braineclipse
Willie Hall
And one of the richest, and that won't go away just from missing out on CL football for a season.
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Mata to utd. Draxler to arsenal. Are we fu**ed?
- Thread starter veron23
- Start date
And one of the richest, and that won't go away just from missing out on CL football for a season.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
I actually don't think it takes a lot for a player to view a club differently. Just a year of struggling, no CL, senior players leaving/kicking up a fuss etc can see clubs leapfrog them in a player's mind. This whole Club A is bigger than Club B thing is merely just a "my dad's bigger than your dad" type thing between fans, it's the here, now and short term future that matters to these players - along with a bag full of cash obviously.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
And that won't change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League
2012/13 Deloitte turnover numbers in millions of Euros:
Manchester United 423.8
Liverpool 240.6
Tottenham Hotspur 172
Ourselves or Liverpool could get CL football ahead of United and they would still be way the **** out in front.
Cochise
Steve Carr
The problem is that we will always end up being the club that young up coming players will come to who want first team football. Once they have kicked on to the next level we lose their services in a flash, the idea is for us to get a bunch of young developing players all come through at once.
This is why I don't get how people cannot see that establishing ourselves in the top four is everything right now. We will never just jump from 5th to 1st, we need years in the top four/ECL to build a base before pushing on. I'm pretty sure I've heard it on here before that Levy wants regular CL football to help with the building of the stadium. Emirates Marketing Project got away with their "project" because top players came for the money, but even they had to go through a season of fighting for top four. As soon as they got it they became title contenders as the very best players signed up. Now players come to them not so much for the money, but to come and play with the best in the world.
On a side note, I hope UTD do bring in 5 players all in one window. Maybe it will go for them like it did for us. I doubt it though
We have said it for the last three years now and this really is the season where we have to stake our claim, otherwise it will be another decade of the Sky 4. Chelsea won't slide again now Mourinho is back, Emirates Marketing Project look deadly and will stay where they are, Arsenal with Wenger will always be up there with the players they are recruiting and UTD next season with Rooney, RVP, Mata and GHod knows who else will be fighting at the top too.
If we can nick it this year, we can slow their progress a little, but it is a vague hope and we would need to see more (top) quality brought in to sustain form in CL and the league, otherwise we will be another one season wonder. Somewhere down the line Levy is going to have to splash the cash to keep us going, the new stadium is a must.
This is why I don't get how people cannot see that establishing ourselves in the top four is everything right now. We will never just jump from 5th to 1st, we need years in the top four/ECL to build a base before pushing on. I'm pretty sure I've heard it on here before that Levy wants regular CL football to help with the building of the stadium. Emirates Marketing Project got away with their "project" because top players came for the money, but even they had to go through a season of fighting for top four. As soon as they got it they became title contenders as the very best players signed up. Now players come to them not so much for the money, but to come and play with the best in the world.
On a side note, I hope UTD do bring in 5 players all in one window. Maybe it will go for them like it did for us. I doubt it though
We have said it for the last three years now and this really is the season where we have to stake our claim, otherwise it will be another decade of the Sky 4. Chelsea won't slide again now Mourinho is back, Emirates Marketing Project look deadly and will stay where they are, Arsenal with Wenger will always be up there with the players they are recruiting and UTD next season with Rooney, RVP, Mata and GHod knows who else will be fighting at the top too.
If we can nick it this year, we can slow their progress a little, but it is a vague hope and we would need to see more (top) quality brought in to sustain form in CL and the league, otherwise we will be another one season wonder. Somewhere down the line Levy is going to have to splash the cash to keep us going, the new stadium is a must.
CL isn't everything though Cochise - if anything it's money > CL
using Arsenal as the perfect example, ever present in the CL but always fearful of losing their bigger players to those with more money Fabregas/Nasri/RVP. now they have paid off their stadium and can afford higher wages that will most likely become less of a problem for them. the single most important thing for us right now is to build the stadium, of course CL football will help move that along a bit, but until we can part match the wages offered by the established elite (and new money clubs) our better players will always be ripe for the picking
using Arsenal as the perfect example, ever present in the CL but always fearful of losing their bigger players to those with more money Fabregas/Nasri/RVP. now they have paid off their stadium and can afford higher wages that will most likely become less of a problem for them. the single most important thing for us right now is to build the stadium, of course CL football will help move that along a bit, but until we can part match the wages offered by the established elite (and new money clubs) our better players will always be ripe for the picking
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
we could still reinforce our squad. ? is will we?....................
Berbs for starters.............I know not popular with some....but we have to rise to the challenge....
and here us all thinking nothing much will happen this transfer window..LOL
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
I 100% agree.....A strong mentality...and not back down....NEVER NEVER NEVER.....................
56 K Stadium also sends out the wrong message as well.....Anyway..........................
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
You would get more fans in nou camp...more fans= more money...more money = better players.....!
either way, purely being in the Champions League wasn't enough to keep them there, we'd suffer the same problems as now - as soon as a player establishes himself as good enough to play for a better/richer team they'd just as likely leave as they the better players in our current team
why is everybody missing the point and keep blaming the stadium. its not just the stadium/money its the DECISIONS we make at the crucial time that gets good players.
chelsea and man utd have the stadium and the money and the trophies i.e more pull than arsenal but they have made the DECISION not to buy somebody like draxler. that decision will be costly and is not down to money or the stadium - ITS DOWN TO THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE NOT IDENTIFYING THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THE TEAM.
avb once said chelsea would never sell mata to a rival. lets say we wanted mata, we never would have got him because we wouldnt of tried based upon an assumption. then utd come along and take him. that wouldnt be down to a stadium or money. its down to poor decisions
we need to stop seeing these managers and directors as people with extraordinary intelligence and knowledge. they are prone to mistakes like everybody else. so sometimes not getting the right player can be down to something simple and not something elaborate like wages or a stadium
if chelsea or utd bid for draxler (who hes perfect for) i find it hard to imagine draxler would still chose arsenal. him going to arsenal is not down to money or stadium - its down to a poor DECISION by chelsea and utd and whoever else fails to identify his talent/value and the opportunity
chelsea sell mata, then have the money for draxler but opt a) for salah instead of draxler which results in b) draxler going to arsenal which then results in c) chelsea becoming weaker and allowing arsenal to become stronger. this is not stadium or money talking. this is DECISIONS made by individuals
in a nutshell - chelsea and united have more "right" than arsenal to bigger signings and most people thought arsenal wouldnt make top 4 this year but in the space of a few months somehow they have ozil and will likely have draxler in their first 11. thats not the stadium or wages offered - thats somebody at arsenal being alert to the market and taking advantage of certain situations and all of a sudden they go from an apparant weak team to having the 2 best signings and sit top of the league
chelsea and man utd have the stadium and the money and the trophies i.e more pull than arsenal but they have made the DECISION not to buy somebody like draxler. that decision will be costly and is not down to money or the stadium - ITS DOWN TO THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE NOT IDENTIFYING THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THE TEAM.
avb once said chelsea would never sell mata to a rival. lets say we wanted mata, we never would have got him because we wouldnt of tried based upon an assumption. then utd come along and take him. that wouldnt be down to a stadium or money. its down to poor decisions
we need to stop seeing these managers and directors as people with extraordinary intelligence and knowledge. they are prone to mistakes like everybody else. so sometimes not getting the right player can be down to something simple and not something elaborate like wages or a stadium
if chelsea or utd bid for draxler (who hes perfect for) i find it hard to imagine draxler would still chose arsenal. him going to arsenal is not down to money or stadium - its down to a poor DECISION by chelsea and utd and whoever else fails to identify his talent/value and the opportunity
chelsea sell mata, then have the money for draxler but opt a) for salah instead of draxler which results in b) draxler going to arsenal which then results in c) chelsea becoming weaker and allowing arsenal to become stronger. this is not stadium or money talking. this is DECISIONS made by individuals
in a nutshell - chelsea and united have more "right" than arsenal to bigger signings and most people thought arsenal wouldnt make top 4 this year but in the space of a few months somehow they have ozil and will likely have draxler in their first 11. thats not the stadium or wages offered - thats somebody at arsenal being alert to the market and taking advantage of certain situations and all of a sudden they go from an apparant weak team to having the 2 best signings and sit top of the league
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why do you think Arsenal were in a position to sign Ozil, one of the highest regarded players in world football and are now on the verge (apparently) of signing Draxler, one of the games brightest prospects?
MONEY (stadium)
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL
anyone can make the decision to sign good players/spot the best prospects - whether they will sign for you without out at least one of the above is an entirely different matter.
we can't shop in the Ozil level market for those reasons and we probably can't shop in the Draxler level prospect market either. Lamela, you may argue, was in that market but then we have Baldini to thank for that - generally we have to go for the more risky signings - Vertonghen/Eriksen types who haven't proved themselves in the big leagues and prospects that are not as far along with their development or are based further afield (therefore not likely to have piqued the interest of the bigger clubs who can afford to wait until younger players are more proven)
MONEY (stadium)
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL
anyone can make the decision to sign good players/spot the best prospects - whether they will sign for you without out at least one of the above is an entirely different matter.
we can't shop in the Ozil level market for those reasons and we probably can't shop in the Draxler level prospect market either. Lamela, you may argue, was in that market but then we have Baldini to thank for that - generally we have to go for the more risky signings - Vertonghen/Eriksen types who haven't proved themselves in the big leagues and prospects that are not as far along with their development or are based further afield (therefore not likely to have piqued the interest of the bigger clubs who can afford to wait until younger players are more proven)
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Seriously? Both your shift keys are broken, but your caps lock still works? What's the odds of that.
Somewhat on topic: You think we could have signed Mata head of United this transfer window? Seriously?
thats not what i said at all. the point was missed, nevermind
braineclipse
Willie Hall
"lets say we wanted mata, we never would have got him because we wouldnt of tried based upon an assumption. then utd come along and take him. that wouldnt be down to a stadium or money. its down to poor decisions"
What does this part meant then? It's the only part of your post that seems to be a specific Spurs-related example...
i said "lets say".
im just making the point that EVEN IF WE DID want him we wouldn't have a chance because of a stupid reason which was our manager (at the time) thought chelsea wouldnt sell him. that wasnt down to a stadium or wages it would be down to the manager being half asleep while another manager is more active. mata wouldnt go spurs anyway but the point is if AVB was managing utd they woudnt of got mata due to the managers mentality that they cant get him. redknapp for example always punched above his weight when it came to transfers and alot of the time got away with it - not down to offering wages or bigger stadiums but by simply being active while other managers were half asleep.
its not just stadiums and wages which bring players to clubs its astute moves by managers.
arsenal in my opinion have no right to have ozil and draxler on their books but that didnt stop wenger going for them - and lo and behold they got them because the time they went for them the other managers were half asleep going for other players assuming the likes of ozil and draxler were unavailable.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
So we should have gone for Mata? Or not? We didn't and you say we couldn't get him. Doesn't seem like a good example to illustrate your point.
Who were these players where Redknapp punched above his weight? (Please don't say VdV, the player that we were reportedly offered by Real and who Redknapp said he knew nothing about until Levy called him up and said "do you want VdV?")
Everyone and their cat knew that Ozil was available. United, Chelsea, City, they could have swooped in whenever if they wanted to. Before he was sold didn't the Real fans organize a "don't sell Ozil" protest? The reason Arsenal got him was because bigger clubs didn't go for him, just like it was the case when we signed Berbatov and Modric.
Draxler has a reported release clause in his contract. By definition not unavailable I would say. A release clause I think the big clubs are aware of.
Charlie
Radek Cerny
+1. Totally agree with this. We had long term plan with Bale and Modric. That plan evaporated in a flash. The contracts of Vert, Sandro, and Lloris are expiring in summer 2016 (2 years after this season). It will be a coup for all of them to renew if we don't get CL next season.
Charlie
Radek Cerny
Can we realistically buy another player with Bale's quality for 80 million quid? World class players do not come along very often especially at Spurs. We gave Bale and Modric big long-term contracts. The contracts did not really mean anything at the end when richer clubs can spend big on other players. We have been having to rebuild the team almost every season. Bigger teams do not normally have to worry about having to lose star players against their wishes but we have to every year. I wish that football adopts the American system where there is virtually no transfer fees. Then the contract will mean something when six-year contract really mean six years.