Fabrice Muamba

[parklane1]

People most certainly have the right to be arseholes. No laws against that.

Of course people have a right to be arseholes they are like opinions everyone has got one. But being a arsehole does not give you the right to be a drunken racist bigot on teletext, and hopefully this particular arsehole who got what he deserved, will be a lesson to other aresholes who think they can do the same and get away with it.

 

[parklane1]

An inalienable right to be an arsehole? Is that written into our (unwritten) constitution?

That's a new one.

So he's being made an example of?

Guess what.....I don't give a fudge.

Frankly, anything that makes ****s like this young lad think twice about repeatedly behaving like ****s has to be a good thing.

All the hand wringing civil rights talk is just melodramatic overreaction. This isn't the thin end of the wedge. It's just decency and solid values, for once, getting the upper hand.

Could not agree more, one of the biggest problems with our country is that the hand wringers, social workers, bleeding heart liberals are always giving excuses for those who do wrong.If more of these toerags who spout their brick and cross the line faced being punished it would deter others from doing the same.

 

[braineclipse]

Could not agree more, one of the biggest problems with our country is that the hand wringers, social workers, bleeding heart liberals are always giving excuses for those who do wrong.If more of these toerags who spout their brick and cross the line faced being punished it would deter others from doing the same.

Would that be the same bleeding heart liberals who take offense on other people's behalf and look to punish those "who stepped out of line" (quotation marks as only some have stepped out of line, not all)?

I can't speak for everyone who agrees with me and only for myself. However, I in no way defend what this person said, did or thought. He deserves to be ridiculed, argued against and, if he doesn't change his mind, he deserves losing friends and social circles. But that doesn't mean that he should go to prison. Isolating those who hold these opinions, hiding their views from the public will not make them go away.

Freedom of speech is one of the absolute foundations of our western society. Without that most of our other rights go the way of the dodo. I believe it should be defended, and since the government can hardly be trusted to fairly and justly classify what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed the best course of action is to allow as much speech as possible. The obvious exceptions being threats and encouraging violence.

And this isn't an isolated incident of freedom of speech being infringed upon in Europe lately. An English (I believe) historian is currently in prison in Austria for denying the holocaust. I believe he's wrong, he's probably insensitive although I haven't read his works but he doesn't deserve prison. Ireland now has laws outlawing blasphemy! Absolutely laughable, and goes a long way towards showing that many European countries should get freedom of speech into proper laws and regulation sooner rather than later.

 

[parklane1]

Would that be the same bleeding heart liberals who take offense on other people's behalf and look to punish those "who stepped out of line" (quotation marks as only some have stepped out of line, not all)?

I can't speak for everyone who agrees with me and only for myself. However, I in no way defend what this person said, did or thought. He deserves to be ridiculed, argued against and, if he doesn't change his mind, he deserves losing friends and social circles. But that doesn't mean that he should go to prison. Isolating those who hold these opinions, hiding their views from the public will not make them go away.

Freedom of speech is one of the absolute foundations of our western society. Without that most of our other rights go the way of the dodo. I believe it should be defended, and since the government can hardly be trusted to fairly and justly classify what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed the best course of action is to allow as much speech as possible. The obvious exceptions being threats and encouraging violence.

And this isn't an isolated incident of freedom of speech being infringed upon in Europe lately. An English (I believe) historian is currently in prison in Austria for denying the holocaust. I believe he's wrong, he's probably insensitive although I haven't read his works but he doesn't deserve prison. Ireland now has laws outlawing blasphemy! Absolutely laughable, and goes a long way towards showing that many European countries should get freedom of speech into proper laws and regulation sooner rather than later.

I am not sure that i understand your first point, i was pointing out that there are many who want to give excuses to those that step out of line/ break the law. You only have to see how many "slaps on the hand" "community service" "fines" that are handed out to persistent offenders, with the excuses given by the hand wringers "they come from a broken home" they were unloved" etc etc.

No one ( not me anyway) is trying to do away with freedom of speech, however with that hard earned right must come some responsibility to act like a decent human being and not a drunken racist bigot. If these people think that " freedom of speech" gives them the right to spout racist comments on Twitter then the punishment should be severe, hopefully it will ( and to many it will) stop other arseholes from doing the same.

 

[tommysvr]

Would that be the same bleeding heart liberals who take offense on other people's behalf and look to punish those "who stepped out of line" (quotation marks as only some have stepped out of line, not all)?

I can't speak for everyone who agrees with me and only for myself. However, I in no way defend what this person said, did or thought. He deserves to be ridiculed, argued against and, if he doesn't change his mind, he deserves losing friends and social circles. But that doesn't mean that he should go to prison. Isolating those who hold these opinions, hiding their views from the public will not make them go away.

Freedom of speech is one of the absolute foundations of our western society. Without that most of our other rights go the way of the dodo. I believe it should be defended, and since the government can hardly be trusted to fairly and justly classify what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed the best course of action is to allow as much speech as possible. The obvious exceptions being threats and encouraging violence.

And this isn't an isolated incident of freedom of speech being infringed upon in Europe lately. An English (I believe) historian is currently in prison in Austria for denying the holocaust. I believe he's wrong, he's probably insensitive although I haven't read his works but he doesn't deserve prison. Ireland now has laws outlawing blasphemy! Absolutely laughable, and goes a long way towards showing that many European countries should get freedom of speech into proper laws and regulation sooner rather than later.

you're making it sound like a big government conspiracy. "hiding them from the public won't make them go away" - is that what you think they're doing? He broke the law and has been punished. Hopefully it sends a strong message that this brick isn't acceptable.

The people who bang on about freedom of speech drive me mad.

 

[Lily White]

Hopefully these idiots will realise that if you act like a complete fudgewit either in life or on social networking sites, then you have to face the consequences.

 

[Yossarian]

you're making it sound like a big government conspiracy. "hiding them from the public won't make them go away" - is that what you think they're doing? He broke the law and has been punished. Hopefully it sends a strong message that this brick isn't acceptable.

The people who bang on about freedom of speech drive me mad.

:ross:

 

[Gordinho]

What he said was vile but I think 28 days prison time is OTT for being an obnoxious, drunken, provocative taco. He didn't physically hurt anyone and the only hatred he incited was against himself. Not defending him but if we all reacted and dignified absolutely outlandish statements by responding to them every time we read them there'd be even more rows on GG than there currently is. I bet there's not many people who use this board who haven't said and done incredibly stupid things when they're drunk in an attempt to wind somebody up or look big and clever at one time or another in their lives.

Someone used the old sticks and stones rhyme on here the other day and another poster responded with how vile abuse to your face can harm you and stay with you for a long time, I absolutely take that on board, but I don't buy that anyone was hurt by the vile ramblings of an drunken oaf on twitter who let his pushing of the envelope get out of control, angered and offended yes, but not hurt or traumatised. 28 days in the shovel on top of the loss of his further education, future job prospects and the possibility of daily hidings in the short term is disproportionate in my view. Shame, embarrassment and community pay back would have been far more fitting, jail time may have the opposite effect and create a sense of injustice that hardens his drunken ramblings into a genuine hatred.

All in my bumbling opinion of course.

 

[Yossarian]

What he said was vile but I think 28 days prison time is OTT for being an obnoxious, drunken, provocative taco. He didn't physically hurt anyone and the only hatred he incited was against himself. Not defending him but if we all reacted and dignified absolutely outlandish statements by responding to them every time we read them there'd be even more rows on GG than there currently is. I bet there's not many people who use this board who haven't said and done incredibly stupid things when they're drunk in an attempt to wind somebody up or look big and clever at one time or another in their lives.

Someone used the old sticks and stones rhyme on here the other day and another poster responded with how vile abuse to your face can harm you and stay with you for a long time, I absolutely take that on board, but I don't buy that anyone was hurt by the vile ramblings of an drunken oaf on twitter who let his pushing of the envelope get out of control, angered and offended yes, but not hurt or traumatised. 28 days in the shovel on top of the loss of his further education, future job prospects and the possibility of daily hidings in the short term is disproportionate in my view. Shame, embarrassment and community pay back would have been far more fitting, jail time may have the opposite effect and create a sense of injustice that hardens his drunken ramblings into a genuine hatred.

All in my bumbling opinion of course.

Tremendous post.=D>

 

[totman]

What he said was vile but I think 28 days prison time is OTT for being an obnoxious, drunken, provocative taco. He didn't physically hurt anyone and the only hatred he incited was against himself. Not defending him but if we all reacted and dignified absolutely outlandish statements by responding to them every time we read them there'd be even more rows on GG than there currently is. I bet there's not many people who use this board who haven't said and done incredibly stupid things when they're drunk in an attempt to wind somebody up or look big and clever at one time or another in their lives.

Someone used the old sticks and stones rhyme on here the other day and another poster responded with how vile abuse to your face can harm you and stay with you for a long time, I absolutely take that on board, but I don't buy that anyone was hurt by the vile ramblings of an drunken oaf on twitter who let his pushing of the envelope get out of control, angered and offended yes, but not hurt or traumatised. 28 days in the shovel on top of the loss of his further education, future job prospects and the possibility of daily hidings in the short term is disproportionate in my view. Shame, embarrassment and community pay back would have been far more fitting, jail time may have the opposite effect and create a sense of injustice that hardens his drunken ramblings into a genuine hatred.

All in my bumbling opinion of course.

Its disproportionate because he is being used as an example. Thats their point. If banging up one little c#nt stops a million others, then good. Same with the rioters.

 

[Gordinho]

Its disproportionate because he is being used as an example. Thats their point. If banging up one little c#nt stops a million others, then good. Same with the rioters.

Disproportionate isn't justice.

If karma dictates he gets a few hidings and no jobs that's one thing. Justice is supposed to equally and available to all, the law is supposed to be above karma. Defining who you make examples of based on your own personal values rather than the letter of the law isn't justice.

All in my bumbling opinion of course.

 

[Joesh]

I am sure next time, there be some fella,completely drunk, typing out a vile message and then just when hes about to press send, he will think of this guy and stop.
Cause thats what drunk people do, they think this is a bad idea and stop.

 

[Gordinho]

I am sure next time, there be some fella,completely drunk, typing out a vile message and then just when hes about to press send, he will think of this guy and stop.
Cause thats what drunk people do, they think this is a bad idea and stop.

Agree. Not sure it needed prison time to reinforce that but definitely see your line of thinking.

 

[Lily White]

I think 'being drunk' is used far too much as an excuse. Having had a few too many on a few occasions in my life I still had my sense of morals and decency even if I did make a general tit of myself. I believe these are things that he believed but the alcohol gave him the confidence to spout it out on twitter

 

[Spaceman]

you're making it sound like a big government conspiracy. "hiding them from the public won't make them go away" - is that what you think they're doing? He broke the law and has been punished. Hopefully it sends a strong message that this brick isn't acceptable.

The people who bang on about freedom of speech drive me mad.

This.

 

[Gordinho]

I think 'being drunk' is used far too much as an excuse. Having had a few too many on a few occasions in my life I still had my sense of morals and decency even if I did make a general tit of myself. I believe these are things that he believed but the alcohol gave him the confidence to spout it out on twitter

I don't think he did it because he was drunk, I think he did it because he wasn't sober, not trying to be a smartarse but I think there's a distinction. Not being sober meant he'd lost his inhibitions, the thing that stops you doing what clearly isn't right for you in the cold light of day.

 

[parklane1]

I think 'being drunk' is used far too much as an excuse. Having had a few too many on a few occasions in my life I still had my sense of morals and decency even if I did make a general tit of myself. I believe these are things that he believed but the alcohol gave him the confidence to spout it out on twitter

Would agree the bile that came out of him is there in the first place, being drunk is no excuse at all.

 

[jimmyb]

Laws generally state what isn't permitted, not what is permitted. And being and arsehole isn't illegal - luckily.

There are many reactions to brick like what this guy did that should and in my opinion will make people think twice, public reactions, reactions from his friends and family and so forth. Doesn't mean it has to be punishable by law.

This also goes much further than people voicing their opinion, a law might prevent loads of people from voicing those opinions, but that doesn't make the opinions go away. And I believe in a free marketplace of ideas of a sort, where the stupid, bigoted ideas get exposed for the world to see and ridicule. I would much rather have that than have those people form groups, voicing their opinions only in private forums where there is no one to speak against them. While at the same time feeling (rightly) persecuted for what are only thoughts and opinions to help them build their "us against them" siege mentality.



I'm not arguing that he didn't break the law as it seems to be in The UK. Nor am I arguing that "just because this was on twitter" he should go unpunished.

My question is if a law like this is a good idea. I don't think it is.

Am I right in thinking that you live in Norway?

I have no idea what it is like to live in Norway.

But I do know what it has become to live in Britain. And the sad truth of the matter is that this country is now overrun by proliferating numbers of yobs who say and do what they please, without regard for any other human being. And the reason that they do so is that nothing is ever done to stop them.

What about the rest of us - the decent and silent majority? Do our rights not count? Are they somehow less important than the rights of racist scum?

Enough of this pandering to the selfish; the aggressors; those who fill the streets with menace; the hate filled; the inciters of hate; and the bullies. It's long past time that these people were shown that the way they behave is unacceptable and that there will be a price to pay if they persist.

 

[parklane1]

Am I right in thinking that you live in Norway?

I have no idea what it is like to live in Norway.

But I do know what it has become to live in Britain. And the sad truth of the matter is that this country is now overrun by proliferating numbers of yobs who say and do what they please, without regard for any other human being. And the reason that they do so is that nothing is ever done to stop them.

What about the rest of us - the decent and silent majority? Do our rights not count? Are they somehow less important than the rights of racist scum?

Enough of this pandering to the selfish; the aggressors; those who fill the streets with menace; the hate filled; the inciters of hate; and the bullies. It's long past time that these people were shown that the way they behave is unacceptable and that there will be a price to pay if they persist.

A very good post.

One of our biggest problems is that the poice do try and stop them, but once they get to court the social workers, hand wringers and the bleeding heart liberals find a hundred and one excuses for their actions. Until we grow some balls and punish those who think the steerts belong to them it will never change.

 

[Joesh]

I think people are being punished but in some cases prisons are overcrowded which means hypothetically to jail someone like this you might have to leave out someone who has actually physically assualted someone. I think in many cases prison doesnt work and actually costs everyone else money while the offender learns little.