Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Raziel]

I’ve yet to see one clear article on it. All I’ve seen is “it costs a billion so that’s bad.”

What we really need to know is:
1. How much have we borrowed
2. Have we spent the 200m we had in the bank at the end of 2017
3. Over how many years is it repayable and how much do we repay per year
4. How much extra revenue is the stadium projected to generate per year

As I see it, 4 - 3 = our extra revenue (or deficit) while we pay the thing off and 4 = extra revenue after that time.

Because most people don't understand debt, especially at a large enterprise level.

- Us owing money on the stadium is not inherently a bad thing, debt can be easily managed, it will probably be over a long period of time.
- At minimum, I'd expect our (stadium related) income to double (but with Levy it could be considerably higher), via vastly expanded corporate facilities, sponsorship, NFL deal, additional events at WHL and expanded seating, additional income from store, food/drinks.

What the real conversation is (and numbers from Swiss Ramble backed up), is Spurs has (as a rule) refused to invest in the team by betting on future revenue (which has risk), we have used current revenue to pay current costs.

The real conversation between Poch and Levy now could be

- The stadium is pretty much done (should be no real surprises left)
- We know our costs, debt, payback structure
- We probably know a lot more (than anyone outside) re potential sponsorship, NFL, etc.
- We are a year ahead of schedule, and are pretty much CL regulars now

Are we willing and does it buy us anything, (i.e. do we believe a salary of "x" plus two top tier players would get Toby & Eriksen to stay, and do we believe those two players will make the gap between challenge and win?) to invest in both the current squad plus a few significant purchases either now or in summer?

Levy has always played the long game (and that is either beyond the comprehension or just not click bait enough for the media), but I don't think this investment was for Spurs to spend 3-5 years in the doldrums without sufficient squad funding, we saw the Scum experience and Levy is a much better businessman (and club chairman), the question is when, and is it soon enough to keep Poch and team on side with the project.

 

[Raziel]

btw, a key point no one misses re the question of if he's leaving.

- If I was Poch and I was sure the united job was mine in summer .. I'd play first 11 in every fudging cup game, I'd go all out to win FA & Carawhatever, because it wouldn't matter re 3rd/4th ..

 

[Finney Is Back]

I’ve yet to see one clear article on it. All I’ve seen is “it costs a billion so that’s bad.”

What we really need to know is:
1. How much have we borrowed
2. Have we spent the 200m we had in the bank at the end of 2017
3. Over how many years is it repayable and how much do we repay per year
4. How much extra revenue is the stadium projected to generate per year

As I see it, 4 - 3 = our extra revenue (or deficit) while we pay the thing off and 4 = extra revenue after that time.

Yep. I don't think we will ever know the exact figures unless there is a full forensic review of the accounts.

I have always worked on the assumption that the stadium would result in approx. £100 million of extra revenue per year compared to White Hart Lane.

If we then assume that the cost of the stadium project ends up being £500 million (land purchase + building costs - profit from enabling developments) and that whole £500 million was borrowed at a relatively punitive rate of interest of 5%. That would equate to £25 million of interest payable a year if the club decided that they wanted to service the debt only and not reduce it. Therefore the stadium would result in Spurs having £75 million of additional revenue to invest each year. Alternatively at that same 5% rate and paid off over a 20 year period that would equate to about £40 million a year to service and pay off the loan, so THFC being £60 million a year better off overall in terms of cash available, with this amount increasing every few years as Spurs refinance the reduced debt level.

The years in which we were building the stadium and having all of the capital outlay but not yet playing in the stadium and able to realise the increase in revenue were always going to be the difficult ones. It is incredible that Pochettino has actually improved our standing in this time. Once we are in the stadium however, the amount of money we are having to spend on non player related costs decreases, while the revenue we receive will increase.

The tough times are now and we are nearly through them. Of course we will then have a period of time where we cannot realise the full benefit of the stadium as we look to service and/or restructure the debt, but times will not get harder for us once we are in, they will get easier and gradually over the next 3, 5, 10 years our financial power will get greater and greater.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Expectations must be at a reasonable level. Nothing about investing being a must or he's off.

He refers to Arsenal not investing, and asking Wenger if it was worth it. If the answer is it wasn't worth it, what's the point of the question?
He's saying the expectations SHOULD have been at a reasonable level up until now, but now the expectations should be to win, and to do that, investing is a MUST.

 

[Jordinho]

He refers to Arsenal not investing, and asking Wenger if it was worth it. If the answer is it wasn't worth it, what's the point of the question?
He's saying the expectations SHOULD have been at a reasonable level up until now, but now the expectations should be to win, and to do that, investing is a MUST.

I think Wenger got a little obsessed with his project. Arsenal weren't really that skint, they still spent big money occasionally on players that weren't quite good enough (Wenger probably thinking he could uncover some hidden gems) and wasted millions by giving youth players huge wages as soon as they started playing in the first team. I think Poch has better methods for building team spirit and unity.

 

[Raziel]

The years in which we were building the stadium and having all of the capital outlay but not yet playing in the stadium and able to realise the increase in revenue were always going to be the difficult ones. It is incredible that Pochettino has actually improved our standing in this time. Once we are in the stadium however, the amount of money we are having to spend on non player related costs decreases, while the revenue we receive will increase.

The tough times are now and we are nearly through them. Of course we will then have a period of time where we cannot realise the full benefit of the stadium as we look to service and/or restructure the debt, but times will not get harder for us once we are in, they will get easier and gradually over the next 3, 5, 10 years our financial power will get greater and greater.

This .. is so much what the macarons don't see

- The real danger to Spurs was if we slipped to mid table mediocrity (in last 3-4 years) and had a brick team with no real prospects going into new stadium. Reality is, we have improved on income, standing, team quality (and value) and vastly increased our fanbase globally in last 5- years.

I want Poch and the current players to stay as much as anyone, but make no mistake, Levy has secured the future of Spurs, the absolute worse case (that the media wishes will happen) is Poch leaves (probably 40M+ in compensation) and then Eriksen, Dele, Toby & Kane follow (probably 400M+ in sales), so the new manager (and it will be a highly desirable job) will have CL in the best stadium in Europe and almost 500M to spend rebuilding ...

 

[Gazza]

This .. is so much what the macarons don't see

- The real danger to Spurs was if we slipped to mid table mediocrity (in last 3-4 years) and had a brick team with no real prospects going into new stadium. Reality is, we have improved on income, standing, team quality (and value) and vastly increased our fanbase globally in last 5- years.

I want Poch and the current players to stay as much as anyone, but make no mistake, Levy has secured the future of Spurs, the absolute worse case (that the media wishes will happen) is Poch leaves (probably 40M+ in compensation) and then Eriksen, Dele, Toby & Kane follow (probably 400M+ in sales), so the new manager (and it will be a highly desirable job) will have CL in the best stadium in Europe and almost 500M to spend rebuilding ...

And out of that the new manager will have 10 million and add 4 new players ... transition for 5 years and repeat

 

[DeanoAustin]

Because most people don't understand debt, especially at a large enterprise level.

- Us owing money on the stadium is not inherently a bad thing, debt can be easily managed, it will probably be over a long period of time.
- At minimum, I'd expect our (stadium related) income to double (but with Levy it could be considerably higher), via vastly expanded corporate facilities, sponsorship, NFL deal, additional events at WHL and expanded seating, additional income from store, food/drinks.

What the real conversation is (and numbers from Swiss Ramble backed up), is Spurs has (as a rule) refused to invest in the team by betting on future revenue (which has risk), we have used current revenue to pay current costs.

The real conversation between Poch and Levy now could be

- The stadium is pretty much done (should be no real surprises left)
- We know our costs, debt, payback structure
- We probably know a lot more (than anyone outside) re potential sponsorship, NFL, etc.
- We are a year ahead of schedule, and are pretty much CL regulars now

Are we willing and does it buy us anything, (i.e. do we believe a salary of "x" plus two top tier players would get Toby & Eriksen to stay, and do we believe those two players will make the gap between challenge and win?) to invest in both the current squad plus a few significant purchases either now or in summer?

Levy has always played the long game (and that is either beyond the comprehension or just not click bait enough for the media), but I don't think this investment was for Spurs to spend 3-5 years in the doldrums without sufficient squad funding, we saw the Scum experience and Levy is a much better businessman (and club chairman), the question is when, and is it soon enough to keep Poch and team on side with the project.

Good post. While a lot of people probably don't understand debt at this level, you'd expect journos to know what they're talking about beyond "stadium cost is a billion so Spurs are screwed".

I also think Levy is already spending future revenue with the money he offered Kane, Alli and Poch. And he's right to do that, it's common sense.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Arsenal is a loopy case (as always)

Its claimed they were restricted by the stadium, but reportedly had 200mil in the bank and their wages were huge after the stadium.

You may feel dirty but if you look at the transfers since they moved into the emirates the issue was that they have just spent really badly

 

[Gazza]

Arsenal is a loopy case (as always)

Its claimed they were restricted by the stadium, but reportedly had 200mil in the bank and their wages were huge after the stadium.

You may feel dirty but if you look at the transfers since they moved into the emirates the issue was that they have just spent really badly

I think they have spent brilliantly. Ozil plus wages was a nugget

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think Wenger got a little obsessed with his project. Arsenal weren't really that skint, they still spent big money occasionally on players that weren't quite good enough (Wenger probably thinking he could uncover some hidden gems) and wasted millions by giving youth players huge wages as soon as they started playing in the first team. I think Poch has better methods for building team spirit and unity.

Great point on Arsenal. They had a pinch early on, but thereafter were cash rich but simply didnt spend much.

They did, however, blow their wages budget well out of proportion.

 

[MKSpur]

I took the Poch point that for all Wenger achieved he probably wasn’t as revered for it by the fans by the end of his tenure. This was down to his own stubbornness to refuse to adapt to the changing landscape.

In terms of spending Goons were prudent whilst paying off the stadium but I think Wenger also favoured a flat wage structure, which instead of keeping everyone on par meant a lot of squad players were overpaid. A combination of idealism around the style of football and loyalty to perennially injured players didn’t help. When they did make an exception on wages they did it for the worst player possible!

I am delighted to hear Poch talking about the long term, I don’t think it’s a threat regarding transfer budgets just a statement of fact, we need to spend more to compete, the stadium should realise a new revenue stream and he’s doing a great job by getting us got where he has without even our ‘usual’ transfer budget as that appears to have been absorbed into the stadium costs.

On the flip side the more that is spent, the higher the expectation and this will be a new challenge for Poch depending the level of input he has on incoming players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And out of that the new manager will have 10 million and add 4 new players ... transition for 5 years and repeat

I always like to try to make the numbers as simple as possible (the only way my brain can cope with them). If we use Spurs last reported financial figures (for the last season at WHL) it showed a turnover of £306 million and profit from operations, excluding football trading and before exceptional items and depreciation of £118 million. We can therefore deduce that our operational costs with those same exclusions applied are around £188 million, or approx. 61% of turnover.

Of course at the current time pretty much all of our profits are being reinvested in the business to pay for the stadium construction, so we see very little of this potential £118 million profit being invested in the team.

Now let's assume that once we are in the new stadium our turnover increases to £400 million (not a ridiculous amount to assume). If we take that same operational cost ratio of 61% that would mean outgoings of £244 million and a cash surplus of £156 million. So assume we set aside £46 million of this to service the capital and interest on our debt. If we again assume a reasonably punitive interest rate of 5% this would mean it would take us the following terms to repay the entire debt at the following levels:

£300 million debt: ~8 years
£400 million debt: ~12 years
£500 million debt: ~16 years
£600 million debt: ~21 years
(my guess is that we will enter our new stadium with about £450 million of debt).

Anyway even paying our debt off in the reasonably short term periods listed above would leave us with a net transfer fund of over £100 million each and every season.

 

[StephenH]

Gossip

Real Madrid have chosen between Mauricio Pochettino and Massimiliano Allegri - Inda

REAL MADRID has made Massimiliano Allegri their No 1 choice to replace Santiago Solari over Mauricio Pochettino, Spanish journalist Eduardo Inda has claimed.
Los Blancos have endured a mixed campaign under the Spaniard, who was named as Julen Lopetegui’s successor back in November.
Real Madrid has since been tipped to axe Solari at the end of the season and place Mauricio Pochettino in charge.

The Tottenham boss was wanted to fill the void left by Zinedine Zidane’s sudden exit back in the summer.

But Spurs dug in and refused to let the Argentine go.

Pochettino has since been linked with the Manchester United job, with the Red Devils eager to lure him to Old Trafford as Jose Mourinho’s permanent successor.

And Spanish journalist Eduardo Inda has claimed Pochettino is no longer Real’s No 1 target.

Instead, they have firmly set their sights on Juventus boss Allegri.

"Massimiliano Allegri is the coach he wanted last summer and who wants next summer,” Inda said.

“He is a coach with whom he spoke personally last summer and called him on the phone.

“Pochettino is going to be impossible because Levy does not release him and he has a contract.”

Allegri, however, recently insisted he was happy at Juventus.

"I have a contract with Juventus and I am happy here,” he said.

"We are doing a great job together with the fans.


https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ttenham-Massimiliano-Allegri-Juventus-La-Liga

 

[mudshark]

I guess we'll have to wait and see what ENIC are really made of then. If I had to make a prediction, it would be that they'll continue dragging their feet when it comes to investment in playing staff (and especially wages, because unlike the millions they've put into bricks and mortar, that's money they won't see again). I hope they prove me wrong.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Gossip

Real Madrid have chosen between Mauricio Pochettino and Massimiliano Allegri - Inda

REAL MADRID has made Massimiliano Allegri their No 1 choice to replace Santiago Solari over Mauricio Pochettino, Spanish journalist Eduardo Inda has claimed.
Los Blancos have endured a mixed campaign under the Spaniard, who was named as Julen Lopetegui’s successor back in November.
Real Madrid has since been tipped to axe Solari at the end of the season and place Mauricio Pochettino in charge.

The Tottenham boss was wanted to fill the void left by Zinedine Zidane’s sudden exit back in the summer.

But Spurs dug in and refused to let the Argentine go.

Pochettino has since been linked with the Manchester United job, with the Red Devils eager to lure him to Old Trafford as Jose Mourinho’s permanent successor.

And Spanish journalist Eduardo Inda has claimed Pochettino is no longer Real’s No 1 target.

Instead, they have firmly set their sights on Juventus boss Allegri.

"Massimiliano Allegri is the coach he wanted last summer and who wants next summer,” Inda said.

“He is a coach with whom he spoke personally last summer and called him on the phone.

“Pochettino is going to be impossible because Levy does not release him and he has a contract.”

Allegri, however, recently insisted he was happy at Juventus.

"I have a contract with Juventus and I am happy here,” he said.

"We are doing a great job together with the fans.


https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ttenham-Massimiliano-Allegri-Juventus-La-Liga

That bolded bit just about sums up the quality of the 'piece'...!

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

I guess we'll have to wait and see what ENIC are really made of then. If I had to make a prediction, it would be that they'll continue dragging their feet when it comes to investment in playing staff (and especially wages, because unlike the millions they've put into bricks and mortar, that's money they won't see again). I hope they prove me wrong.

Same argument as 12 months and 6 months ago... they wont pay the wages.

Then Kane signed, Then Dele signed

 

[glorygloryeze]

Same argument as 12 months and 6 months ago... they wont pay the wages.

Then Kane signed, Then Dele signed

Or the argument that the transfer budget would be effected...then they signed no-one, being the first club in years to sign no-one in a summer transfer window...

Just putting it out there for balance...

The jury is still out there for ENIC either way, time will tell...

 

[mudshark]

Same argument as 12 months and 6 months ago... they wont pay the wages.

Then Kane signed, Then Dele signed

Yeah, but then no-one signed in the summer. I'll wait for the longer term picture.

 

[Baleforce]

Or the argument that the transfer budget would be effected...then they signed no-one, being the first club in years to sign no-one in a summer transfer window...

Just putting it out there for balance...

The jury is still out there for ENIC either way, time will tell...

is it?

for me, where we are now seemed impossible from where we were when they took over