Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[glorygloryeze]

Cut it out mate, it's sad at this point. You're taking a quote said in the heat of the moment and using it to stir up discord.

If you don't think Poch is trying to win trophies then you're fudging deluded.

Stop trying to be the f-ing Spurs fan thought police FFS. Stirring up discord?? Get over yourself and come back to me to debate instead acting like Spurs' online PR squad

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Indeed 0...but who has gotten 'closer'? And who is closer atm?
Again, one club seems to be trying, the other thinks "trophies are just for egos"...sigh

Ah. So getting close is OK then? I must have misunderstood.
Poch has taken us to 3 semi-finals and a final in his tenure. That's getting close. We must have tried somewhere along the line to get that far.

 

[glorygloryeze]

By this you mean Spurs are the ones trying, right?

One of these teams has got to a semi final of the league cup and 4th round of the Fa Cup, the other team was knocked out at the first hurdle in both competitions. CL both clubs are at the same stage.

I’m not saying we are having a better season or anything like it, just that in the context you speak of “who is closer atm. One club seems to be trying the other club thinks cups are for egos”, I’m not sure you can suggest Liverpool are trying to win the Fa cup or league cup more than Spurs and both teams are clearly trying to win the CL and PL!

I actually think both clubs are trying but it has to be said Klopp/Liverpool are reaching for higher stuff.
I was pointing out to the poster when people were trying to compare us to Klopp then he would be in a better position to say what Poch said seeing as he's currently top of the league (though i'd disagree with Klopp saying it too)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

You've read me incorrectly. Many posters on here want a trophy, seemingly at any cost. I was framing the point from the perspective of those who think we should dispense with other priorities to win the FA or league cup. I agree with your points about resting players and be under no illusion that I would prefer us to get stronger as a club - which means regular CL football - than wi a trophy. Poch is in the top three mangers of our history (and we had Tim Sherwood AND Christian Gross) and has built a squad that has not only achieved things we have not achieved, but also played brillinat football with many. many academy players.

In that case I apologise, curse of the message board - the intent in text isnt always obvious!

 

[nayenezgani]

Stop trying to be the f-ing Spurs fan thought police FFS. Stirring up discord?? Get over yourself and come back to me to debate instead acting like Spurs' online PR squad

I'm encouraging common sense, I have said numerous time I understand and accept anger and frustrations at going out of cups. But at this point you're carrying on like a fudging child. So no, I won't engage in debate until you grow the fudge up.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Ah. So getting close is OK then? I must have misunderstood.
Poch has taken us to 3 semi-finals and a final in his tenure. That's getting close. We must have tried somewhere along the line to get that far.

Absolutely, i agree he has taken us close before. Hence he shouldn't be pooh-poohing the cups or our exit from it as "just for egos" as it was clearly flimflam on his part but not good imo from a PR point of view for him or advertisiong our club as trying to reach for the top AND win trophies.

Remember when he lost the semi-final last year? He certainly didn't have such a "trophies are just for egos" attitude then..

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'm encouraging common sense, I have said numerous time I understand and accept anger and frustrations at going out of cups. But at this point you're carrying on like a fudging child. So no, I won't engage in debate until you grow the fudge up.

It's you acting like a child/forum police. I engage in debate with several who disagree, but as usual it's you that act like anything to do with Spurs cannot be debated and we should all sing "everything is awesome";

If you don't like my posts then simply put me on your ignore list

 

[billyiddo]

Indeed 0...but who has gotten 'closer'? And who is closer atm?
Again, one club seems to be trying, the other thinks "trophies are just for egos"...sigh

Were Liverpool trying when they sent out rotated sides and got knocked out of both cups this season?

 

[nayenezgani]

It's you acting like a child/forum police. I engage in debate with several who disagree, but as usual it's you that act like anything to do with Spurs cannot be debated and we should all sing "everything is awesome";

If you don't like my posts then simply put me on your ignore list

First sensible post you've ever made.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Absolutely, i agree he has taken us close before. Hence he shouldn't be pooh-poohing the cups or our exit from it as "just for egos" as it was clearly flimflam on his part but not good imo from a PR point of view for him or advertisiong our club as trying to reach for the top AND win trophies.

Remember when he lost the semi-final last year? He certainly didn't have such a "trophies are just for egos" attitude then..

I think he is simply trying to counter (somewhat clumsily perhaps) the narrative that getting knocked out of the domestic cups is bad for the club. It isn't. Whilst of course we would like to win, and it would be a boost for the players (i.e. the 'ego' comment, which I don't think he meant in a derogatory way but that's just my interpretation), in its own it does not help the club to progress to where we want and need to be.
That's all. Nothing disrespectful intended. IMO.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Were Liverpool trying when they sent out rotated sides and got knocked out of both cups?

Liverpool got knocked out like we did. No problem, that's cups. Klopp then didn't try to justify getting knocked out by saying "ha, who cares about trophies eh" and as i say over the lifetime as coaches Klopp has gotten closer and lost (a higher level of 'bottling it' as the pundits might say lol).
My point is that Liverpool/Klopp won't actuvely speak down of the cups if/when they lose

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think he is simply trying to counter (somewhat clumsily perhaps) the narrative that getting knocked out of the domestic cups is bad for the club. It isn't. Whilst of course we would like to win, and it would be a boost for the players (i.e. the 'ego' comment, which I don't think he meant in a derogatory way but that's just my interpretation), in its own it does not help the club to progress to where we want and need to be.
That's all. Nothing disrespectful intended. IMO.

I suspect he indeed was trying to counter that narrative. A very poor attempt and one i would hope he doesn't really mean and it'd be nice if he/the club could issue a PR-type 'clarification' because the comments i think don't put him or the club in a good light to perspective player targets imo

 

[billyiddo]

Liverpool got knocked out like we did. No problem, that's cups. Klopp then didn't try to justify getting knocked out by saying "ha, who cares about trophies eh" and as i say over the lifetime as coaches Klopp has gotten closer and lost (a higher level of 'bottling it' as the pundits might say lol).
My point is that Liverpool/Klopp won't actuvely speak down of the cups if/when they lose

Well no what your point was was that Liverpool are trying to win trophies more than we are when in actual fact they are taking exactly the same approach to them as us

 

[Glenda's Legs]

So essentially we have a manager who is perhaps too honest for his own good. If he just kept quiet and let the media narrative run, then he wouldn't have to take additional flak. Just the existing media flak about him needing to win a trophy to prove himself.

And he has never said (as far as I know ) ""ha, who cares about trophies eh"". Far from it. He has just been clear about priorities, and there will always be differences of opinions amongst fans as to what those priorities should be,

I suspect he indeed was trying to counter that narrative. A very poor attempt and one i would hope he doesn't really mean and it'd be nice if he/the club could issue a PR-type 'clarification' because the comments i think don't put him or the club in a good light to perspective player targets imo

I hope the club would do no such thing.
And re potential targets - it's CL all day long that will attract the level of player we want and need.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well no what your point was was that Liverpool are trying to win trophies more than we are when in actual fact they are taking exactly the same approach to them as us

Liverpool year on year have backed their manager; they might win f-all but i don't think it can be argued that we are 'trying' more than they are given we didn't strengthen clearly necessary areas in the summer.
Put it this way, if we were top or within a win of top place right now, i might not have noticed Poch's comments (as much)..

 

[glorygloryeze]

So essentially we have a manager who is perhaps too honest for his own good. If he just kept quiet and let the media narrative run, then he wouldn't have to take additional flak. Just the existing media flak about him needing to win a trophy to prove himself.

And he has never said (as far as I know ) ""ha, who cares about trophies eh"". Far from it. He has just been clear about priorities, and there will always be differences of opinions amongst fans as to what those priorities should be,



I hope the club would do no such thing.
And re potential targets - it's CL all day long that will attract the level of player we want and need.

CL and money. We had CL last summer and that wasn't a guarantee to attract players we needed/wanted.
Unless we want to pay much more than we are currently offering you have to also give an additional attraction point for players, which is ambition.
Winning a trophy does indeed stroke a players ego and makes them hanker for more and more prestigous ones. It starts from somewhere and rarely is lucky enough to start from a PL/CL win.

The best managers started somewhere and Poch should not have spoken in a way that belies that

 

[Hootnow]

Well no what your point was was that Liverpool are trying to win trophies more than we are when in actual fact they are taking exactly the same approach to them as us

I think the difference is that Liverpool are currently sitting top of the league, having played a near flawless campaign so far in the league and Klopp has reached 2 European finals in his time ( as well as a domestic final I think). He's also won the league in Germany, a couple of cups and again, reached the CL final.

There's also the fact that the sports media in the UK is infested with previous Liverpool pundits so they do get a bit of an easier ride in general.

I think Poch is a bit too honest for his own good with some of these comments and ultimately gets a bit of stick from some for (seemingly) dismissing domestic trophies, having never won any himself and having not come close to winning either of the big 2 he talks about winning.

Is that fair? Potentially, potentially not.
Does that mean that anyone who doesn't like him saying it wants him out? No, I'd say there are a tiny minority of Spurs fans who think anything like that and I think it is unfair that Spurs fans who say they want to win some domestic trophies (and that in the past 3 years, we maybe should have won at least 1) are sometimes dismissed as fans who have fallen for the media narrative and can't think for themselves.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think the difference is that Liverpool are currently sitting top of the league, having played a near flawless campaign so far in the league and Klopp has reached 2 European finals in his time ( as well as a domestic final I think). He's also won the league in Germany, a couple of cups and again, reached the CL final.

There's also the fact that the sports media in the UK is infested with previous Liverpool pundits so they do get a bit of an easier ride in general.

I think Poch is a bit too honest for his own good with some of these comments and ultimately gets a bit of stick from some for (seemingly) dismissing domestic trophies, having never won any himself and having not come close to winning either of the big 2 he talks about winning.

Is that fair? Potentially, potentially not.
Does that mean that anyone who doesn't like him saying it wants him out? No, I'd say there are a tiny minority of Spurs fans who think anything like that and I think it is unfair that Spurs fans who say they want to win some domestic trophies (and that in the past 3 years, we maybe should have won at least 1) are sometimes dismissed as fans who have fallen for the media narrative and can't think for themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to put this so eloquently. No doubt a certain someone on here will lambast you for having 'an agenda'

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

"Again we're going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don't agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four."

He added: "It's true, this season has been tough. I told you it would be a massive challenge for us, but we believe it'll be a tough season but no tougher than it's been.

"Of course, disappointed because, after Thursday and today again, out of two competitions. You feel disappointed. You can't feel anything different.

"But now we have to be positive. We are still in two competitions, in a good position in the Premier League and the Champions League is a massive motivation for the whole club. We have to be strong.

"People wish we could win some trophies. But being realistic, we are doing so well. To win a title here in England like the FA Cup or Carabao Cup is about being lucky, not only about quality in your squad.

"To arrive here in different condition, so you can fight or be stronger… Of course, it's tougher to compete and win when things happened as they did.

"Sometimes when you assess football, you only look at which team won and which team lost, but you have to consider all the circumstances.

"Now the realistic targets are trying to be in the top four, try and be close to Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool and reduce the gap.

"To be a contender is always difficult for us. [Top four] is realistic. Another is to try and beat [Borussia] Dortmund and be in the next round. That is tough."


I seem to be missing the part where he pooh-poohs/dismisses the cups, can someone point it out?

Seems to me, very much, that he is putting the club as a whole into perspective. A cup win doesnt take us to the next level, CL and Premier League riches do - which is absolutely true. A cup win is great for the ego, but not elevating the team to being able to win the league etc. Which is true. And even so, he is really disappointed to go out. Which I dont doubt.

All I see is the man trying to offer some perspective

 

[glasgowspur]

Liverpool got knocked out like we did. No problem, that's cups. Klopp then didn't try to justify getting knocked out by saying "ha, who cares about trophies eh" and as i say over the lifetime as coaches Klopp has gotten closer and lost (a higher level of 'bottling it' as the pundits might say lol).
My point is that Liverpool/Klopp won't actuvely speak down of the cups if/when they lose

By the same token I've never heard any journo give klopp the brick poch gets for getting knocked out of cups or failing to live upto expectations in the league.