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Happy birthday Mr. Hoddle!

I honestly don't understand the fuss with what he said and thought it was blown WAY out of proportion - and Im sure I'd say the se no matter who said it (I never saw Hoddle play btw) personally i see it as an interesting theory (not sure if that's the right word) not something to get bent out of shape over

Saying that someone who has a disability has one because in a past life has made mistakes seems a pretty terrible thing for me to say.

Not only is it basically saying it's their fault (he does say it in a gentler manner but it's still the same meaning) but it's condescending to say that a non-disabled person has made less mistakes than a disabled person before they have even born.

I have disabled relatives and think that for anyone to say it's their fault for what they did in a previous life is disgusting.

And even if it is acceptable to belief that, which I don't think it is, there was absolutely no need for him to offer his real opinion or even comment on it.
 
I don't see why it matters that it's his religious belief? If they're misguided and wrong then that is his problem. No one else is responsible for that. Same as no one else is responsible for what he said.

If Jack Wheelchair was to come out and say what he said tomorrow no one on here would defend him, no one would say "It's not him it's his religion!" the place would be labeling him as the w**ker he would have showed himself up to be.

Perhaps calling Hoddle scum of the earth is over the top but a condescending uneducated w***ker he most certainly is. If you don't believe me, tell any disabled person what Hoddle said and see if they find it acceptable. As I said, just because he was a great Spurs player shouldn't make him immune to criticism.

I'm sure all the people defending him are the ones who have seen him play and therefore have bias towards him.

Pretty much all of the eastern religions believe in reincarnation. Would you say the same of their followers?

What about Christians who say that suffering is GHod's will or who campaign against safe sex?

I agree that Hoddle's opinions are misguided and I'll thought out but you start condemning a lot of people when you take the line you are taking.

Or do we just condemn the ones who are stupid enough to express it inarticulately?
 
Mountains were made out of molehills by the press over Hoddle's words and they did so because they wanted him out of the England job. When he came into the job he immediately stopped a lot of access to the players by the press boys and they did not like it, they were used to seeing the players when they wanted and Glenn stopped all that and imposed a certain time and length for their meetings.

They could not drum up enough reason to get rid by his results so they started a witch hunt and this " quote" was part of it. Hoddle made it easy for them by speaking like he did but as I say it was mountains out of molehills, and to call him the scum of the earth is hysterical at best.
 
Pretty much all of the eastern religions believe in reincarnation. Would you say the same of their followers?

What about Christians who say that suffering is GHod's will or who campaign against safe sex?

I agree that Hoddle's opinions are misguided and I'll thought out but you start condemning a lot of people when you take the line you are taking.

Or do we just condemn the ones who are stupid enough to express it inarticulately?

Almost all religions do say ridiculous things yes but not usually about a group of society that's already has to put up with a lot of misconceptions, prejudice and lack of empathy throughout all of history. And I believe that any one who does is an insensitive a**hole.

Again, even if you do have such beliefs than what good does stating it even do?
 
Almost all religions do say ridiculous things yes but not usually about a group of society that's already has to put up with a lot of misconceptions, prejudice and lack of empathy throughout all of history. And I believe that any one who does is an insensitive a**hole.

Again, even if you do have such beliefs than what good does stating it even do?

I don't hold any truck with Hoddle's religious views and think that he was an idiot for expressing them but given the billions of people on the planet who believe in karma and reincarnation, why should he be singled out for criticism?

The major religions that hold a belief in reincarnation, however, are Asian religions, especially Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism, all of which arose in India.

They all hold in common a doctrine of karma(karman; “act”), the law of cause and effect, which states that what one does in this present life will have its effect in the next life. In Hinduism the process of birth and rebirth—i.e., transmigration of souls—is endless until one achieves moksha, or liberation (literally “release”) from that process.Moksha is achieved when one realizes that the eternal core of the individual (atman) and the Absolute reality (brahman) are one. Thus, one can escape from the process of death and rebirth (samsara).

Jainism—reflecting a belief in an eternal and transmigrating life principle (jiva) that is akin to an individual soul—holds that karma is a fine particulate substance that settles upon the jiva according to the deeds that a person does. Thus, the burden of the old karma is added to the new karma that is acquired during the next existence until the jiva frees itself by religious disciplines, especially byahimsa (“nonviolence”), and rises to the place of liberated jivas at the top of the universe.

Although Buddhism denies the existence of an unchanging, substantial soul or self—as against the notion of the atman it teaches the concept of anatman (Pali: anatta; “non-self”)—it holds to a belief in the transmigration of the karma that is accumulated by an individual in life. The individual is a composition of five ever-changing psycho-physical elements and states, or skandhas (“bundles”)—i.e., form, sensations, perceptions, impulses, and consciousness—and terminates with death. The karma of the deceased, however, persists and becomes a vijnana (“germ of consciousness”) in the womb of a mother. The vijnana is that aspect of consciousness that is reborn in a new individual. By gaining a state of complete passiveness through discipline and meditation, one can achievenirvana, the state of the extinction of desires and liberation (moksha) from bondage tosamsara by karma.

Sikhism teaches a doctrine of reincarnation based on the Hindu view but in addition holds that, after the Last Judgment, souls—which have been reincarnated in several existences—will be absorbed in GHod.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/reincarnation
 
Maybe his true understanding didn't allow his thoughts to be as clear as he intended.

He doesn't seem like a malicious or hate filled individual, why not give anyone the benefit of doubt instead of overreacting and beating them with a stick.

scum really?
 
Maybe his true understanding didn't allow his thoughts to be as clear as he intended.

He doesn't seem like a malicious or hate filled individual, why not give anyone the benefit of doubt instead of overreacting and beating them with a stick.

scum really?

I think that he did something bad in a former life so was punished with a muddled mind in this.
 
Almost all religions do say ridiculous things yes but not usually about a group of society that's already has to put up with a lot of misconceptions, prejudice and lack of empathy throughout all of history. And I believe that any one who does is an insensitive a**hole.

Again, even if you do have such beliefs than what good does stating it even do?
Have another think about that.

Pretty much every major religion is anti-gay - that fits your description perfectly.
 
Steff perhaps you should forward the compilation on to the poster called "Neymar"who claimed Lampard and Gerrard are better footballers than Glenn. Tbh for me that argument summed up the problem with the England team in my life time, they have favoured athletes and work horses over footballers. Can you imagine how big Glenn would have been if he had played for a South American giant such as Brazil or Argentina? Look at the adulation that Suarez receives in Uraguay. It has always bugged me that most England fans never appreciated the talent that Glenn had. He should have been one of the international greats like Charlton, Banks and Hurst. Instead we lauded Brian Fokking Robson. The modern English footballers seem so ordinary in comparison. Funnily enough Glenn was appreciated more by fans from other countries, and players as different as Johan Cruyff, Roy Keane and Dennis Berkamp. Anyway rant over.

Top man. When did ol' Neymer claim that? Muppetry innit! Yes, Robson...the most overrated midfielder of his generation.
 
I don't see why it matters that it's his religious belief? If they're misguided and wrong then that is his problem. No one else is responsible for that. Same as no one else is responsible for what he said.

If Jack Wheelchair was to come out and say what he said tomorrow no one on here would defend him, no one would say "It's not him it's his religion!" the place would be labeling him as the w**ker he would have showed himself up to be.

Perhaps calling Hoddle scum of the earth is over the top but a condescending uneducated w***ker he most certainly is. If you don't believe me, tell any disabled person what Hoddle said and see if they find it acceptable. As I said, just because he was a great Spurs player shouldn't make him immune to criticism.

I'm sure all the people defending him are the ones who have seen him play and therefore have bias towards him.

Right.
First off, glad you can finally acknowledge he was a great player. He was. You hadn't done before.
Secondly, I understand it is a touchy subject for you. Trust me, he has never been immune to criticism here as a manager at least, when many (myself included) will tell all the moaners here who volley off all the time about every little thing that (in fact) the GREATEST tragedy in our history HAS to be Glennda's inability/bad luck as our manager.
Thirdly, absolutely correct, I do have a bias towards him because he formed the center point of my ST years.
Fourthly, and again, I think you should research him a bit more beyond the stitch-up (members of the FA wanted him out because he was a bit kooky/Eileen and all that)...his charity work is huge. I agree, if this actually is his deep viewpoint on the disabled, then it is absolute total ignorance, but my friend, I have to tell you, I think anyone who adheres to a religious code with any degree of strength is buying into something which suggests ignorance, furthermore, reincarnation is such a huge abstract that unless you're tripping I think you're bonkers to even waste time thinking about it. I will say that the greatest ever 'reincarnation' imagination happens in The Acid House when GHod reappears a massive drunk Sweaty at some bar and turns a lazy, slovenly sack of brick into a poo fly as punishment!

Here, by the way, is the interview Hoddle gave after all that storm. I think it is a much fairer representation of what happened than the stitch up interview. I wouldn't claim he isn't still confused (and seeking) but in that aspect of life, he joins millions who appear to feel every single thing in life must have a simple and easily-processed answer (something I don't believe by the way)...

Anyway best to you mate...Steff

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Inter...,+I'm+Not+Cruel;+Hoddle:+I+hope...-a060394337
 
Mountains were made out of molehills by the press over Hoddle's words and they did so because they wanted him out of the England job. When he came into the job he immediately stopped a lot of access to the players by the press boys and they did not like it, they were used to seeing the players when they wanted and Glenn stopped all that and imposed a certain time and length for their meetings.

They could not drum up enough reason to get rid by his results so they started a witch hunt and this " quote" was part of it. Hoddle made it easy for them by speaking like he did but as I say it was mountains out of molehills, and to call him the scum of the earth is hysterical at best.

On the money. i remember it well. I was appalled by all of it.
 
Along with Whiteside, Mcgrath ( allegedly) :)
I don't think there is anything allegedly about it. It was pretty common knowledge they were all tinkle heads.

I always thought there were lots of similarities between McGrath and King. Two of the best defenders that played in the modern era - both had dodgy as fudge knees, both like to over do it on the booze - and both lauded by their peers for their excellence but less so by the mainstream media.
 
I don't think there is anything allegedly about it. It was pretty common knowledge they were all tinkle heads.

I always thought there were lots of similarities between McGrath and King. Two of the best defenders that played in the modern era - both had dodgy as fudge knees, both like to over do it on the booze - and both lauded by their peers for their excellence but less so by the mainstream media.

Your right of course but I always play on the safe side me. We nearly signed him when he left Utd but his old lady did not want to come to London ( another one like Barmby who never wore the trousers in his house).
 
"I used to drive home from Manchester United training along the M56 and there was a left turn for Wilmslow, where I lived, and a right turn for Hale, where Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson lived. I used to say that it was left for under three pints a night and right for more than ten." - Gordon Strachan
 
I don't think there is anything allegedly about it. It was pretty common knowledge they were all tinkle heads.

I always thought there were lots of similarities between McGrath and King. Two of the best defenders that played in the modern era - both had dodgy as fudge knees, both like to over do it on the booze - and both lauded by their peers for their excellence but less so by the mainstream media.

Was King a tinklehead or was he unlucky to be photographed leaving a nightclub with his eyes a swonk a couple of times?
 
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