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Oh, and agreed about the teams. Lotus, Mercedes, Williams, Sauber and Ferrari all look like racers. It could be a very interesting season.
 
Kobayashi should have been black-flagged.

Qualifying and race pace are two completely different aspects - don't think Grosjean would have been able to keep up with the front runners, imv
 
ArcspacE said:
Kobayashi should have been black-flagged.

Qualifying and race pace are two completely different aspects - don't think Grosjean would have been able to keep up with the front runners, imv
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Well sort of. You don't see a car on the top 2/3 rows dropping completely out of contention though. You may see someone that qualied badly dominate a race, but if you get on the top three rows, then unless you have uncontrollable tire degredation, you are going to be well in the points more often than not. Even Maldonado was setting a good pace. Grosjean completely stuffed his start but he would have had a good race imo.
 
WookieD said:
Well sort of. You don't see a car on the top 2/3 rows dropping completely out of contention though.
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Has happened many a times in the past actually

Anyway - shall be an interesting debate this season. Bottom line for me - I rather have Kimi back on the grid than another Webber, Massa or Roseberg
 
ArcspacE said:
Has happened many a times in the past actually

Anyway - shall be an interesting debate this season. Bottom line for me - I rather have Kimi back on the grid than another Webber, Massa or Roseberg
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Many times? What are you actually talking about? If you mean for 1st or even a podium finish then fair enough, you could count about 10 of last seasons races in that list. If you mean for top six placings, then it rarely happens. Grosjean was always going to be in the hunt in the top six.

I can remember Alonso qualifying well and then his car falling to pieces in the race in recent years and that's about it really. And I like having Kimi back, it gives me someone to call a **** :D
 
Unfortunately a semi-resonable/factual discussion is no longer possible as you seem to display strong irroational hate rendering any future debate difficult

May the Finn prove you wrong
 
LOL, Arcy I have been completely rational throughout. I just saw Kimi doing what I would expect anyone to have done in that Lotus yesterday. The fact that he is sledging his own car and trying to make everyone think he doesn't have a package doesn't mean you should do the same. The Lotus looks to be one of a group of cars that can perform.

In terms of Force India, STR, Marussia et al... it is absolutely right and correct that the Lotus should breeze through them in the first ten laps as they are poor cars. The only race he really had yesterday was with Kobayashi and he lost.

Edit: Just to say about the "Race Pace" thing. Look at Mercedes yesterday, they looked hot throughout practice and qualifying, then were completely off pace for the race, but were still firm contenders for the points. Pretty much every single GP I can remember since being a kid has been locked out at top with 1/2/3 or maximum 4 cars setting a completely different pace to the rest of the field. It's the way of it, it always has been really. It just turns into a series of mini-battles half the time.
 
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You made a massive assumption that Grosjean would have challenged for a podium in that car - what exactly is that rationale based on? Lotus have been hardly dominant this season in testing or even free-practice for that matter.

He also finished ahead of the 'superior' Sauber of Perez.

You can spin it any way you want but he had a very good race in an average car having been away for 2 years and having schemed through most articles this morning - that appears to be the consenus. You're letting your strong dislike rule your judgment.

I'm also willing to bet with you he'll finish above Grosjean in November.
 
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ArcspacE said:
You made a massive assumption that Grosjean would have challenged for a podium in that car.
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HAVE I?! I said that Grosjean would be challenging around the pack, not for podium. My exact words "Grosjean was always going to be in the hunt for top six"... I thought that would be pretty clear mate!

As for where they're going to finish, the two of them, you would have to expect Kimi to finish above him as he is vastly more experienced and also the better driver. Grosjean's last stint in F1 was far from succesful. But then the lad seems to have far more heart and you need that if you're going to be scrapping all season. As much as Kimi may outclass his partner, I could just as likely see him becoming disinterested in his "poor" car and going through the motions by the end of the season.
 
There's no point even looking at it at the moment as none of the cars will be the full package. Are the FIA going to find anything wrong with Mercedes rear wing? Will the rest of the pack follow on with a similar aero package?

Then you look at the Ferrari, I think it's a testament to Alonso's ability that he keeps dragging that car into the positions he does. Everyone is banging on about Massa, but he isn't a terrible driver. There's more to it. Alonso is a great driver, possibly the best driving today (it pains me to admit it as I'm stoically English in my support in F1), Ferrari are producing a shoddy car by their own standards and Massa is no Alonso, not bad, just not exceptional.

Testing is one thing but racing is another beast all together. I would expect Lotus to be having a very good scrap with both Sauber and Williams and depending on what happens in the next two months, Mercedes and Massa as well. Alonso will be out of reach though, as will Redbull and Maclaren (even Webber!).
 
WookieD said:
Then you look at the Ferrari, I think it's a testament to Alonso's ability that he keeps dragging that car into the positions he does. Everyone is banging on about Massa, but he isn't a terrible driver. There's more to it. Alonso is a great driver, possibly the best driving today (it pains me to admit it as I'm stoically English in my support in F1), Ferrari are producing a shoddy car by their own standards and Massa is no Alonso, not bad, just not exceptional.
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That Ferrari is a fudging dog. Not only does it have no pace but it shreds tyres - Alonso found some good pace in it on the mediums but they didn't last at all.

If they're not careful, that car is going to do massive damage to their brand - not the advertisement that it's meant to be.
 
scaramanga said:
That Ferrari is a fudging dog. Not only does it have no pace but it shreds tyres - Alonso found some good pace in it on the mediums but they didn't last at all.

If they're not careful, that car is going to do massive damage to their brand - not the advertisement that it's meant to be.
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Brundle made a good point the other day. Since testing procedures have been tightened (and ultimately levelled up for the smaller teams) and Ferrari can no longer just take a car or any new part off production and run it on the test track out of the back doors, they have been slipping.
 
ArcspacE said:
You're right - he's worse :)

Absolutely baffling how he's kept his seat the past 2 season. Massive sponsor no doubt but surely there must be limits!
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Weeeell, if you take 2009 out of the picture, seeing as he got hit in the head by half of Barrichellos car and cut his season early (he was leading Kimi for points up until then though)... Kimi and Massa were head to head in the same car for only two full seasons. Massa beat him in the first season, Kimi won the second... Doesn't say much for hero boy if you think that Massa is worse than terrible :-"

Having said that, he has been poor the last two seasons. You have to wonder whether the dread of seeing massive chunks of car careering towards his head hasn't affected him, as he isn't the same racer. Either way, the Ferrari is a poor car and Alonso is a superior driver.
 
Kimi won the title in his first season, not second. He then regressed and fcuked out.

Oh, and it wasn't half of Rubens's car that hit him (that would have meant certain death due to blunt trauma injury) but a piece of his front suspension spring - about the size of a medium rolling pin. ;). Doubt he saw it coming at all, tbh.

He was always going to be second fiddle in that team much like his previous Brazilian buddy was ordered around to drop races for many years. Never managed to escalate beyond that and now seems to have fallen to a bottom-half level driver.
 
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ArcspacE said:
Oh, and it wasn't half of Rubens's car that hit him (that would have meant certain death due to blunt trauma injury) but a piece of his front suspension spring - about the size of a medium rolling pin. ;). Doubt he saw it coming at all, tbh.
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You South African's don't get things like exaggeration do you!
 
Not a Sarfie but I tried it earlier with you in the thread and it didn't quite work ;)

This thread should be an interesting one this season. Looking forward to hopefully a little more exctitement and intrigue
 
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ArcspacE said:
Not a Sarfie but I tried it earlier with you in the thread and it didn't quite work ;)

This thread should be an interesting one this season. Looking forward to hopefully a little more exctitement and intrigue
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Oh, was that not you really throwing the toys out of the pram when I called your boyfriend a **** then :D

I like a good spar in F1. I cannot stand Ferrari, never have and never will. Whilst I like their drivers, I love to see them fail. We need a Ferrari fanboy on here that I can have a go at :)
 
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