1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice

F.A statement on the word "yid"

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by djp82, 11 Sep 2013.

?

Has the time come for us stop chanting the Y-word?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. No

    100 vote(s)
    90.9%
  1. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Johnny Morrison

    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    9,777
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Shame. The media are creating something out of not much. The fact that a swathe of mixed white, black, jewish, korean etc Spurs fans chant yiddo, yiddo to a non-jewish Spurs player shows that the chant has nothing to do with race day to day - now. The only people giving the term racial meaning are the media and the rather sad baddiels; it's truely alarming they have stood by chelsea, criticising Spurs, while their own fans evoke the holocost.
     
    Yermiyahu, glasgowspur and MKSpur like this.
  2. MKSpur

    MKSpur Kasey Keller

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    2,809
    Location:
    Greenwich
    Yes. If there is a genuine debate to be had about the offensiveness of the word to a Jew, it cannot rank lower or be deemed to be the root cause if the songs that some of the people that the Baddiel Bros see fit to identify with. ‘Oh the lads next to me make hissing noises and referencing the holocaust, which I have always found really offensive but I haven’t said anything to them after all the years of being a Chelsea fan, because it would never have happened if all those Spurs fans hadn’t continued calling themselves one of the names also used to insult their peers.’
     
  3. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Johnny Morrison

    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    9,777
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    That is the thing, yid hasn't been used in everyday speech to denigrate people since the 1970s-80s in my opinion. Some older jews find the term uncomfortable becuase they remember a time when it was used. But times were or are changing. Mosley and the black shirts was in the 1930s, almost 90 years ago! And Spurs use of the word remains an act of anti-racism in history.

    Would be interesting to figure out when Spurs fans started to show franternity with jewish fans using the term ourselves, must have been in the 1960s or 70s? Or earlier?
     
    Last edited: 9 Jan 2019
  4. mephitis

    mephitis Bobby Mimms

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Because, for example, last time I went to the Etihad, I had to walk back to my car across the road from a group of about a hundred city fans walking in the same direction going through their whole repertoire of "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz" etc. It's common currency in certain quarters, like the N & P words.
     
  5. mephitis

    mephitis Bobby Mimms

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    I'd refer you to my previous answer "It's common currency in certain quarters, like the N & P words."
     
  6. mephitis

    mephitis Bobby Mimms

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    You really need to listen to this guy.......

     
  7. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Johnny Morrison

    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    9,777
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz" is what you said they sung while you walked to your car. Spurs. Not yid. How does your previous answer suggest yid is common currency? I mentioned general speech anyway.

    Look ultimatly people need to address racism. Spurs fans are not racist. When opposition fans are - that is the issue. You wouldnt dream of combating homophoba by blaming gay people for approiating queer as their own term, nor would them stopping saying it change other peoples prejudices and discrimination. Address the prejudices and discrimination.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2019
    MKSpur and nayenezgani like this.
  8. mephitis

    mephitis Bobby Mimms

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    You miss my point, which sort of is the point. To suggest that the the word "Yid" does not remain an anti-semitic insult because of the passage of time or its appropriation by Spurs fans is naive. The open letter, you yourself quote, should surely show you that, and the fact that, as an insult, it does indeed remain "current currency". The morons that were singing the Auschwitz and other similar songs (and they weren't singing at me btw, I was merely an anonymous observer) were indeed aiming it at Spurs but you can't tell me that they're not aware of why they were referencing Hitler and the gas chambers etc. Similarly the word "queer" is still used as an insult despite it being used in a positive way amongst the gay community. It still remains a common way of insulting for many.

    As background, my father was jewish, my mother gentile, I, therefore, am not jewish and whilst respectful (and a bit envious) of peoples faith, don't have a religious bone in my body. When my father got me on board with the whole Spurs thing back in the 60s, he was keen to emphasise the jewish connection and was proud of the fact. He was also happy to use the word Yid in that context (and as a term of affection with fellow jews) and given he was a bit of a zealot (I know, oxymoron) I've always been comfortable with us using it in the "I'm Spartacus!" way. Having said that, it's not a word I would want to spout in everyday conversation and particularly when with jewish friends or colleagues. SoT's reference to the "Spurs Bubble" is spot on. Not everyone likes football, pays it any attention or has even heard of Spurs (I know, I can't understand it either o_O). These people are likely to still find the word offensive.

    NB Agree totally with your bolded text btw.

    My last word on the subject (until it's raised again in a few month's time)!
     
  9. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Johnny Morrison

    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    9,777
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    I keep meaning to step away, but want to answer the reply. @mephitis I was removed from the 'Spurs bubble' saying: outside football, I don't think yid has been used widely to disparage since last century. You said it was 'common currency' used like the P and N word. I don't think that has been the case for a long time.

    Inside football its a term associated with being a Spurs supporter. I conceed it has layers of meaning, with some, mainly those who are 40+ aware of its history, and others not. The media and Beddiels are doing a job re-establishing it as a racial term. But we can't police language, or wipe away history; we can let the term evolve naturally.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=yid this backs up it is a predominatly footballing term now and not used to disparage in wider life.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2019
  10. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    21,278
    Likes Received:
    9,709
    "Of course she got raped, look at what she was wearing"
     
    Yermiyahu and SpurMeUp like this.
  11. MKSpur

    MKSpur Kasey Keller

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    2,809
    Location:
    Greenwich
    See I don’t use it in ever day conversation, only at a match and maybe to a Spurs fan as a ‘insider’ word we can use as Spurs fans. I only use it in the context of being a Spurs fan to a fellow Spurs fan or in a song or chant that I believe to be i defiance of the Anti Semitic abuse that is still being levelled at Spurs fans that isn’t actually a personal insult to me as I’m not Jewish or circumcised.

    The way that this seems to be reported at the moment still feels like it’s making allowances for anti Semitic behaviour by the ‘fans’ using the platform of being anti Spurs to deliver it. ‘We hate Yids’ in the football context could be a bi product of us using the word and in my view wouldn’t be anti Semitic if used in that way, but Auschwitz songs, gas chamber hissing, lack of foreskins and rather be a P than a Jew should be stamped out regardless of anything we are saying in the same way that other racist and homophobic abuse en mass wouldn’t / shouldn’t be tolerated (in this country at least, monkey noises etc seems to still happen in other European football matches)
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2019
  12. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Jonathan Woodgate

    Joined:
    1 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    1,841
    But what vague words sometimes used to describe someone are used every day? My Grandad used the word every now and then not every day, he didn't call everyone he met who was Jewish a Yid he would call them by his name, the word was always used in the context of the conversation.

    On the otherside I agree completely with MK and his football based explaination, you don't blame homosexuals and rightly so for their abuse because they have some pretty cavalier words they use to describe themselves, their TV shows, the clubs and nights they attend so why would you with Spurs fans for AS abuse for using the word Yid? I went to the cricket in Birmingham once and there was dozens and dozens of Pakistani fans with signs with "Paki Power" on them didn't give me a right to use the word.
     

Share This Page