Jordon Peterson

[DTA]

I am a left leaning liberal… but I find myself agreeing with his viewpoints On a lot of subjects.

so the real question is is Jordon Peterson a non partisan political commentator who can appeal to the right the left and most importantly the center or is it simply the case that @scaramanga has turned me? No homo

just to be completely clear the ‘no homo’ reference is a conscious ironic wink to hip hop culture and not homophobic. Although it could be argued that hip hop culture in reference to the term ‘no homo’ is infact homophobic.

hmmm note to self: don’t post new topics on this forum while drinking.

anyway… Jordon Peterson?

 

[Jurgen the German]

I was unaware of him until I saw him on Bill Maher’s Real Time. Ever since I’ve sought interviews, podcasts etc that he has appeared on. He just seems to talk a lot of common sense. If you have a chance, watch his brilliant interview on channel 4 where they talk about a number of subjects like trans, income inequality etc. The interviewer is completely out of her depth and spends the interview virtue signalling, Peterson is way too intellectually out of her league and even stumps her when she asks him why freedom of speech is more important than peoples feelings.

Ive got his book ‘12 rules for life’ but haven’t read it yet. It’s meant to be a good read.

 

[AuroRaman]

I think he uses a lot of words to say very little. I don’t think he himself is alt/far right at all but unfortunately his work is breeding and feeding a lot of males’ already insidious views on feminism, sexuality and race. You only need to look online at the comments under his videos and articles about him.

 

[Rorschach]

I think he uses a lot of words to say very little. I don’t think he himself is alt/far right at all but unfortunately his work is breeding and feeding a lot of males’ already insidious views on feminism, sexuality and race. You only need to look online at the comments under his videos and articles about him.

This is where I landed too. His sophistry takes a little while to see through as he pads it with a few basic truths which are mostly uncontentious, but as you say he talks a lot and actually says almost nothing. But what he does say when you separate the chaff can be quite bigoted and dangerous. He's a charlatan.

 

[AuroRaman]

This is where I landed too. His sophistry takes a little while to see through as he pads it with a few basic truths which are mostly uncontentious, but as you say he talks a lot and actually says almost nothing. But what he does say can be quite bigoted and dangerous. He's a charlatan.

Bro Psychology. I saw a video of him recently where he said ‘let children do dangerous things carefully’. And that statement was treated like the second coming of Socrates.

My Nan once said that to my Mum when she was being too cautious with me…

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

This guy is nothing more than a fascist booster.

 

[scaramanga]

I am a left leaning liberal… but I find myself agreeing with his viewpoints On a lot of subjects.

so the real question is is Jordon Peterson a non partisan political commentator who can appeal to the right the left and most importantly the center or is it simply the case that @scaramanga has turned me? No homo

just to be completely clear the ‘no homo’ reference is a conscious ironic wink to hip hop culture and not homophobic. Although it could be argued that hip hop culture in reference to the term ‘no homo’ is infact homophobic.

hmmm note to self: don’t post new topics on this forum while drinking.

anyway… Jordon Peterson?

Don't blame me, I've never read or heard anything by the guy.

The only reason I know he exists is because people here bring him up and he gets mentioned (in negative terms) on an American podcast I listen to.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Bro Psychology. I saw a video of him recently where he said ‘let children do dangerous things carefully’. And that statement was treated like the second coming of Socrates.

My Nan once said that to my Mum when she was being too cautious with me…

You’d think that would be conventional wisdom but it’s not these days. I just read the Coddling of the American Mind which is about the attack on freedom of speech at American colleges and parents raising their children with good intentions but bad ideas. There’s an entire chapter on kids not playing outside as much as they used to which is stunting their ability to make their own risk assessment which is a vital part of growing up and a skill you need later in life.

Peterson makes a lot of points which seem like common sense to me but appear to be controversial ideas in 2022. In the channel 4 interview he discussed the pay gap with the interviewer and explained that a big chunk of the gap can be attributed to the fact that men and women choose different jobs, the fact that men are more ruthless when going after jobs and pay rises and also that women aren’t at liberty to go after high salary jobs as their careers get interrupted due to raising families.

 

[AuroRaman]

You’d think that would be conventional wisdom but it’s not these days. I just read the Coddling of the American Mind which is about the attack on freedom of speech at American colleges and parents raising their children with good intentions but bad ideas. There’s an entire chapter on kids not playing outside as much as they used to which is stunting their ability to make their own risk assessment which is a vital part of growing up and a skill you need later in life.

Peterson makes a lot of points which seem like common sense to me but appear to be controversial ideas in 2022. In the channel 4 interview he discussed the pay gap with the interviewer and explained that a big chunk of the gap can be attributed to the fact that men and women choose different jobs, the fact that men are more ruthless when going after jobs and pay rises and also that women aren’t at liberty to go after high salary jobs as their careers get interrupted due to raising families.

The points about jobs. As @Rorschach stated, these are basic truths which are not wholesale indicators that the gender pay gap is a myth or explainable by these small sample points. Also, it’s 2022, women are at liberty to get any job they so choose irrespective of salary and whether they want to start a family. The fact they still have to consider that should be an valid argument that the pay gap exists and undermines women.

Cathy Newman is an exceptional and credible journalist who had an off day when interviewing Peterson. Unfortunately you now see videos online of it with titles like ‘JORDAN PETERSON DESTROYS WOKE VIRTUE SIGNALLING FEMINAZI’ as a homage to his brilliance. It shows the level of the audience he is attracting.

Your first paragraph. I agree completely about children playing less outdoors stunting a range of abilities that generations before them were able to nurture. That doesn’t make Peterson’s statement any more credible alongside the great works of Plato. That’s literally common sense. He’s just stating it to a larger audience than most of us.

Edit: @Jurgen the German I absolutely agree with the first sentence of your second paragraph. It’s a sad indicator of where we are as a species that someone spitting common sense 101 is regarded as one of the great minds of our time.

 

[Lilbaz]

You’d think that would be conventional wisdom but it’s not these days. I just read the Coddling of the American Mind which is about the attack on freedom of speech at American colleges and parents raising their children with good intentions but bad ideas. There’s an entire chapter on kids not playing outside as much as they used to which is stunting their ability to make their own risk assessment which is a vital part of growing up and a skill you need later in life.

Peterson makes a lot of points which seem like common sense to me but appear to be controversial ideas in 2022. In the channel 4 interview he discussed the pay gap with the interviewer and explained that a big chunk of the gap can be attributed to the fact that men and women choose different jobs, the fact that men are more ruthless when going after jobs and pay rises and also that women aren’t at liberty to go after high salary jobs as their careers get interrupted due to raising families.

You also have to remember most top jobs are held by people in their 60s. So went to university 40 years ago. Where it was less common for women to study business than men.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Never heard of the guy. But to me, it highlights a trend that we are seeing, and these types get air because they fill a vacant space. People are finding overly zealous political righteousness a little tiring/nauseating. While nannying liberals are less dangerous than their inverse-image bigots, the two are comparable. You get leftist zealots too, who can not wait to condemn others and assert often tenuous causes (while ignoring other more worthwhile issues). This guy no doubt taps into a need to redress that balance. He is a product therefore of modern 'liberalism' ironically.

 

[Lost Mango]

You’d think that would be conventional wisdom but it’s not these days. I just read the Coddling of the American Mind which is about the attack on freedom of speech at American colleges and parents raising their children with good intentions but bad ideas. There’s an entire chapter on kids not playing outside as much as they used to which is stunting their ability to make their own risk assessment which is a vital part of growing up and a skill you need later in life.

Peterson makes a lot of points which seem like common sense to me but appear to be controversial ideas in 2022. In the channel 4 interview he discussed the pay gap with the interviewer and explained that a big chunk of the gap can be attributed to the fact that men and women choose different jobs, the fact that men are more ruthless when going after jobs and pay rises and also that women aren’t at liberty to go after high salary jobs as their careers get interrupted due to raising families.

But these things are taken into account in the most pay gap analysis and females with no families, no interruptions etc get paid or offered less than men of equivalent experience. He is using a non-fact that appears to be common sense to justify something that he can't actually defend. It is controversial because it is outdated gonad*s that he is trying to sell.

 

[Lilbaz]

But these things are taken into account in the most pay gap analysis and females with no families, no interruptions etc get paid or offered less than men of equivalent experience. He is using a non-fact that appears to be common sense to justify something that he can't actually defend. It is controversial because it is outdated gonad*s that he is trying to sell.

That is against the law in the uk if they do. If they are doing the same job.

The thing is the jobs they do are different. Security guards, construction workers, warehouse workers are more likely to be men as the jobs are physically demanding. As they are more physically demanding then the pay usually reflects that. Receptionists, pa's, supermarket checkout workers are more likely to be women. That isn't sexism. There is nothing to say a woman can't be a constuction worker or a man a receptionist and there are a few. But most don't. They go for jobs they think will suit them. So often women will be paid less than men. But that is their choice.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

That is against the law in the uk if they do. If they are doing the same job.

The thing is the jobs they do are different. Security guards, construction workers, warehouse workers are more likely to be men as the jobs are physically demanding. As they are more physically demanding then the pay usually reflects that. Receptionists, pa's, supermarket checkout workers are more likely to be women. That isn't sexism. There is nothing to say a woman can't be a constuction worker or a man a receptionist and there are a few. But most don't. They go for jobs they think will suit them. So often women will be paid less than men. But that is their choice.

To get equal pay you don’t need to be doing the same job, a job of equal importance merits equal pay (can’t recall the exact terminology). There was a case against a supermarket in recent years for paying One type of worker (it may have been warehouse workers who as you say are most likely predominantly male vs another role which was mainly women). When you get into office or management type roles pay tends to be set according to bands which usually have significant stretch and an exact wage isn’t usually specified when a position is advertised. Employment contracts usually express confidentiality around salary so it can be difficult to get a true picture of what peers are earning.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The points about jobs. As @Rorschach stated, these are basic truths which are not wholesale indicators that the gender pay gap is a myth or explainable by these small sample points. Also, it’s 2022, women are at liberty to get any job they so choose irrespective of salary and whether they want to start a family. The fact they still have to consider that should be an valid argument that the pay gap exists and undermines women.

Cathy Newman is an exceptional and credible journalist who had an off day when interviewing Peterson. Unfortunately you now see videos online of it with titles like ‘JORDAN PETERSON DESTROYS WOKE VIRTUE SIGNALLING FEMINAZI’ as a homage to his brilliance. It shows the level of the audience he is attracting.

Your first paragraph. I agree completely about children playing less outdoors stunting a range of abilities that generations before them were able to nurture. That doesn’t make Peterson’s statement any more credible alongside the great works of Plato. That’s literally common sense. He’s just stating it to a larger audience than most of us.

Edit: @Jurgen the German I absolutely agree with the first sentence of your second paragraph. It’s a sad indicator of where we are as a species that someone spitting common sense 101 is regarded as one of the great minds of our time.

Have you ever heard of Christina Hoff Sommers? She essentially says the same things which go some way to explaining the pay gap; women choose jobs that are lower in pay. A petroleum engineer will earn more than a nurse or a social worker. Society has bricky priorities, but it’s not because women are being cheated. Also, feminists don’t bring up the fact that a lot of dangerous jobs like roofing for example. Men are more likely to die whilst at work. That’s not me crying about being a man, but life is a complex mix of advantages and disadvantages. Men are also more willing IMO to work more punishing hours at law firms for example, that’s not to say women don’t work hard, but more men work crazy hours than women.

 

[Grays_1890]

I have a sociology and phycology degree and the guy is much debated.

The problem he has is people drill down on certain areas of his comments and not listen to what he is saying. For example he believes in equality of opportunities and everyone having the same number of opportunities regardless of sex, race etc and letting that take its course, but he is very anti equality of outcome aka regardless of ability we level up 50/50 men and women in work places etc. So people jump on the latter as a basis to say he is a racist or misogynist but they dont listen to his reasoning.

He is also anti the philosophy that you keep drilling down and putting people into loads of sub groups in society in order to bring society closer because it does not work, it creates great divide, was famous as part of his free speech Canada fight he had when they tried to force him and Universities to engage in every sexual sub group and he refused.

Hugely intelligent man who has clinical background that supports his points, its like anything though, sometimes people don't want to hear the truth behind the history of the sciences if it contradicts their beliefs in sex or religion etc

I read alot of him and Stephen Fry on life etc and they are both up there for me in being able to cut through the flimflam, in fact they have a very similar view on political correctness and the world gone nuts, there is a hugely famous debate where they are on the same side and they absolutely put the leftists in their place. They have some great streams out now where they talk about religion etc, worth a watch on youtube

An Atheist in the Realm of Myth | Stephen Fry | Jordan B Peterson Podcast - S4: E22 - YouTube

 

[Lilbaz]

To get equal pay you don’t need to be doing the same job, a job of equal importance merits equal pay (can’t recall the exact terminology). There was a case against a supermarket in recent years for paying One type of worker (it may have been warehouse workers who as you say are most likely predominantly male vs another role which was mainly women). When you get into office or management type roles pay tends to be set according to bands which usually have significant stretch and an exact wage isn’t usually specified when a position is advertised. Employment contracts usually express confidentiality around salary so it can be difficult to get a true picture of what peers are earning.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...men-celebrate-victory-Asda-equal-pay-bid.html

That's the case you were talking about. Personally think it's gonad*s. The warehouse workers should demand they rotate. 1 week in the warehouse 1 week working the till. See how equal they think the jobs are then.

 

[Grays_1890]

Peterson makes a lot of points which seem like common sense to me but appear to be controversial ideas in 2022. In the channel 4 interview he discussed the pay gap with the interviewer and explained that a big chunk of the gap can be attributed to the fact that men and women choose different jobs, the fact that men are more ruthless when going after jobs and pay rises and also that women aren’t at liberty to go after high salary jobs as their careers get interrupted due to raising families.

But he is also right, but people don't want to believe the truth. He explains the facts behind the reasoning he does not say "women should earn less" he explains why it exists and why in many cases why its not as people say. For example the gender pay gap is often exasperated at a C-Suite level and not at the level where the majority of society sits where the gaps are less and those amounts of millions in pay gap distort the figures. He is also very pro self choice and as you say people choose different jobs and its personal choice but for example when talking equality people drone on about it but do they want all that comes with it AKA do we want to see 50/50 women and men on building sites, do women want that? Women have alot of stumbling blocks to life but as do Men so do we want to take away the issues women have only to equalise them with the problem men me face such as you are more like to face violence as a man than a women etc and he is right in my opinion. Alot of arguments, on both sides are cherry picked to suit the point being made but there is alot of simplified reasoning, life is tough, why should it not be? Its hard for me and its hard for women.

 

[Lilbaz]

The main one for me is that nurses should be paid a lot more. Also why in this country can child minders only look after 3 kids while in europe it's 6? Change those 2 things and the pay gap will shrink a bit.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The main one for me is that nurses should be paid a lot more. Also why in this country can child minders only look after 3 kids while in europe it's 6? Change those 2 things and the pay gap will shrink a bit.

100% they should. As I said before, society has s h i t t y priorities, that’s not womens fault, that’s just how it is.