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Uighur treatment in China

spurspinter1 said:
Like Ba says (more succinctly than I would have tbh), Money has more value than real values. I don't want this to devolve in to a left / right thing but it's not an arab state with oil so is it really just that we're not interested as we'd only stand to lose out financially? Doing the right thing isn't going to be the most profitable but surely having a world free of this kind of tyranny is better than the stock markets performing better than expected.
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i'm not convinced that the money/economic reason is the cause of the lack of action globally on this matter tbh. there was/is a general apapthy from the west re the rohingya muslim issue, and it looks similar this time around. and there wasn't an economic carrot on the line there. like i've said earlier, in many western/g8 etc countries, there is an apathy on muslim plights amongst the general population (for the reasons mentioned in previous posts) - therefore there is no demand/desire for governments to involve themselves here (after all, how often have governments been blamed for involving themselves in countries where they shouldn't have).

I've just seen today that kanoute has posted on another incident where he feels an islamic country is under attack, and there is inaction from the rest of the world.

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im not aware of the background to this particular incident, but again, theres not as much economically on the line here (compared to china), but little action globally. If you look at the twitter comments to posts such as this, ozil's, demba ba's, you'll notice that the vast majority of comments are from users with names of middle eastern origin - ie. unless these cases impact you/people of your religion, its unlikely that you'll actually care too much about this.

anecdotally, and i accept that this is from my perspective only (but i suspect that others have similar experiences) - amongst my friends/family/colleagues, i've spoken very little about the uighur/china issue - i'm just not sure that non-muslim people really "care" in any noticeable volume. its unfortunate, but there's probably more interest in the huawei ban than uighurs in the uk.
 
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Wilheldiva said:
i'm not convinced that the money/economic reason is the cause of the lack of action globally on this matter tbh. there was/is a general apapthy from the west re the rohingya muslim issue, and it looks similar this time around. and there wasn't an economic carrot on the line there. like i've said earlier, in many western/g8 etc countries, there is an apathy on muslim plights amongst the general population (for the reasons mentioned in previous posts) - therefore there is no demand/desire for governments to involve themselves here (after all, how often have governments been blamed for involving themselves in countries where they shouldn't have).

I've just seen today that kanoute has posted on another incident where he feels an islamic country is under attack, and there is inaction from the rest of the world.

View attachment 9207

im not aware of the background to this particular incident, but again, theres not as much economically on the line here (compared to china), but little action globally. If you look at the twitter comments to posts such as this, ozil's, demba ba's, you'll notice that the vast majority of comments are from users with names of middle eastern origin - ie. unless these cases impact you/people of your religion, its unlikely that you'll actually care too much about this.

anecdotally, and i accept that this is from my perspective only (but i suspect that others have similar experiences) - amongst my friends/family/colleagues, i've spoken very little about the uighur/china issue - i'm just not sure that non-muslim people really "care" in any noticeable volume. its unfortunate, but there's probably more interest in the huawei ban than uighurs in the uk.
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Good post

TBH I have the news on for a good hour in the morning and neither topic came up. The Uighur treatment rarely gets covered in the TV or paper media considering the scale which is baffling.

Is the lack of reporting of Gaza for example race lead? I equally never see news reports of when Palestine send balloon bombs and I am more pro Palestine even as a Jew before people start. Maybe that conflict is so historical and long that it makes no sense to report on it every day?
 
Wilheldiva said:
i'm not convinced that the money/economic reason is the cause of the lack of action globally on this matter tbh. there was/is a general apapthy from the west re the rohingya muslim issue, and it looks similar this time around. and there wasn't an economic carrot on the line there. like i've said earlier, in many western/g8 etc countries, there is an apathy on muslim plights amongst the general population (for the reasons mentioned in previous posts) - therefore there is no demand/desire for governments to involve themselves here (after all, how often have governments been blamed for involving themselves in countries where they shouldn't have).

I've just seen today that kanoute has posted on another incident where he feels an islamic country is under attack, and there is inaction from the rest of the world.

View attachment 9207

im not aware of the background to this particular incident, but again, theres not as much economically on the line here (compared to china), but little action globally. If you look at the twitter comments to posts such as this, ozil's, demba ba's, you'll notice that the vast majority of comments are from users with names of middle eastern origin - ie. unless these cases impact you/people of your religion, its unlikely that you'll actually care too much about this.

anecdotally, and i accept that this is from my perspective only (but i suspect that others have similar experiences) - amongst my friends/family/colleagues, i've spoken very little about the uighur/china issue - i'm just not sure that non-muslim people really "care" in any noticeable volume. its unfortunate, but there's probably more interest in the huawei ban than uighurs in the uk.
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Did he tweet much about rockets being fired at houses in Israel?
 
scaramanga said:
Did he tweet much about rockets being fired at houses in Israel?
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Thats the point isn't it, Kanoute has posted from his own bias but not evened up the balance with the point you made, which then gives people the platform to claim media bias. What is this case is proved is the bias is very even in its reporting or at least is here.

Thats not to say there is no bias in the original topic
 
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Wilheldiva said:
thats both obama and trump. trump has done far more than biden/harris will to challenge china.

im not the biggest fan of trump either, but in this scenario, i think its pretty clear who would be the better president for chinese uighurs
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I agree, Trump has done far more with regards standing up to China. However, China dont give a fudge what the US or anyone else says with regards to uighurs or anything else. You could stick Obama in, Trump, Biden, Abe Lincoln or Bruce Wayne for all it matters, no sitting US president is going to affect change to internal China treatment of its people. Do you genuinely think Trump is going to save the Uighurs or something? Maybe after that he'll take on the Somali pirates too.
 
Diamond Lights said:
I agree, Trump has done far more with regards standing up to China. However, China dont give a fudge what the US or anyone else says with regards to uighurs or anything else. You could stick Obama in, Trump, Biden, Abe Lincoln or Bruce Wayne for all it matters, no sitting US president is going to affect change to internal China treatment of its people. Do you genuinely think Trump is going to save the Uighurs or something? Maybe after that he'll take on the Somali pirates too.
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we have to do what we can though, however small the impact may be (at least initially) given the potential scale of what is taking place with the uighurs currently. we've seen the uk act on huawei, which no doubt was influenced by US foreign policy towards china. if country by country, we can all assert a bit of influence on china, who knows what is possible? its good to see trump take a lead on this front regardless, and if he had a bit more support domestically, i think he could've made far more progress on the chinese front. as it stands, it looks like there will be a democratic win which probably means a reduction in whatever little hope the uighurs had
 
JerusalemMan said:
Thank you for posting again here.
I didn't want to as it was rather pitiable watching people just line up to take potshots at different faiths and dance with their own bugbears in public rather than actually talking directly about what you had said.
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It’s predictable but a shame nonetheless. Wouldn’t want to be against an open discord but it does seem like people would rather get in to a “But what about when....” tinkling contest. I don’t think I can make any more salient points than Ba has but at least if a few more folks become aware it’s at least a small step.

If anyone was aware of a big petition to at least get it put on the table officially parliament - wise please post it here and I’ll get on that. Better than doing absolutely nothing but anyone can feel free to spend more time deliberating which religion they reckon is the most dodgy on here instead if it helps.
 
spurspinter1 said:
It’s predictable but a shame nonetheless. Wouldn’t want to be against an open discord but it does seem like people would rather get in to a “But what about when....” tinkling contest. I don’t think I can make any more salient points than Ba has but at least if a few more folks become aware it’s at least a small step.

If anyone was aware of a big petition to at least get it put on the table officially parliament - wise please post it here and I’ll get on that. Better than doing absolutely nothing but anyone can feel free to spend more time deliberating which religion they reckon is the most dodgy on here instead if it helps.
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This is the biggest petition I could find. Would be great if we could all sign it. Its not much but maybe something.

I have already signed.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300146
 
spurspinter1 said:
It’s predictable but a shame nonetheless. Wouldn’t want to be against an open discord but it does seem like people would rather get in to a “But what about when....” tinkling contest. I don’t think I can make any more salient points than Ba has but at least if a few more folks become aware it’s at least a small step.
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I think it's valid and important to analyse why there is less international uproar about it.

It's clearly an atrocity but in the West, fairly sure there would be more who cared if it were Uighur people rather than Uighur Muslims.

spurspinter1 said:
If anyone was aware of a big petition to at least get it put on the table officially parliament - wise please post it here and I’ll get on that. Better than doing absolutely nothing but anyone can feel free to spend more time deliberating which religion they reckon is the most dodgy on here instead if it helps.
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I'm not sure enough people will want to give up their cheap overseas manufacturing to make a difference.

I recently had a conversation with a customer about the difficulty of working with China, both in a business and non-business sense. But they save £4m a week in costs by manufacturing out there - there's almost nothing that could stop them.
 
scaramanga said:
I recently had a conversation with a customer about the difficulty of working with China, both in a business and non-business sense. But they save £4m a week in costs by manufacturing out there - there's almost nothing that could stop them.
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I think when you have economies and regimes that are unpenetrable because A they divven care and B they are economically viable on their own then there is not too much you can do really and as you rightly say when people are gaining who cares? Im sure you would find rich footballers who would not care about their money coming from oppressive and criminal regimes.

Im not saying its right or wrong just the way of the world.

Didnt Kanoute play in China for a while?
 
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scaramanga said:
I think it's valid and important to analyse why there is less international uproar about it.

It's clearly an atrocity but in the West, fairly sure there would be more who cared if it were Uighur people rather than Uighur Muslims.


I'm not sure enough people will want to give up their cheap overseas manufacturing to make a difference.

I recently had a conversation with a customer about the difficulty of working with China, both in a business and non-business sense. But they save £4m a week in costs by manufacturing out there - there's almost nothing that could stop them.
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I get what you mean but Muslims are people too ya know!!

It’s whether being aware of things really helps, I’d bet a lot of daily mail readers aren’t even familiar...

Business wise it’s the whole set up isn’t it, lockdown has showed us we could do with producing more in the UK. On the one hand it’s tough but on the other it’s just numbers on a machine, shouldn’t be complicit with a nation that is acting inhumanely without remorse.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
spurspinter1 said:
I get what you mean but Muslims are people too ya know!!
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Sort of. I don't consider the religious as whole people as one of the things that makes people better than animals is the ability to have independent and analytical thought. The religious forego that.

spurspinter1 said:
Business wise it’s the whole set up isn’t it, lockdown has showed us we could do with producing more in the UK. On the one hand it’s tough but on the other it’s just numbers on a machine, shouldn’t be complicit with a nation that is acting inhumanely without remorse.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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We've all but priced ourselves out of manufacturing in this country. Paying the best part of £10/hr for unskilled and uneducated labour is simply preposterous.
 
scaramanga said:
Sort of. I don't consider the religious as whole people as one of the things that makes people better than animals is the ability to have independent and analytical thought. The religious forego that.


We've all but priced ourselves out of manufacturing in this country. Paying the best part of £10/hr for unskilled and uneducated labour is simply preposterous.
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How do you know they are religious?
 
LutonSpurs said:
It isn't. You will meet lots of non religious Jews and Christians. It's how we identify.

My point stands. You don't have to be religious to be Muslim.
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I disagree entirely except the part about Jews. Jewish and Israeli are used interchangeably, Muslim is used to describe someone of Islamic faith.

Whilst I understand we're in the era of tolerance for how people identify, I could claim to be a giraffe until I'm blue in the face - it doesn't make me a giraffe.
 
LutonSpurs said:
It isn't. You will meet lots of non religious Jews and Christians. It's how we identify.

My point stands. You don't have to be religious to be Muslim.
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I think that is it - there isn't one form of faith even within one religion. Post September 11th Islam has had some pretty bad press. All of it based around a kind of death cult that makes for some compelling viewing. To talk about 'Muslims' or Islam as one homogeneous group is something some posters do, but of course that is far from the case.

You have Muslims like Luton for whom its a cultural identity more than a faith. As he says there are lots of jews who are the same. At the same time, there are Hasidic 'ultra-orthodox' jews who believe being gay can be cured. Islam has Sufis who are more like buddhists in their beliefs - interested in mysticism, poetry and teaching stories.

Has no one mentioned Tibet? China has been molesting its largely Buddhist neighbour for decades and it doesn't get much press. It is not a religious thing. It is the empire abusing its smaller factions.
 
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