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European Super League - Dead on arrival
- Thread starter milo
- Start date
milo
Jack L. Jones
So did every other club that signed up to it. They have exited it easily enough.
I don't think that UEFA have any grounds whilst they aren't playing in the competition and I am not even sure that they do if the ESL goes ahead. I think UEFA acting as if it has a veto over competitions is anti-competitive
Personally i agree with you. Think the court will say uefa and the esl clubs need to discuss it. The esl will need to inform uefa when the competition is going to start etc... they can't just jump ship halfway through a champions league season. As that would cause a huge amount of problems for uefa.
Think that the court will decide what powers uefa actually has. How the whole system works. Tv rights, sponsors, format, ffp the lot.
Going to be interesting to see what comes out of this. Can see the eu getting involved as well. To give clear rules over football. Hopefully some good comes out of it and it might be something uefa and the esl clubs might not be prepared for.
Just getting interesting.
StephenH
David Ginola
it's bloody tedious though!
Lol. Same was probably said when bosman was going to court. This could be bigger. Not just for football but for all sport in europe.
Yiddo
Cecil Poynton
Then all they will do is go ahead with the ESL and take the money and TV with them.
Then they're out of their leagues, playing in that one competition, players can't play in internationals etc
That is one of the questions the ecj has to answer. Are sporting governing bodies creating monopolies. Are they allowed to "punish" teams for having their own competitions.
If they are decided to be monopolies and restricting competition, what then?
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Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Not sure it would work like that though. It's in all parties' interests to maximise their income from whatever competitions they can, so there would be little point in excluding clubs / players and the massive revenues they can generate by working something out.
Money talks.
Aren't these clubs doing just that, creating a monopoly and keeping other teams out (punishing them)? If it's good for the goose...
There would be plenty of incentive if it stops them doing it or turns players off joining these teams
The esl might be challenged as anti competitive (closed shop). But that is not what the madrid court has asked of the ecj. The madrid court has asked for a ruling on whether uefa is a monopoly and is allowed to try and stop clubs forming their own competition.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
It is quite interesting. Firstly can you effectively apply commercial competition law to sport? Football has long been a business so why not?
A league by its very nature is a closed shop. You can't form a club and say UEFA give us a shot at the Champions League. A new club has to work its way up. That is not anti-competitive per se. Does that make leagues and the bodies that rule over them monopolistic? Probably not. Anyone can work their way up and vice versa. The ESL was far more of a closed shop and cartel-like.
As to whether UEFA can impose sanctions on clubs who wish to compete with UEFA, that does seem anti-competitive and monopolistic. But Uefa should be able to expel clubs who don't want to be part of their league, I don't see that as anti-competitive. Haven't RM, Juve chosen to exit Uefas competition? until they renounce the ESL I don't think it's unreasonable for a sporting organisation to expel or part suspend clubs that can not function within its rules. The league's rules/principles/ethics should allow free competition within their league, and if you are intending to play outside the league you may earn larger sums which distorts free and fair competition. Thus Uefa should have some case too.
A league by its very nature is a closed shop. You can't form a club and say UEFA give us a shot at the Champions League. A new club has to work its way up. That is not anti-competitive per se. Does that make leagues and the bodies that rule over them monopolistic? Probably not. Anyone can work their way up and vice versa. The ESL was far more of a closed shop and cartel-like.
As to whether UEFA can impose sanctions on clubs who wish to compete with UEFA, that does seem anti-competitive and monopolistic. But Uefa should be able to expel clubs who don't want to be part of their league, I don't see that as anti-competitive. Haven't RM, Juve chosen to exit Uefas competition? until they renounce the ESL I don't think it's unreasonable for a sporting organisation to expel or part suspend clubs that can not function within its rules. The league's rules/principles/ethics should allow free competition within their league, and if you are intending to play outside the league you may earn larger sums which distorts free and fair competition. Thus Uefa should have some case too.
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Agree with that all.
Begs the question, can serie a expel juventus for wanting to be in the esl? I don't think they can.
Clubs are a registered business, some even on public exchange, so absolutely business rules apply.
The issue with challenging the ESL is it didn't entail
- Any clubs leaving their domestic leagues
- Nor did it mean that domestic cups or Europa/CL go away
It's simply "another" competition, the ESL could argue that as a result (data would back it up), those 15/20 clubs at worse would be fighting for 2 trophies, and then the other clubs in leagues have 4 other trophies that in the past they typically didn't win to go after and help build their own brands
So to your point, how is it "illegal" to form another competition, how does that differ from summer tournament (e.g. "battle for London" that doesn't include at least 3 other London sides). The business of business is to make money, hard to see how a court could rule that clubs can't look for additional revenue streams (despite popular misconception, it is not the duty of bigger clubs to ensure the success of the pyramid)
The big problem I see for UEFA is their blatantly retaliatory actions, fines for clubs that never actually played in an ESL (thought crime?), threatening of staff (players) and even worse, what could be seen as conspiring with local leagues (FA/FIFA threats) and media (pundits on Sky/BT calling for protests). They clearly overstepped any reasonable measure of appropriate response.
Yiddo
Cecil Poynton
There is no way that they will stop all of the best players in the world from playing for the national teams and i very much doubt they would really want to kill the league by not letting the best play in it.
Clubs need a license in order to enter UEFA/FIFA approved competitions. If the ESL can be considered a tournament of friendlies and it doesn't interfere with your official matches, it shouldn't be a problem. Finding room for said tournament within the FIFA calender without pulling out of one or more cup competitions seems pretty much impossible and that's where UEFA might be able to revoke licenses and effectively ban clubs.
LEGAL CRITERIA
Article 43 - Declaration in respect of participation in UEFA club competitions
1 The licence applicant must submit a legally valid declaration confirming the following:
a) It recognises as legally binding the statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and, if any, the national league as well as the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne as provided in the relevant articles of the UEFA Statutes;
b) At national level it will play in competitions recognised and endorsed by the UEFA member association (e.g. national championship, national cup);
c) At international level it will participate in competitions recognised by UEFA or FIFA (to avoid any doubt, this provision does not relate to friendly matches);
d) It will promptly inform the licensor about any significant change, event or condition of major economic importance;
e) It will abide by and observe the club licensing regulations of the licensor;
f) It will abide by and observe the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations;
g) Its reporting perimeter is defined in accordance with Article 46bis;
h) It will be accountable for any consequences of an entity included in the reporting perimeter not abiding by and observing items e) and f) above;
i) All submitted documents are complete and correct;
j) It authorises the competent national club licensing administration and national club licensing bodies, the UEFA administration and the UEFA Organs for the Administration of Justice to examine any relevant document and seek information from any relevant public authority or private body in accordance with national law;
k) It acknowledges that UEFA reserves the right to execute compliance audits at national level in accordance with Article 71.
LEGAL CRITERIA
Article 43 - Declaration in respect of participation in UEFA club competitions
1 The licence applicant must submit a legally valid declaration confirming the following:
a) It recognises as legally binding the statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and, if any, the national league as well as the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne as provided in the relevant articles of the UEFA Statutes;
b) At national level it will play in competitions recognised and endorsed by the UEFA member association (e.g. national championship, national cup);
c) At international level it will participate in competitions recognised by UEFA or FIFA (to avoid any doubt, this provision does not relate to friendly matches);
d) It will promptly inform the licensor about any significant change, event or condition of major economic importance;
e) It will abide by and observe the club licensing regulations of the licensor;
f) It will abide by and observe the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations;
g) Its reporting perimeter is defined in accordance with Article 46bis;
h) It will be accountable for any consequences of an entity included in the reporting perimeter not abiding by and observing items e) and f) above;
i) All submitted documents are complete and correct;
j) It authorises the competent national club licensing administration and national club licensing bodies, the UEFA administration and the UEFA Organs for the Administration of Justice to examine any relevant document and seek information from any relevant public authority or private body in accordance with national law;
k) It acknowledges that UEFA reserves the right to execute compliance audits at national level in accordance with Article 71.