Maggie

[kanoute16]

Sigh...........predictable responses on here.

From both sides, TBH.

At the end of the day, she did some wonderful things for some people, and some bricky ones for others.

Which, in all honesty, hasn't changed a great deal since, has it? Regardless of which party is in power.

Not mourning her death, not having a (dis-tasteful) celebratory drink either.

I think you need to read Sheffield's summation and rethink your post.
This is the bit I will always remember from that era

The New Statesman on TV really did say it all; arrogance, greed, me, now, don't care about others as long as 'I'm all right Jack'.

 

[Crawley]

I think you need to read Sheffield's summation and rethink your post.
This is the bit I will always remember from that era

The New Statesman on TV really did say it all; arrogance, greed, me, now, don't care about others as long as 'I'm all right Jack'.

Why?

Because it doesn't align with your opinion of her?

Thanks, but I'll just treat her death as "meh". Not bothered either way.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

People who state that this woman was a great leader clearly have no understanding of what leadership is. Great leaders unite their people, they don't divide them. Great leaders solve crisis, they dont create them.

Remember her speech outside Number 10 on being elected? "Where we find discord" etc... it was as if that was a tinkle take in that her subsequent actions contradicted the whole speech.

 

[scaramanga]

The difference is in Surrey you didn't have massive redundancies and industrial destruction as happened with steel and coal here.

The main difference being that school dropouts in Surrey weren't trying to bully taxpayers into paying them graduate wages. People in Surrey retrained or went back to education - those in the North thought that if they bitched and whined long enough the government would give them another handout like they always did in the past. Fortunately that didn't happen, but it's a very slow process and even now people are still learning that one has to work for a living.

 

[scaramanga]

ah the good old northern chip on the shoulder but with gravy not tomato sauce

when getting coal from australia is cheaper then the getting it in Yorkshire im really not sure how anyone can suggest that it was not the right move. My only problem with thatcher is that when they sold of the council houses that money was not used to build more council houses.

The north only has itself to blame but because it is weak it will never except any blame like a drug addict that does not want to get itself help. I have retrained in my life and gone out and got different jobs, it is what you do when you lose a job. Unless of course your northern or a labour voter then you expect it to be handed to you on a plate and if it is not then you can moan tat bloody souther softies bastards tin westminster.

New labour created a million extra civil service jobs mainly in the north because they wanted a new voter base, instead of doing the right thing in their 13 years and creating a new industry up there, they realised northern and labour people dont want to go out and do proper jobs they just want to live off the south. Without the south east bailing out the north they would have a similar GDP as latvia but none of the work ethic.

She did well to get rid of the coal mines what should happened is that more effort was created to promote new industry in it place. But anyone who thinks thatcher destroyed the north should look at Detroit, citys and areas fall it happens.

Excellent post - best on this side of the forum in a long time. Here, have some internets.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Nothing wrong with Surrey at all. As for working mines there, they sure ain't coal mines. Whatever they are, they are open, as you state. Unlike coal mines in this manor.

No, your father worked his nuts off to put a roof over your head and food on your table, just like many coal miners and steelworkers did for their families. The difference is in Surrey you didn't have massive redundancies and industrial destruction as happened with steel and coal here.

Sadly industries die, and when communities are built around them they die too. This is a sad natural economic lifecycle. It's happened to loads of industries over centuries. Why should the majority of a country subsidise a minority or money losing industry? And surely if the people in the ailing industries were true socialists they'd put the country before the community and their industry?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

She turned us all into selfish money grabbing fluffy bunnies cuddlings!
She created the monster in the City that has sent us into an age of austerity!
She shat on the small people and treated them with derision as she closed down the manufacturing industry, an industry that so many (including my family) relied on to survive and then accused these people of laziness when they desperately looked to the state as a way to feed their families.

Don't know if anyone saw Neil Kinnock on BBC news but he summed her up quite nicely. She didn't care about the ordinary people and was so entrenched in her ideology she didn't care who she stepped on to get what she wanted.

We were always that :lol: Look at how unions always try and grab money for their workers, and striking is blackmailing their bosses and in extreme cases the country. I covered the manufacturing industry elsewhere. We kind of have the same thing here. People involved in the industry are never willing to accept when it is over, it is over. You can't flog a dead horse. You can't subsidise a dying industry for the sake of a few and I was shocked during the coal miners strike how much self entitlement they had, like the government owed them a living.

 

[Robbo]

Good thread, this. Very interesting reading, from both sides.

 

[Baleforce]

people seem to be confusing the person with the party, she wasn't a tyrannical dictator, she was the figurehead of policies put together by many many people

I'm finding the personal attacks quite distasteful, especially the left wing press, today's socialist worker for example is particularly disgusting, rejoice because a little old lady had a stroke and died

 

[scaramanga]

people seem to be confusing the person with the party, she wasn't a tyrannical dictator, she was the figurehead of policies put together by many many people

I'm finding the personal attacks quite distasteful, especially the left wing press, today's socialist worker for example is particularly disgusting, rejoice because a little old lady had a stroke and died

That's far from the most offensive thing about the Socialist Worker.

 

[Baleforce]

That's far from the most offensive thing about the Socialist Worker.

i've never read it, only saw the cover, I can only imagine what their narrative is

 

[parklane1]

She turned us all into selfish money grabbing fluffy bunnies cuddlings!
She created the monster in the City that has sent us into an age of austerity!
She shat on the small people and treated them with derision as she closed down the manufacturing industry, an industry that so many (including my family) relied on to survive and then accused these people of laziness when they desperately looked to the state as a way to feed their families.

Don't know if anyone saw Neil Kinnock on BBC news but he summed her up quite nicely. She didn't care about the ordinary people and was so entrenched in her ideology she didn't care who she stepped on to get what she wanted.

Sums the situation up very well.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Excellent post - best on this side of the forum in a long time. Here, have some internets.

Ha, ha, your'e easily impressed then. \o/

 

[scaramanga]

i've never read it, only saw the cover, I can only imagine what their narrative is

Neither have I - the comment was more that the very existence of such a rag if offensive. I dread to think what's written in there - hopefully her family members won't read it either.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Neither have I - the comment was more that the very existence of such a rag if offensive. I dread to think what's written in there - hopefully her family members won't read it either.

yeah she was proud of her kids one got lost in a desert and when found ran the bar dry in his hotel afterwards expecting us tax payer to pay for it then later on was a runner for an arms dealer by using his mothers name,her daughter well she got a push from the one show by being a racist.

they won't read it,why should they,they couldn't give a brick,as long as they got their homes in the country and their inheritance.

 

[Baleforce]

Neither have I - the comment was more that the very existence of such a rag if offensive. I dread to think what's written in there - hopefully her family members won't read it either.

indeed, socialist worker, thats an oxymoron if ever there was one


(thats a gag, I don't think ALL socialists are lazy)

 

[scaramanga]

yeah she was proud of her kids one got lost in a desert and when found ran the bar dry in his hotel afterwards expecting us tax payer to pay for it then later on was a runner for an arms dealer by using his mothers name,her daughter well she got a push from the one show by being a racist.

they won't read it,why should they,they couldn't give a brick,as long as they got their homes in the country and their inheritance.

Your post would suggest there's something wrong with having an inheritance. Care to expand?

 

[parklane1]

yeah she was proud of her kids one got lost in a desert and when found ran the bar dry in his hotel afterwards expecting us tax payer to pay for it then later on was a runner for an arms dealer by using his mothers name,her daughter well she got a push from the one show by being a racist.

they won't read it,why should they,they couldn't give a brick,as long as they got their homes in the country and their inheritance.

Good post.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

The main difference being that school dropouts in Surrey weren't trying to bully taxpayers into paying them graduate wages. People in Surrey retrained or went back to education - those in the North thought that if they bitched and whined long enough the government would give them another handout like they always did in the past. Fortunately that didn't happen, but it's a very slow process and even now people are still learning that one has to work for a living.

1. Yet again, people in Surrey didn't have their job base decimated. Having choices means opportunity. Having no choice does not.
2. Job opportunities/alternatives in Surrey were/are FAR better than the areas Thatcher decimated, so retraining (if its available) is far more likely to bear fruit. Redundant miners in Barnsley did not have these choices.
3. School dropouts???? I presume by that comment you mean working class people going into traditional working class jobs, i.e. mining and steel mills. Graduate wages??? Did you ever go down a pit, or into a steel mill? I went down three pits: one was Treeton (went in paddy wagons under the M1) and one was a drift mine in Notts. I also went into British Steel Stainless by the M1. All school trips, but the real deal. The working conditions were horrible. Crawling along on hands and knees in Treeton. Helmet, respirator and light. A pit prop every yard. No more than a yard high. It was terrifying. The heat in the steel mill.... jeez, I was cooked after about 20 minutes.

These people earned every penny. Then the long term illnesses suffered by them later.

If you want a better example of your comment, look no further than the newspapermen of Wapping. Demanding ridiculous wages, only they didn't suffer long term illness caused by the job, as did steel and coal men, and had far better working conditions.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Excellent post - best on this side of the forum in a long time. Here, have some internets.

Do you actually mean that?

Its dribble, and full of inaccuracy and untruth. Spouted by someone who has never been affected.

"New labour created a million extra civil service jobs mainly in the north because they wanted a new voter base"

Completely untrue. Civil service manpower has been run down steadily since the 1980's, and who instigated this in the first place... why Margaret Thatcher. Who else!