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Lucas Moura

billyiddo said:
Needs moving on and upgrading in the summer.

People say he's a good squad player but what does that mean? He doesn't threaten to earn a starting place when bought in for a run of games or change games when bought off the bench - you can't keep a player around in hope that he happens to score his 1 goal in 6 or whatever his scoring rate is, he turns over possession at an embarrasing rate and doesn't have a creative bone in his body.

He seems a nice chap and at the very least has earned a place in our folklore with the hat trick in Amsterdam but it's time to cash in
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We need to be realistic about where we are. We cant have Ronaldo on the bench. Moura, as one of the subs, is an interesting option given his pace however per my comment above, we need to move him on soon. Perhaps Sessegnon could become a similar option off the bench. I'd happily sell Moura and Lamela this summer to raise some funds
 
He hasnt scored a league goal since the start of Dec.

Granted the gap makes that seem worse, but its still abysmal.

Thanks for Ajax, but hes very very average and needs off loading.

What use is a squad player that offer not a a lot except hindering attacks.
 
AdamB said:
We need to be realistic about where we are. We cant have Ronaldo on the bench. Moura, as one of the subs, is an interesting option given his pace however per my comment above, we need to move him on soon. Perhaps Sessegnon could become a similar option off the bench. I'd happily sell Moura and Lamela this summer to raise some funds
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No use having pace if nothing comes of it, which his poor scoring record and frankly embarrassing assist/creativity record show is what happens the majority of the time he is on the ball.

The options aren't a Ronaldo level player or Moura for our squad players.
 
billyiddo said:
No use having pace if nothing comes of it, which his poor scoring record and frankly embarrassing assist/creativity record show is what happens the majority of the time he is on the ball.

The options aren't a Ronaldo level player or Moura for our squad players.
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His goalscoring record this season is poor but if you compare his record over the last 18 months or so to Alli there’s not much difference. Alli has scored more this season but he hasn’t progressed for about 3 years now. He’s not a better player than he was in 2017. Lamela has 2 league goals this season which is worse than Moura. He’s never scored more than 5 league goals in a campaign.

Im not advocating he should start games. It’s obvious we need better. But I also think it would be plain stupid to sell him when we have a squad full of bottlers who don’t turn up in big games and Moura has at the very least proved he can come good when it matters. There’s no reason why he can’t be a bit part player in big games off the bench when we need a goal even if he offers very little else.
 
We must move Moura and Aurier on for my health sake.
Lamela is at least trying.
Dele worries me, but I still rate him.
 
Jurgen the German said:
His goalscoring record this season is poor but if you compare his record over the last 18 months or so to Alli there’s not much difference. Alli has scored more this season but he hasn’t progressed for about 3 years now. He’s not a better player than he was in 2017. Lamela has 2 league goals this season which is worse than Moura. He’s never scored more than 5 league goals in a campaign.

Im not advocating he should start games. It’s obvious we need better. But I also think it would be plain stupid to sell him when we have a squad full of bottlers who don’t turn up in big games and Moura has at the very least proved he can come good when it matters. There’s no reason why he can’t be a bit part player in big games off the bench when we need a goal even if he offers very little else.
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You don't throw away a squad position on a player that might score a goal in a certain type of fixture, once in a blue moon, if everyone better than him is unavailable.
 
billyiddo said:
You don't throw away a squad position on a player that might score a goal in a certain type of fixture, once in a blue moon, if everyone better than him is unavailable.
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It’s more than once in a blue moon. He’s scored away at Liverpool, City, United, Barcelona and Ajax. Unless you name another big game player we have im all ears. He’s offered more than Lamela on the whole. And whilst I accept Alli is a better footballer, he just hasn’t progressed in the last 3 years. Whether that’s his fault or ours I really don’t know. He can’t play in deep midfield. The only position where he is an asset is off the striker.
 
Decent place in the air, quick and good work rate. Can we convert him to RB??

He’s a decent bench option as his pace becomes more of a threat in open games and tiring defences but it really is a case of him reacting to his own touches rather than having influence over them. Wonder what he’d fetch in the market now if we did cash in?
Mourinho seems to really like him though, I think Bergwijn looks to have a better all round game and should start ahead of him.
The other thing with Moura is that as a right footer I thought he’d be better cutting in from the left but he struggles even more on that side.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It’s more than once in a blue moon. He’s scored away at Liverpool, City, United, Barcelona and Ajax. Unless you name another big game player we have im all ears. He’s offered more than Lamela on the whole. And whilst I accept Alli is a better footballer, he just hasn’t progressed in the last 3 years. Whether that’s his fault or ours I really don’t know. He can’t play in deep midfield. The only position where he is an asset is off the striker.
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You're talking about 5 games/moments from 2.5 seasons - sorry but that's not enough to mask over his limitations as a footballer. Big games goals or not.
 
billyiddo said:
You're talking about 5 games/moments from 2.5 seasons - sorry but that's not enough to mask over his limitations as a footballer. Big games goals or not.
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If we can sign someone who is a better footballer, offers more end products, creates, scores more AND does it in big games then great. I’d be happy to discard Moura but let’s not get rid of him until we actually have that player in our possession. Would make far more sense to sell Lamela given his lack of end product and injury record but we will probably end up offering him another contract extension and wonder why always us when he breaks down in training again.
 
Yet he does create openings. At least 2 goal scoring opportunities in each of the last two games came from his runs. I wouldn't have him starting but as a rotation option. But he's more potent than Lamela imo. Good call converting him to RB. He'd be an awesome right back. Potentially better than Walker.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If we can sign someone who is a better footballer, offers more end products, creates, scores more AND does it in big games then great. I’d be happy to discard Moura but let’s not get rid of him until we actually have that player in our possession. Would make far more sense to sell Lamela given his lack of end product and injury record but we will probably end up offering him another contract extension and wonder why always us when he breaks down in training again.
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I think we'd quite comfortably find a wide forward who could better his poor 1 in 6+ goals per game ratio - we've likely already done that with Bergwijn. With regards to all-round play i think we'd struggle to find a worse creative/team player than him.
 
billyiddo said:
I think we'd quite comfortably find a wide forward who could better his poor 1 in 6+ goals per game ratio - we've likely already done that with Bergwijn. With regards to all-round play i think we'd struggle to find a worse creative/team player than him.
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Agreed, but I think Lamela offers even less and if we’re going to replace one of the AM’s then he should be the one to go. Never scored more than 5 league goals (Moura scored 10 last season which is hardly terrible) and never got close to being one of the top assisters in the league either. Eriksen was always one of the top 5 or so IIRC. Only Ozil and Silva have assisted more than Eriksen over the least 7-8 years I believe.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Agreed, but I think Lamela offers even less and if we’re going to replace one of the AM’s then he should be the one to go. Never scored more than 5 league goals (Moura scored 10 last season which is hardly terrible) and never got close to being one of the top assisters in the league either. Eriksen was always one of the top 5 or so IIRC. Only Ozil and Silva have assisted more than Eriksen over the least 7-8 years I believe.
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I'm not really interested in turning this in to a comparison between players, i don't evaluate Mouras ability as a footballer based on how others perform and realistically most of our current first XI needs to be upgraded, let alone our squad options so Moura over Lamela or vice versa is tit for tat.
 
billyiddo said:
I'm not really interested in turning this in to a comparison between players, i don't evaluate Mouras ability as a footballer based on how others perform and realistically most of our current first XI needs to be upgraded, let alone our squad options so Moura over Lamela or vice versa is tit for tat.
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The point is we have FAR bigger areas of concern than Moura (particularly in his position amongst other players in the squad), specifically DM, CB, LB and RB.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The point is we have FAR bigger areas of concern than Moura (particularly in his position amongst other players in the squad), specifically DM, CB, LB and RB.
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That's not the point you have been discussing? If it was i would have agreed, DM,CB and fullbacks are more important than upgrading a backup WF.

No reason why we can't upgrade there at the same time however - another player like Bergwijn, or better, to call on next season and our attacking play might not be as frustrating as it has been lately.
 
billyiddo said:
That's not the point you have been discussing? If it was i would have agreed, DM,CB and fullbacks are more important than upgrading a backup WF.

No reason why we can't upgrade there at the same time however - another player like Bergwijn, or better, to call on next season and our attacking play might not be as frustrating as it has been lately.
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Down the line in maybe 12 months or so I’d agree we should look on upgrading Moura/Lamela or both but right now our immediate concern should be DM and a new back line in its entirety, although I’d keep Dier for now and Davies as a backup. DM is the most critical position we need to strengthen. I think we’re giving ourselves too much work to do in 1-2 windows if we look on replacing Moura as well. We’ve been burnt in the past trying to bring in too many players in one window.
 
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