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Giovani Lo Celso

Finney Is Back said:
Is disagree with that.... Lo Celso did nothing at all in the first half and not much more in the second half. Toby was better than him, Dier was better than him, Moura was better than him, Aurier was better than him. Lo Celso's performance was probably on par with Winks (who we all know isn't good enough to start for Spurs) and Hojbjerg (who I think is burnt out after a very long season).

I don't really see Lo Celso as a starting player for a top 6 level team and definitely not a top 4 level team (let alone a title challenging team). As Lamela's squad place replacement he's likely to be an upgrade however as he surely can't be injured as often as Lamela is?

We need to act like a big club this summer and go out and get a physical, yet skillful, player who can dominate the midfield. Soumare has 1 year left on his contract at Lille and would be the perfect partner for Hojbjerg and allow us to play a truly creative player in Ndombele further forward where his skill and creativity can shine.
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Fair enough, I can accept most of that, other on a par with winks.
I thought Glc had a couple of really good touches that turned us from under pressure to breaking up the park. At least one of mouras fouls came from a Glc pass, a pass worthy of city.
For all the stick Glc, lamela and in the past Moura get, they would not put in toothless, anemic displays like that in a training game nevermind a cup final.

As for big club. Totally agree.
I have one criticism of Levy, he is scared of sucess. Can we afford to be serial winners.
He brick the bed when we got CL final and I think poch was got rid of because his ambitions were too high for Levy.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Is disagree with that.... Lo Celso did nothing at all in the first half and not much more in the second half. Toby was better than him, Dier was better than him, Moura was better than him, Aurier was better than him. Lo Celso's performance was probably on par with Winks (who we all know isn't good enough to start for Spurs) and Hojbjerg (who I think is burnt out after a very long season).

I don't really see Lo Celso as a starting player for a top 6 level team and definitely not a top 4 level team (let alone a title challenging team). As Lamela's squad place replacement he's likely to be an upgrade however as he surely can't be injured as often as Lamela is?

We need to act like a big club this summer and go out and get a physical, yet skillful, player who can dominate the midfield. Soumare has 1 year left on his contract at Lille and would be the perfect partner for Hojbjerg and allow us to play a truly creative player in Ndombele further forward where his skill and creativity can shine.
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FWIW since Lo Celso signed for us he has missed 189 days through injury whilst Lamela has been absent for a mere 131 days.

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StephenH said:
Scared of going bust, maybe, success nah!
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I'm a Levy fan, I honestly think he's the best chairman we could have.
But I think he got spooked at our climb under poch.
We can't compete in the transfer market with the big clubs, and I don't think anyone seriously expects us to. But sacking a manager just after he got us to the biggest game in club football and then sacking another one one game before a cup final is odd behaviour.
Considering Jose is a winner, has a proven record in the biggest games, and was Levy dream manager for so long, to sack him when he has an opportunity to end the trophy drought, prove you were right to change the last manager, is that not odd?
And to put in a complete rookie?
Against Pep and City, the best team a d manager in the county?
Don't get me wrong, I never wanted Jose, I saw it as a huge gamble and it was stacked in Jose favour.
It will be easy for jose to say he did not fail, he just wasn't allowed to succeed.
 
Baleforce said:
I think he's only played 30 odd games too.
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Knocking on 50 according to Wiki, although few will have been for 90 minutes - which is a worry, as is his injury record.

I’d definitely agree that there are quite a few others who need to go before we think about him.
 
glasgowspur said:
I'm a Levy fan, I honestly think he's the best chairman we could have.
But I think he got spooked at our climb under poch.
We can't compete in the transfer market with the big clubs, and I don't think anyone seriously expects us to. But sacking a manager just after he got us to the biggest game in club football and then sacking another one one game before a cup final is odd behaviour.
Considering Jose is a winner, has a proven record in the biggest games, and was Levy dream manager for so long, to sack him when he has an opportunity to end the trophy drought, prove you were right to change the last manager, is that not odd?
And to put in a complete rookie?
Against Pep and City, the best team a d manager in the county?
Don't get me wrong, I never wanted Jose, I saw it as a huge gamble and it was stacked in Jose favour.
It will be easy for jose to say he did not fail, he just wasn't allowed to succeed.
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I think they were both sacked for the same reason, I'd say the same for AVB too, the relationship was broken and they didn't want to be here anymore, it was Levy ripping the bandaid off.

I don't think he got out of bed last week knowing he was going to sack Jose, I think that decision was reached during a conversation between the two.
 
Mikey10 said:
Knocking on 50 according to Wiki, although few will have been for 90 minutes - which is a worry, as is his injury record.

I’d definitely agree that there are quite a few others who need to go before we think about him.
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He’s started 37 games in his 2 seasons at Spurs but completed the 90 minutes only 13 times.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gio.../liga/0/wettbewerb//pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1

Eriksen averaged more minutes every season with us than Lo Celso has managed in 2 seasons.
 
Baleforce said:
I think they were both sacked for the same reason, I'd say the same for AVB too, the relationship was broken and they didn't want to be here anymore, it was Levy ripping the bandaid off.

I don't think he got out of bed last week knowing he was going to sack Jose, I think that decision was reached during a conversation between the two.
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Building the stadium and our profile has led us to be considered a big club. A club that will compete for and win trophies.
The last two managers have got us to the cusp of that under the constraints Levy has put on them.
When they have started asking for more support to kick on they've been kicked out.
As I said I like Levy and wouldn't Swop him, but he needs to make a decision. Does he want success, and if he does how much is he prepared to pay for it.
A lot is spoken about Kane and son leaving if we don't win anything, well what about managers.
Managers want to win trophies as well, and it is going to get harder to attract the right one.
 
glasgowspur said:
Building the stadium and our profile has led us to be considered a big club. A club that will compete for and win trophies.
The last two managers have got us to the cusp of that under the constraints Levy has put on them.
When they have started asking for more support to kick on they've been kicked out.
As I said I like Levy and wouldn't Swop him, but he needs to make a decision. Does he want success, and if he does how much is he prepared to pay for it.
A lot is spoken about Kane and son leaving if we don't win anything, well what about managers.
Managers want to win trophies as well, and it is going to get harder to attract the right one.
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There are only three ways that we are going to achieve success....

1. Luck out on an incredible manager who happens to also have some sort of incredible network of scouting (like Arsenal did with Wenger). Chances of that?.... <1%

2. Bring in the best DoF in the world and a good young, forward thinking coach, get Levy as far away as possible from transfers (he can set an overall wage and transfer budget and then butt out).

3. The owners dilute their holding in the club to enable funds to be injected for transfers so that we can immediately compete for players with the top 10 clubs in Europe). The initial injection of players here may get us back into the CL and we could perhaps be reasonably self sustaining from then on with our large stadium revenue, combined with CL revenue and (hopefully) finally a stadium sponsor. This summer could also be a brilliant time to opt for this after the pandemic and the situation in France with their broadcaster pulling out. It appears that Liverpool's owners have realised this opportunity exists, I doubt ours will follow suit unfortunately.

The second option won't even hurt Levy and Lewis in their most precious of places (their wallets) but will mean Levy ceding a lot of control (and I wonder whether that sort of thing is equally as painful for Daniel as hurting his wallet?)
 
glasgowspur said:
I'm a Levy fan, I honestly think he's the best chairman we could have.
But I think he got spooked at our climb under poch.
We can't compete in the transfer market with the big clubs, and I don't think anyone seriously expects us to. But sacking a manager just after he got us to the biggest game in club football and then sacking another one one game before a cup final is odd behaviour.
Considering Jose is a winner, has a proven record in the biggest games, and was Levy dream manager for so long, to sack him when he has an opportunity to end the trophy drought, prove you were right to change the last manager, is that not odd?
And to put in a complete rookie?
Against Pep and City, the best team a d manager in the county?
Don't get me wrong, I never wanted Jose, I saw it as a huge gamble and it was stacked in Jose favour.
It will be easy for Jose to say he did not fail, he just wasn't allowed to succeed.
Click to expand...

Stadium and Covid were as close as you can get to the perfect storm. Money is a winner. Pepe with money is unbeatable. Pep is a good manager add the money, bingo!

Jose was just an aberration.
I think Jose upset too many 'expensive' players?
 
He needs a run of games were he is fit and not recovering from injury or carrying injury, which has been the case since he has been here.
I'd give him next season to prove himself, if he doesn't or he gets further injuries it's time to sell. We don't want another Lamela where
seven seasons later we're still waiting for him to have an injury free run and prove himself.
 
glasgowspur said:
I'm a Levy fan, I honestly think he's the best chairman we could have.
But I think he got spooked at our climb under poch.
We can't compete in the transfer market with the big clubs, and I don't think anyone seriously expects us to. But sacking a manager just after he got us to the biggest game in club football and then sacking another one one game before a cup final is odd behaviour.
Considering Jose is a winner, has a proven record in the biggest games, and was Levy dream manager for so long, to sack him when he has an opportunity to end the trophy drought, prove you were right to change the last manager, is that not odd?
And to put in a complete rookie?
Against Pep and City, the best team a d manager in the county?
Don't get me wrong, I never wanted Jose, I saw it as a huge gamble and it was stacked in Jose favour.
It will be easy for jose to say he did not fail, he just wasn't allowed to succeed.
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Also sacked George Graham just before a cup final - pretty much the first thing
 
I actually though Lo Celso was one of our better players in the final and isn’t someone I’d write off just yet. He’s not an Erisken replacement imo and his injury seems to have been one serious one which is taking a while to get him fully fit. One of his attributes is his energy but he’s also decent enough technically to progress is from deep. He’s not going to score long range goals, take fks or score that many goals from what I’ve seen. The conundrum is how to fit him Ndombele and Hojbjerg into the same team but therein lies the rub with changing managers. We just don’t have a goalscoring long range shooting number 10 out of the 4 or 5 players who have been tried there this season. The best fit for the role is Kane, which I still think is a viable solution if we get rid off a couple of the options we have tried to fund a half decent striker to play with Kane.
 
MKSpur said:
I actually though Lo Celso was one of our better players in the final and isn’t someone I’d write off just yet. He’s not an Eriksen-sen-sen replacement imo and his injury seems to have been one serious one which is taking a while to get him fully fit. One of his attributes is his energy but he’s also decent enough technically to progress is from deep. He’s not going to score long range goals, take fks or score that many goals from what I’ve seen. The conundrum is how to fit him Ndombele and Hojbjerg into the same team but therein lies the rub with changing managers. We just don’t have a goalscoring long range shooting number 10 out of the 4 or 5 players who have been tried there this season. The best fit for the role is Kane, which I still think is a viable solution if we get rid off a couple of the options we have tried to fund a half decent striker to play with Kane.
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That’s why we want sabitzer
 
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MKSpur said:
I actually though Lo Celso was one of our better players in the final and isn’t someone I’d write off just yet. He’s not an Eriksen-sen-sen replacement imo and his injury seems to have been one serious one which is taking a while to get him fully fit. One of his attributes is his energy but he’s also decent enough technically to progress is from deep. He’s not going to score long range goals, take fks or score that many goals from what I’ve seen. The conundrum is how to fit him Ndombele and Hojbjerg into the same team but therein lies the rub with changing managers. We just don’t have a goalscoring long range shooting number 10 out of the 4 or 5 players who have been tried there this season. The best fit for the role is Kane, which I still think is a viable solution if we get rid off a couple of the options we have tried to fund a half decent striker to play with Kane.
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Might be sacrilege, but not sure we need PEH in all games, I'd prefer to see a possession player/recycler for teams (lesser) that don't come at us.

My other issue is the front 3, can we really play 3 full out attacking players (Kane, Son +1), this usually leaves us lighter in center midfield which could be part of the issues with our inability to hold possession, dominate games.

I think there is a player in Lo Celso, we just to your point need to fit him in.
 
Raziel said:
Might be sacrilege, but not sure we need PEH in all games, I'd prefer to see a possession player/recycler for teams (lesser) that don't come at us.

My other issue is the front 3, can we really play 3 full out attacking players (Kane, Son +1), this usually leaves us lighter in center midfield which could be part of the issues with our inability to hold possession, dominate games.

I think there is a player in Lo Celso, we just to your point need to fit him in.
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Good point and I think this may have been the original intention, partner Ndombele and Lo Celso and maybe even have Penandes at the tip.
There’s also a big imbalance with the variety of different non goal scoring workhorses coming in off the right. We’ve seen against lesser teams even Walking Bale makes a difference in putting the game to bed and having more control just by offering a genuine direct threat.

The more we discuss it the more it just feels that we need to make sure the next coach is given an opportunity to balance the squad, we seem to have a few players that would be good for different systems or philosophies but none of them fit the same one! I’m not saying you don’t need a mix of attributes for different positions (think late Wenger Goons having a lot of small technical players but no destroyers) but we have a few who’ve been here a while yet we as regular observers genuinely don’t have a consensus on what their best position is, even before there is any debate on their quality or effectiveness.
 
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