist owner have led to better than just rough competence?
Fair, mate. I just get a little annoyed when people make that point, as if we don't care as much or matter as much as fans in the UK do. But few can explain it as eloquently as you did there.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Fair enough, mate - I agree the stadium and training ground are great (the stadium will be bloody fantastic), and I've praised Levy for the stadium in particular multiple times in that thread.
They're definitely not frauds. They aren't, and I don't think I've ever argued that. But I have argued that they're just competent, and they run the club with the club's own money. My objection is that they have no real skin in the game, because all they do is manage the club semi-effectively without putting anything in themselves... and that they're content with the lowest-risk option all the time on the football side of things, even when the team sometimes badly needs a bit of risk (like now).
I really don't know who that is, tbh.
I think it might be Harry Hotspur? If so, I've never visited his site, and never will - I've heard enough about it to last me a lifetime.No arguments re: revenue. Our revenue is steadily growing, and will likely overhaul Arsenal's until they get back into the CL, at which point the roles will reverse. As I mentioned to @imcallingbullsh*t , we're copying their model, so we'll have similar finances considering the explosion in PL TV value in the post-2010 era.
But will that translate into investment in the team? I don't know if it will. My abiding fear is that ENIC will just use it to pay off the debt, and let us stagnate as our stars leave because we never win anything. Certainly, they've done that over the last year, and before that, they ran a 'zero net spend' policy for a full decade. The football side, as I said, seems secondary to them.
Emirates Marketing Project is run by a human rights-abusing Sheikh from a despotic country. They have ways to get around FFP. We're fully agreed there.
So no matter how much you and Bill Madrid or the despisable so called baldy spurs fan with his bile say. We owe Levy more than you can probably imagine.
For me.. The legacy Levy will leave is equal to or greater than any other Chairman in the EPL era and if we start to accumulate the silverware in our shiny new stadium then he becomes greater
I don't know what we owe him, to be honest. As mentioned, he has't put anything in (neither has Joe Lewis), but he's used the club's own money in a competent fashion over twenty years. He's guaranteed 250m or so when we're sold, though (based on his ownership stake) - so I think that will cover his contribution, and then some.
Re: his legacy, he'll have left us the stadium and training ground - but I just find it a bit hard to imagine putting up a statue to a chairman who led us to one league cup in 20 years.I hope so, mate. I hope your son and his generation see all the success that I never got to see as kid - hell, I hope that, when I have a kid, they'll grow up in a world where Spurs never have to be belittled for not having won things, because we will have won f*cking *everything*.
I just really doubt that it will happen with the model ENIC employ now, and that they've employed for twenty years. It's too risk-free, too low-cost, too stagnant, imo.
Oh and we have moved ourself into the European Elite despite not winning a trophy only the blind cannot see that
COYS!!!!!
Given that not a single player has wanted to join us for a full calendar year now, I think we should hold off a bit on that whole 'European elite' thing.
Cheers for the long response, mate. I really enjoyed reading it.
Fair enough, mate - I agree the stadium and training ground are great (the stadium will be bloody fantastic), and I've praised Levy for the stadium in particular multiple times in that thread.
They're definitely not frauds. They aren't, and I don't think I've ever argued that. But I have argued that they're just competent, and they run the club with the club's own money. My objection is that they have no real skin in the game, because all they do is manage the club semi-effectively without putting anything in themselves... and that they're content with the lowest-risk option all the time on the football side of things, even when the team sometimes badly needs a bit of risk (like now).
I really don't know who that is, tbh.
No arguments re: revenue. Our revenue is steadily growing, and will likely overhaul Arsenal's until they get back into the CL, at which point the roles will reverse. As I mentioned to @imcallingbullsh*t , we're copying their model, so we'll have similar finances considering the explosion in PL TV value in the post-2010 era.
But will that translate into investment in the team? I don't know if it will. My abiding fear is that ENIC will just use it to pay off the debt, and let us stagnate as our stars leave because we never win anything. Certainly, they've done that over the last year, and before that, they ran a 'zero net spend' policy for a full decade. The football side, as I said, seems secondary to them.
Emirates Marketing Project is run by a human rights-abusing Sheikh from a despotic country. They have ways to get around FFP. We're fully agreed there.
I don't know what we owe him, to be honest. As mentioned, he has't put anything in (neither has Joe Lewis), but he's used the club's own money in a competent fashion over twenty years. He's guaranteed 250m or so when we're sold, though (based on his ownership stake) - so I think that will cover his contribution, and then some.
I hope so, mate. I hope your son and his generation see all the success that I never got to see as kid - hell, I hope that, when I have a kid, they'll grow up in a world where Spurs never have to be belittled for not having won things, because we will have won f*cking *everything*.
I just really doubt that it will happen with the model ENIC employ now, and that they've employed for twenty years. It's too risk-free, too low-cost, too stagnant, imo.
Given that not a single player has wanted to join us for a full calendar year now, I think we should hold off a bit on that whole 'European elite' thing.
Cheers for the long response, mate. I really enjoyed reading it.
I actually think you make a fair point about Levy / Lewis not investing any money of their own, given that they will make a good chunk of money when they sell the club (in addition to their salary over the years and/or existing wealth). But would they even be able to in this day and age, with FFP?
I also think you understate their ‘competence’ and ‘semi-effectiveness’, as if what they’ve achieved in growing our revenue and improving our league position is just a standard and straightforward thing. Since the explosion of money in the PL, no one else has come close to doing what we’ve done - closing and even passing the gap on the rich teams. What makes you say they’ve only been semi-effective, when no other club has come close to what we’ve done?
nayenezgani
Jimmy Neighbour
I watch most games at an ungodly hour and manage to avoid carrying on like a child, odd OMT brain snap aside.
I have however been to WHL multiple times and seen Spurs play in the flesh both at home and away.
Perhaps experiencing that sense of community first hand makes me appreciate what the club is building even more.
Can't fudging wait to visit the new stadium. Part of the reason I'm moving to the UK to live later this year.
Glenda's Legs
Les Ferdinand
Let's not forget that they have invested in the team in the last year and we did not lose any star players (apart from Dembele this month and that was not due to investment). New contracts meaning increased wages for Kane, Dele, Son, Lamela, Winks (Verts? not sure). We also offered Toby a significantly increased deal which by all accounts he had accepted before moving the goalposts. And of course Poch himself got an enhanced deal. With Eriksen, it's apparently not a money issue that's holding him back from a new contract, so we are willing to invest in him too.
It might not be the level of investment you are hoping to see, but - and apologies if this seems like nit-picking - it's wrong to say there has been no investment in the team in the last year.
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BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
@DubaiSpur I think you just have to admit, they've taken a long term view, implemented a long-term strategy, and by and large, it is paying off. This is what Poch is talking about. Once we're in the stadium, with a great squad, some of the best facilities in the world, and with a proper wage budget to attract players that want to win titles, then there are no excuses. Until we are there, we are on the journey. And we have decided to invest in long term things to help us sustain that level rather than plough the same money in to short term fixes.
Yes, Chelsea won a load of trophies, but they were powered by oil money as you know. They've also had a few seasons in 10th, in 8th, in 6th, which if we had done would have set us back. But we're now pretty much were Arsenal are from a commercial revenue point of view. So the plan is working, it just depends on the view you take. Has it been a failure because we haven't won a trophy in the relatively short term period you want to judge it by? Yes, subjectively you could say that if that's what you were going for. But Levy is looking over a longer horizon. Are we almost there? Yes.
It is Levy's prerogative to invest his or Lewis' money in the club. You can or choose not to disagree with their decision not to plough their own money in to the club. But they're in the position to make these choices, and they took a long term view. I would argue that any club without the infrastructure to maintain the long term investment that has tried to spend their way to getting to where we are, has failed. Everton didn't have any quick fix. Villa are gone. Sunderland are way gone. I would also say the whole 'spend quick' thing doesn't immediately work in terms of building a real time and building a culture. City needed a couple of goes to get it right. Chelsea needed a go with Ranieri before Mourinho came in. We tried it with the Bale money and it just didn't work, and we didn't have the bottomless pit of cash to just spend again. We needed to build. Our only chance of getting up was doing it in a long term, sustainable way.
Yes, Chelsea won a load of trophies, but they were powered by oil money as you know. They've also had a few seasons in 10th, in 8th, in 6th, which if we had done would have set us back. But we're now pretty much were Arsenal are from a commercial revenue point of view. So the plan is working, it just depends on the view you take. Has it been a failure because we haven't won a trophy in the relatively short term period you want to judge it by? Yes, subjectively you could say that if that's what you were going for. But Levy is looking over a longer horizon. Are we almost there? Yes.
It is Levy's prerogative to invest his or Lewis' money in the club. You can or choose not to disagree with their decision not to plough their own money in to the club. But they're in the position to make these choices, and they took a long term view. I would argue that any club without the infrastructure to maintain the long term investment that has tried to spend their way to getting to where we are, has failed. Everton didn't have any quick fix. Villa are gone. Sunderland are way gone. I would also say the whole 'spend quick' thing doesn't immediately work in terms of building a real time and building a culture. City needed a couple of goes to get it right. Chelsea needed a go with Ranieri before Mourinho came in. We tried it with the Bale money and it just didn't work, and we didn't have the bottomless pit of cash to just spend again. We needed to build. Our only chance of getting up was doing it in a long term, sustainable way.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
If all Enic care about is money and if they are building the club to sell it to some major money man for a huge profit, somthing that is often said, with some venom at times it must be said, then surely this is what the ENic out phalanx want? They want the club sold to someone willing to invest, big money men are only willing to invest in product which Enic are building, therefore if their legacy is selling the club to a Cash Rich owner based on where they have taken the club then I don't see how or why thats levelled at Lewis as a negative? Its surely a win win win if that happens?
Lemonade Money
Steffen Freund
This. People just want to get angry about stuff.
Lemonade Money
Steffen Freund
And even if they did make a big profit, they'd be leaving us with a world class stadium, training ground, players, and manager.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Yeh exactly, people are so thick they don't see they are arguing against what they actually want.....its mental
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Are we finally getting to the real issue here?
Just to make sure I have get this correct. Your wish is for us to be bought out by a person who will lavish their personal fortune on the club? That would be awesome. However finding such an individual/group might not be quite as easy as making the wish. There are also a fair few club owners who have lavished money (either via gits or loans) on clubs, putting them on unsustainable paths that then unravel rather badly when the money runs out.