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Jose Mourinho

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by mjc23, 20 Nov 2019.

  1. Huddy

    Huddy Clint Dempsey

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    Offering my cartilage to the King.
    I think you're right here and Mourinho has moved into career damage mode to protect his legacy, where it's everyone else's fault but his own as he knows his time at Spur's is fast approaching it's disappointing conclusion.
     
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  2. Raziel

    Raziel Johnny Morrison

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    Mate, the media is saying exactly that .. it's clickbait brick at it's best

    West Ham will end where they usually do, outside of European spots but safe, and yes vs. recent years that is an improvement but comparing Moyes to Jose is a stretch to be kind. I put Leeds and Wolves there because they are both sides that I wouldn't consider a walkover for midlevel sides, on their day they can cause upsets, in West Ham's next 8 games, I saw one easy one.

    Losing in the league is on Mourinho, he said he can't fix everything on his own, not he can't fix things. Not interested in a defence of Jose conversation because he has to be accountable for results, but to make an issue of those two statements? he needs a better CB, and the ones he has needs to stop falling asleep once a match (an issue they have had way before him), his record suggest his coaching is pretty good (and it was a prompted question btw).
     
  3. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Chris Perry

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    What if it is? What if we're like Sunderland, another impossible job?
     
  4. AdamB

    AdamB Colin Calderwood

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    Exact repeat of his time at Utd (though with £100m rather than £400m spent)
     
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  5. AdamB

    AdamB Colin Calderwood

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    Obviously no quotes or anything, but as has been reported elsewhere....



     
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  6. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Vedran Corluka

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    Just read the article. The Athletic is first class compared to some other rags so they have credibility.

    A lot of what is apparently coming out of the dressing room is exactly the stuff that people on here have said. No attacking plan, it's just boot it to Sonny and Kane and hope they work some magic, it's all about nullifying the opposition rather than playing to our strengths and he's not working them hard enough in training.
     
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  7. elltrev

    elltrev Didier Zokora

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    I read the article too. If true (and, like you, I think The Athletic has some credibility), most of it is worrying.

    I found the stuff about not working them hard enough in training a bit weird / annoying though, if it was the same players complaining about being worked too hard by Poch.
     
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  8. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Vedran Corluka

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    After Tottenham lost their fifth Premier League game out of six, Jose Mourinho insisted that the methods that he and his coach staff use are “second to nobody in the world”. But the reality inside the Spurs dressing room is that some players are unhappy with training sessions they think are too defensive, too focused on the opposition, and not as intense as they were used to under Mauricio Pochettino.

    The Athletic has learned from multiple dressing room sources that although Mourinho has not lost the whole dressing room yet, some of the team are increasingly unhappy with his approach. This disquiet is starting to tell in terms of results. Having started the season brilliantly and been top of the Premier League in December, Spurs have taken just 12 points from their last 12 league games. They have sunk to ninth in the table, raising questions about the direction under Mourinho.

    It is 15 months since Mourinho replaced Mauricio Pochettino. And while the Argentinian’s relationship with the players had broken down by his sixth season at the club, some senior players now look back fondly at that era. A section of players who used to complain about Pochettino’s double sessions and rare days off now wish they were working harder, although the impact this COVID-19-affected season is having on training loads cannot be ignored.

    Some of the attacking players, who feel that Mourinho’s training is too focused on defence and on not making mistakes, are unhappy with how little focus there is on coaching complex offensive patterns. Some attacking players have even remarked privately that they are still reliant on moves and finishes in the final third that they learned and honed under Pochettino because there has been so little detailed attacking work under Mourinho.

    Fundamentally, this comes down to a difference in approach between Pochettino and Mourinho. Pochettino’s whole philosophy came down to a positive, dominant style of play, the positional game, and his training was built around helping his players to understand it, to play it and to perfect it.

    Mourinho’s whole approach is different. Rather than mastering one particular style of play, he is focused on developing and executing a different plan for every opponent. This means that training is largely focused not on Spurs’ own game, but on how to exploit the weaknesses in whomever they are playing next. Training will be tailored towards the specific scenarios Mourinho expects to face, and the mistakes he does not want his players to make or does want to trigger in the opposition. Players have remarked that as they get closer to every game, the atmosphere is increasingly based on fears of what might go wrong, and Mourinho’s insistence that the players must be careful at all times, only playing out or taking risks under certain circumstances.

    At times, this pragmatic work has proven useful, as the players have developed gameplans that have proved successful. Mourinho has recorded impressive counter-attacking plans that have brought wins against Emirates Marketing Project, Manchester United and Arsenal, masterclasses in reactive football that took Spurs to the top of the table. But at times, some players have grown bored and frustrated with how much time Mourinho will focus on one particular aspect of the game — hours spent working on how to defend throw-ins when they are preparing to face Liverpool, for example, or on perfecting attacking crosses from deep positions before playing West Ham United. One source said the players are at risk of a “tactical overload”.
     
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  9. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Vedran Corluka

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    So much attention on nullifying the strengths of the opponent means that Tottenham do not focus as much time on developing and improving their own attacking game. The priority is defence and counter-attack. Numerous sources say this is why Spurs’ attacking football has looked limited at times this season because there is no plan for how to build out from the back, play through the thirds and create chances in the opposition box.

    In that sense, it is the polar opposite of how Pochettino works. Now in charge of Paris Saint-Germain, he always had a clearly structured method for moving the ball forward from one end of the pitch to the other, how the goalkeeper plays the ball, where the centre-back splits and drops to, where the full-back moves to, and so on. With Mourinho, there is no such coordinated plan. “Everything has changed, even the training is so defensively minded now,” one dressing-room source says. “There is no plan to move the ball forward. The plan is to defend, boot the ball up to Harry Kane and Son Heung-min, and that’s it.”

    This is an issue that has followed Mourinho around his last few jobs. He has been routinely accused of not coaching attacking patterns in the way that his modern rivals do. Jurgen Klopp, Antonio Conte, Pep Guardiola and Pochettino all work in this way, instilling patterns that help their teams unpick opponents in the final third. Mourinho’s own approach of “guided discovery”, hoping his players would be good enough to find the right combinations, has worked when Kane and Son have been at their best, as proven by some incisive counter-attacking performances earlier this season. But it also has its limitations, as shown by Spurs’ struggles to create good chances against deep-lying defences.

    The other major change between Pochettino and Mourinho concerns workload and intensity. Pochettino worked the players famously hard, with hardly any days off and double sessions pencilled in every time the players had a free week. It was necessary to get the players fit enough to play Pochettino’s style of play, but there is no point pretending that the players enjoyed it at the time. They did not, and often complained about the workload, especially during the end of Pochettino’s tenure.

    Mourinho’s approach is different. Players have noticed that there are fewer double sessions than before, and more days off, with days off sometimes used as a reward after victory. Multiple sources have questioned whether the intensity of Mourinho’s sessions can ever replicate match situations. When Spurs finally had a free week in the build-up to the FA Cup game against Wycombe Wanderers on 25 January, some of the players were relieved to have finally been worked hard.

    Of course, Mourinho is operating in the unique circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic. There were only five weeks between the end of the last Premier League season and the September 2020 international break. They have already played 40 games in all competitions so far this season, with the possibility of another 23 to come if they go the distance in the Europa League. They have played more matches than any side in Europe’s top five leagues this season, so Mourinho has been forced to manage the physical loads of his entire squad to keep them fit through an exhausting calendar. No team in the world is training or playing as intensely now as they did before the pandemic.

    Another view is that this was a team that was in decline before Mourinho arrived, whose declining performances in the Premier League in 2018-19 were masked by their unlikely run to the Champions League final. And that Mourinho’s job of transforming the meteorology of these players, most of whom were here under Pochettino, still needs more time to deliver consistent results. Spurs are in the Carabao Cup final, almost in the Europa League last 16, and not out of European contention in the league. This season can still end well. Mourinho’s first season at Manchester United was not much fun at points but it still ended with the League Cup and Europa League trophies, and a place in the following year’s Champions League.

    But ultimately, right now, Mourinho’s mixture of analysis, defensive work and tactical drills designed for each opponent is not prompting the right response in the Tottenham players.

    When Mourinho was asked last Wednesday what he would be doing in training to iron out the defensive errors that have undermined Tottenham’s season, he replied that he would be sending the players more clips on their phones for them to mull over, before more individual analysis meetings and then a session to prepare them for Wolfsberger AC in the Europa League.

    “Everything we can, everything we can,” Mourinho said. “Starting with players receiving on their own phones and iPads immediately analysis of all the situations. So they can read, they can analyse by themselves. Then the individual meeting analysing every situation and trying to improve every situation. Then on the pitch, we managed to have two good training sessions today and yesterday. Yesterday, they had individual work with (first-team assistant) Ledley King and the staff. And then today, we had a collective session in relation to the game tomorrow. Work: that’s the only thing that we can do to try to improve.”

    But Tottenham’s decline in form recently suggests that Mourinho’s methods are not having the desired effect, despite what he said in his press conference after the West Ham game on Sunday.

    When Mourinho arrived in English football in 2004, he was a revolutionary. His approach of tactical periodisation, with everything geared towards the game itself, had been very successful in Portugal and worked just as well in England too. Players loved the fact that everything Mourinho did had an application, and everything was with the ball. His methods were wildly successful: Chelsea won the 2004-05 Premier League, 95 points, 15 goals conceded, before retaining it the following era.

    That was almost 17 years ago and other coaches now think that Mourinho’s rivals have caught up with him. The idea of all training being with the ball is no longer new, especially as other managers set new standards for technical football at the top of the league.

    Mourinho’s other great strength when he first arrived, of meticulous attention to detail and rigorous analysis of his opponents, has itself been eroded now that every Premier League club has its own analysis department.

    And then Mourinho’s powers of motivation, the psychological tricks and games he plays with players to provoke the right response — what he calls “confrontational leadership” — have consistently shown to be less effective with this generation of players than they were with his great Chelsea, Porto and Inter Milan teams. At Spurs, Tanguy Ndombele has responded well to Mourinho’s methods, and Kane, Son and Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg have shone this season, but plenty of other players have plateaued or declined since Mourinho took over. This generation of players does not always respond to psychological triggers as the last generation did.

    Mourinho now finds himself — 15 months, three transfer windows, and 75 matches — into his Tottenham reign, complaining that there are “problems in the team that I cannot resolve by myself as a coach”. And yet he must also know that the only route out of this situation is to win games. We will all know soon enough whether Mourinho’s coaching methods remain as good as he still thinks they are.
     
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  10. elltrev

    elltrev Didier Zokora

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    There is one quote in the article:

    “Everything has changed, even the training is so defensively minded now,” one dressing-room source says. “There is no plan to move the ball forward. The plan is to defend, boot the ball up to Harry Kane and Son Heung-min, and that’s it.”
     
  11. Raziel

    Raziel Johnny Morrison

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    The question on that would be timing, I find it hard to believe that in last 3-4 weeks we haven't been working on attacking plays (considering how we are playing).
     
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  12. elltrev

    elltrev Didier Zokora

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    Yeah possibly - I've certainly been glad that we've at least been trying to play a more attacking brand of football.
     
  13. billyiddo

    billyiddo Willie Hall Staff Member

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    We've played teams that sit back primarily and we have put extra attacking bodies on the pitch - so we're naturally positioned higher up with more attack minded players available to get on the ball - that isn't evidence of there being a plan being worked on on the training pitch.

    That's not to say it isn't being worked on but there's no evidence as of yet that it is.
     
    Last edited: 23 Feb 2021
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  14. Raziel

    Raziel Johnny Morrison

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    This is absolute flimflam, Poch style at it's best has
    - Yes, FB's forward with a DM falling back to cover
    - Pressing game, typically with a higher line
    - Possession game

    Where Poch's game failed in my opinion was there wasn't much in the final 3rd movements, honestly our strategy was get to Eriksen and hope for the best, or have Toby hoof direct. Kane, Son & Dele did the rest (similar to how it is now minus Dele)

    Compare that to a Pool or even Leicester where there are clearly motions to get the ball (quite direct) to front runners.
     
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  15. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Frederic Kanoute

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    I wouldn't be surprised at West ham finishing in an EL place, not because they are that great but because everyone else other than city has been very up and down.
    They along with a few other teams will revert back to the norm next season but with higher expectations that could be their downfall.
    It's been a strange season and not one to judge much on imv.
     
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  16. Raziel

    Raziel Johnny Morrison

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    Not impossible and they are well placed, but they will need to keep the run going (not many have had truly extended runs this season)
     
  17. Diamond Lights

    Diamond Lights Gheorge Popescu

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    think a lot of people will be in for a surprise if they think West Ham will dissolve and fall back. They're good at what they do, they won't beat City or United probably but again there's a reason they are where they are.
     
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  18. MKSpur

    MKSpur Steve Carr

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    No hostile and toxic fan base present to put the players off?? (I do know WHL would be pretty horrific right now too!)
     
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  19. Diamond Lights

    Diamond Lights Gheorge Popescu

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    Think it's more than that. Moyes isn't trying to entertain, he doesn't need to either. Dont forget this team flirted with relegation last year.

    He's bought players to fit his sytem, defensively solid (Coufal), two midfielders to protect and batter (especially Soucek). West Ham have conceded less than Man U, Everton, Liverpool, but two more goals than us. They don't score buckets, nor is the system designed to, but get this, they've scored more than us this season which should come as a surprise given our attacking players and the fact they have one converted winger as their only striker.

    Each player knows his role, his position, and what the philosophy is for the team (basically have Antonio run into the opposing defence and free up players behind like Lingard).

    I just don't get how we can sit here and accept falling behind West Ham. It was "the players fault" at Chelsea and Man U. Those same players now under Ole for example seem to be performing mostly (Pogba, Shaw for example).
     
  20. AdamB

    AdamB Colin Calderwood

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    Thats my biggest problem with Mourinho, along with taking a group of players and making it play to less than the sum of its parts. They're somewhat linked, but are manager flaws in Mourinho - they're core components of a manager's role. We need a manager to install a system and make players better
     

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