Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
That I don’t doubt
But I’d hope that assume in the prem helps him long term
And of course we saved ourselves £20m buying him once they went down
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Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter Dorothy
- Start date
But I’d hope that assume in the prem helps him long term
And of course we saved ourselves £20m buying him once they went down
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Well as has been said on many occasions Stop! Hammer time, and we will have to disagree.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
So just to check my sanity i went and looked at the players he brought in and subsequently sold
it looks like this
14/15
In
Davies 11m
Fazio 9m
Dele 5m
Stambouli £6m
Vorm £5m
Dier £4m
Yedlin £2m
£42m
Out
No Poch signings
15/16
In
Son £27m
Toby £14m
N’Jie £13m
Wimmer £6m
Trippier £4m
£64m
Out
Stambouli £8m + £2m
£8m
16/17
In
Sissoko £31m
Janssen £20m
Wanyama £13m
NKodou £10m
£74m
Out
Yedlin £5m + £3m
17/18
In
Sanchez £37m
Moura £26m
Aurier £23m
Llorente £13m
Foyth £12m
£90m
Out
Wimmer £16m + £10m
N’Jie £6m - 7m
Fazio £3m - £6m
£25m
18/19
In
No one
Out
No one
19/20
Tanguy £54m
Sessegnon £24m
Le Celso £40m guess
Clarke £10m
£138m
Out
Trippier £20m + £16m
Jansenn £8m - £12m
N’Koudou £3m - £7m
Llorente £0m - £13m
Vorm 0 - £6m
Wanyama 0 - £13m
£31m
Spent £408m on signings under his leadership
His signings brought in £69m
Made a £31m profit on his signings
Lost £64m in his signings (including Vorm) and Llorente)
Of the other players sold of note only Walker and Chadli were regulars and ones that we made money on under Poch.
14 of his signings are still at the club so a big chunk of the existing squad
the fact that 60% of the current squad was brought under Poch imo is slightly surprising but it shows he made the squad his own
The fact we lost a lot of money on his signings (all be it very few were big money ones other than Jansenn) is what it is.
We did make money selling other players that didn’t really play under him that much in reality like mason, Bentelab, Pritchard, naughton, Townsend and some others but that’s natural attrition as we have seen with Liverpool for example who seem to make crazy money on bang average youth players. Poch has to get some credit the though a as he played most of them at some point... although I don’t believe any made their debut under him (possibly Pritchard)
I do think looking at his track record for signings and I’d argue that of them we actually have Sanchez, Davies, Dele, Toby, Aurier (by default) and Son who are genuine starters, plus the likes of Sissoko who is loved and hated and Diers now back in but wasn’t really under Pochs final season who played too so that’s a big chunk of the first 11 and we have Moura too plating a lot... and we have Lo Celso and Ndombele this season too (Sessegnon played more under Mou) ... the average cost of that group is £25m over 11 players
Shouldn’t that kind of investment justify decent performances and results which we saw? I’d say so, but...
He got some brilliant performances out of players and made some improve a lot
We made the champions league final which I don’t think any spurs fan saw coming ... that run was unreal and two of the most adrenaline inducing, mentally demanding games I’ve ever seen (I couldn’t sleep properly for about 2 weeks after the Ajax away game)
and yes I’m bored tonight hence so much detail, waffle and thoughts so I apologise for those who actually read this
much love to all fellow spurs fans in these strange times... 5 months ago when I got text after text saying Poch had been sacked And 8 was trying to get my youngest to sleep I was in disbelief. The last month has made me doubt more things TBH but life is the biggest chalk he itself they say
it looks like this
14/15
In
Davies 11m
Fazio 9m
Dele 5m
Stambouli £6m
Vorm £5m
Dier £4m
Yedlin £2m
£42m
Out
No Poch signings
15/16
In
Son £27m
Toby £14m
N’Jie £13m
Wimmer £6m
Trippier £4m
£64m
Out
Stambouli £8m + £2m
£8m
16/17
In
Sissoko £31m
Janssen £20m
Wanyama £13m
NKodou £10m
£74m
Out
Yedlin £5m + £3m
17/18
In
Sanchez £37m
Moura £26m
Aurier £23m
Llorente £13m
Foyth £12m
£90m
Out
Wimmer £16m + £10m
N’Jie £6m - 7m
Fazio £3m - £6m
£25m
18/19
In
No one
Out
No one
19/20
Tanguy £54m
Sessegnon £24m
Le Celso £40m guess
Clarke £10m
£138m
Out
Trippier £20m + £16m
Jansenn £8m - £12m
N’Koudou £3m - £7m
Llorente £0m - £13m
Vorm 0 - £6m
Wanyama 0 - £13m
£31m
Spent £408m on signings under his leadership
His signings brought in £69m
Made a £31m profit on his signings
Lost £64m in his signings (including Vorm) and Llorente)
Of the other players sold of note only Walker and Chadli were regulars and ones that we made money on under Poch.
14 of his signings are still at the club so a big chunk of the existing squad
the fact that 60% of the current squad was brought under Poch imo is slightly surprising but it shows he made the squad his own
The fact we lost a lot of money on his signings (all be it very few were big money ones other than Jansenn) is what it is.
We did make money selling other players that didn’t really play under him that much in reality like mason, Bentelab, Pritchard, naughton, Townsend and some others but that’s natural attrition as we have seen with Liverpool for example who seem to make crazy money on bang average youth players. Poch has to get some credit the though a as he played most of them at some point... although I don’t believe any made their debut under him (possibly Pritchard)
I do think looking at his track record for signings and I’d argue that of them we actually have Sanchez, Davies, Dele, Toby, Aurier (by default) and Son who are genuine starters, plus the likes of Sissoko who is loved and hated and Diers now back in but wasn’t really under Pochs final season who played too so that’s a big chunk of the first 11 and we have Moura too plating a lot... and we have Lo Celso and Ndombele this season too (Sessegnon played more under Mou) ... the average cost of that group is £25m over 11 players
Shouldn’t that kind of investment justify decent performances and results which we saw? I’d say so, but...
He got some brilliant performances out of players and made some improve a lot
We made the champions league final which I don’t think any spurs fan saw coming ... that run was unreal and two of the most adrenaline inducing, mentally demanding games I’ve ever seen (I couldn’t sleep properly for about 2 weeks after the Ajax away game)
and yes I’m bored tonight hence so much detail, waffle and thoughts so I apologise for those who actually read this
much love to all fellow spurs fans in these strange times... 5 months ago when I got text after text saying Poch had been sacked And 8 was trying to get my youngest to sleep I was in disbelief. The last month has made me doubt more things TBH but life is the biggest chalk he itself they say
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
True.
Looking at that list, he was supported far more than any other Spurs manager I can remember.
The biggest issue for me is for someone who pushed the "we need a refresh" narrative he was unable to integrate players at a good rate.
- Lloris, Jan, Rose, Eriksen, Lamela all there for his full time and played when fit (5 out of 11)
- By 15/16 w/Son, Toby Trippier, Davies, Dele, Dier in, team changes very little from that time on, even with players being bought
We go from Dier playing and scoring on his debut to players needing 2 years to adjust to team and as mentioned elsewhere the weird obsession with attacking wide players that didn't fit his system.
My view more and more becomes Poch was a great coach for a young, hungry team (that had been mostly assembled for him) that had very little final expectation. When the step up had been made and he needed to have genuine input on making the side/system better and the expectation of actually winning (not just challenging), he was not able to do it (see the mess at Chelsea, the times we need to win the next one or two games to truly pressure, the Semis and finals)
I disagree a bit with @DubaiSpur on the who he wanted vs. who he got, partially because that is always speculation and that is an excuse for every manager (Harry, AVB, Poch, etc.), anyone can say if I got x players I could have done better.
At the end, his success was getting us to contend, his failure was when close enough to truly win, he didn't and the pressure got to him
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
I still feel incredibly sad that he's gone. He gave me the best time supporting this club in terms of results and style of play. Rarely have I ever expected to win games but I did under Poch. For years I didn't expect to compete with the big clubs but we did under Poch. Towards the end, he got on my nerves a bit with some of his press conferences and I think he had to go because he wasn't going to turn it around. I'd have given him the season out of loyalty but he just wasn't going to do it. It was broken.
He achieved amazing things here. Getting us top 4, getting us challenging for the league, getting us to a CL final and keeping us in the top 4 when spending nothing and playing at Wembley. Mind boggling stuff but unfortunately, no trophy. Whenever I see a picture of him, I still feel he's one of us, I still feel he's the manager. Because, for me, he was perfect for us and we were all in it together.
I understand why Levy did what he did and I understand why Jose was the obvious choice given what we want to do. But it saddens me that Poch has gone and it saddens me when I see some of the disrespect that is shown for what was a very successful reign (last few months aside). He'll always have my gratitude and respect and I hope he goes on to great things.
He achieved amazing things here. Getting us top 4, getting us challenging for the league, getting us to a CL final and keeping us in the top 4 when spending nothing and playing at Wembley. Mind boggling stuff but unfortunately, no trophy. Whenever I see a picture of him, I still feel he's one of us, I still feel he's the manager. Because, for me, he was perfect for us and we were all in it together.
I understand why Levy did what he did and I understand why Jose was the obvious choice given what we want to do. But it saddens me that Poch has gone and it saddens me when I see some of the disrespect that is shown for what was a very successful reign (last few months aside). He'll always have my gratitude and respect and I hope he goes on to great things.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
You said in 7 words what I waffled around for three paragraphs. Couldn't agree more.
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
Yes,
poch could not bring the players we had exactly to a higher level but he did not get the back up he needed! and i surpose Levy and company did not feel they should spend more money in the transfer market. If they the [Directors]had just brought in a couple of really class players last season when we got to the CL final we may very well had at last pass the post and won something..
So..now we have Jose...where do we go from here in your opinion?
its not looking so good....
I'm not worried, Levy has had the odd bad 12-18 months in his tenure but he quickly catches it and turns it around to an even better level. The big risk was the Poch implosion happening when we were at our first season in Wembley, it could have had a real impact on our finances and decisions made, we have got past that.
Our income has improved and the club will spend more on players and wages (already seen last summer), will we outspend Pool or United? = no, but we are a better run club, so if we are close enough then we can compete.
I also think the part people miss when talking about how Poch was or wasn't backed is the fact that Levy was probably focusing way more on the stadium that anything else for 2-3 years. With his attention back to on the pitch matters and if the rumours of DoF (Lille guy) are true, then again, perhaps lesson learned and we move on.
I was here when Hoddle, Jol, Redknapp, AVB, and Poch left, and the narrative was the same, we are never going to do better, this was our opportunity, the sky is falling, our best players will leave, we will go back to mid table mediocrity, etc. etc.
Spurs is legitimately a top 6 club now, with what will likely be top 3 or 4 income, and yes we will have brick years, but our profile, location, income and the way the club is run will keep us there or thereabouts .. keep the faith
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Levy probably was focussed as you say. But do you not think he could've edged a little of that focus into supporting the few things Poch asked for? Especially in the final two years?
(Following is general response)
The players bought list that I see circulated makes me laugh. Yeah. Poch chose Stambouli over Schneiderlin, Sissoko over Mane, etc, etc. People tend to forget it isn't like he was unreasonable. He didn't ask for Messi!
As for the "he didn't improve players" blahddy blah, well he did something because we became CL regulars and made it to the Final (with Llorente - the EXACT bench strong experience we need now playing a key role). I know I know "but we didn't win it" however we got there. If people want to remind themselves why we did not win it they should grow a pair and watch it again BTW.
As for "the narrative was the same after Jol, Hoddle, Redknapp, etc" no, no it wasn't. Not even close. Redknapp was close but he was a clown shoe who sold us down the river and cried wolf. Glenn? Many were relieved he was out of his misery as it was sad that he could not make it happen for so many reasons.
The last time I remember such feelings was Uefa Cup time, when Burky offered his infamous "there used to be a football club over there" remark.
Maybe some cannot gauge what Poch gave us off the pitch as well as on it.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Love this.
Yes, the rewriting of his tenure is poor form. Nearly as bad as gaslighting people who then defend him. Nearly as bad as then saying said-people need to "forget him and support Mourinho" when to the best of my knowledge not one person who supports us doesn't also support the manager...
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
maybe give him the £400m we gave Poch in his time and see (and yes I’m being sarcastic)
Jose is having to make some big calls and that why he was brought in
I also do wonder if levy looked at the money spent and the problems he and shifting the signings made and wants a manager with more experience in charge just in case
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Who has said he didn’t improve players?
id be stunned if any of our fans think that
I’ve seen the argument that a lot of players brought in under his tenure failed under him and therefore lost value (I put the numbers up on the previous page). That’s not a good sign as it shows a scatter gun approach by the club and he of course was the man in charge at the time so is a significant part of that.
it’s also worth looking at selling players or releasing players like Trippier and Llorente this season without adequate cover or replacements. And neither went late in the window or where we linked with replacements.
it also needs to be factored in that we improved so much under his time the type of players we needed changed to make actual improvements and that’s even harder. It’s why Jose said this is the ground Poch helped build
uksb
Jamie Redknapp
How does an excellent coach "bottle" a final? I think you have to look deeper than just the results in this case.
Klopp's done it in every final he's ever contested - people think he's a good coach.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
When Hoddle and AVB went I think most people were happy (deliriously so in the latter case).
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I hope we do give him at least that over the same 5 year period..... only this time without forcing him to generate £280 million of it in sales.