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Eric Dier

milo said:
The season he played in a back three with Verts and Alderweireld was probably our best defence in the modern era.
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Think the key words in this sentence are with Verts and Toby.

It’s like when Dawson or Bassong looked miles better when they played with King. Put them together thought and they weren’t the answer. The annoying thing is Jose is leaving the best CB at the club on the bench in favour of two error prone CB’s who don’t dominate, aren’t great on the ball and don’t have a great understanding with each other. Can’t see us winning anything with the current combination tbh.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Think the key words in this sentence are with Verts and Toby.

It’s like when Dawson or Bassong looked miles better when they played with King. Put them together thought and they weren’t the answer. The annoying thing is Jose is leaving the best CB at the club on the bench in favour of two error prone CB’s who don’t dominate, aren’t great on the ball and don’t have a great understanding with each other. Can’t see us winning anything with the current combination tbh.
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Toby hasn't been great either and just seems a bit slower (in pace, positioning, anticipation) etc which is also costing us.

I think Jose likes Dier because he generally likes leaders in his team but I'm not sure if that's really enough to compensate for his defiencies. He liked Terry for the same reason but he really improved defensively over the years.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Think the key words in this sentence are with Verts and Toby.

It’s like when Dawson or Bassong looked miles better when they played with King. Put them together thought and they weren’t the answer. The annoying thing is Jose is leaving the best CB at the club on the bench in favour of two error prone CB’s who don’t dominate, aren’t great on the ball and don’t have a great understanding with each other. Can’t see us winning anything with the current combination tbh.
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He was good in that back three and played a key part in its success. The same as him being good the season before in central midfield.
 
P.D. said:
Toby hasn't been great either and just seems a bit slower (in pace, positioning, anticipation) etc which is also costing us.

I think Jose likes Dier because he generally likes leaders in his team but I'm not sure if that's really enough to compensate for his defiencies. He liked Terry for the same reason but he really improved defensively over the years.
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Yeah he must like him for a reason. I’ve seen multiple people on here claim he should be our next captain. I’m just not seeing that I’m afraid. A captain needs to be a sure fire starter, Dier should be far from that. Toby even with his deficiencies is still a better defender and miles better on the ball.
 
milo said:
He was good in that back three and played a key part in its success. The same as him being good the season before in central midfield.
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Yeah but like I said before, he had two almost world class CB’s next to him. Just like Sanchez looked loads better next to Vertonghen. And as good as Dier was at DM, Poch went out and bought Wanyama who played 36 league games IIRC in Dier’s preferred position of DM. It speaks partly to how versatile he is, but also that we’ve tried Dier in three positions (RB, DM and CB) and he’s failed to nail down any as his own long term.

For the record, I don’t blame him at all for the penalty today. It’s a stupid rule that needs to be changed. That said, when did we last keep a clean sheet with Dier at CB?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yeah but like I said before, he had two almost world class CB’s next to him. Just like Sanchez looked loads better next to Vertonghen. And as good as Dier was at DM, Poch went out and bought Wanyama who played 36 league games IIRC in Dier’s preferred position of DM. It speaks partly to how versatile he is, but also that we’ve tried Dier in three positions (RB, DM and CB) and he’s failed to nail down any as his own long term.

For the record, I don’t blame him at all for the penalty today. It’s a stupid rule that needs to be changed. That said, when did we last keep a clean sheet with Dier at CB?
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I think that you are making a different point, @awesome dawson said that he'd "never seen a decent centre back in him" and I suggested that he played CB in our best defence in the modern era. You can argue that was in spite of him but I'm not sure that is a very convincing argument.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who said that he's not the same player he was four or five years ago. He's never quite been the same since he had appendicitis, although he's still had some good games.
 
milo said:
I think that you are making a different point, @awesome dawson said that he'd "never seen a decent centre back in him" and I suggested that he played CB in our best defence in the modern era. You can argue that was in spite of him but I'm not sure that is a very convincing argument.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who said that he's not the same player he was four or five years ago. He's never quite been the same since he had appendicitis, although he's still had some good games.
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I certainly agree he has good games (mainly playing alongside Toby). But even in those games has made costly mistakes (the United penalty he gave away springs to mind in an otherwise excellent game). I’m not so bothered with him at CB if he’s next to Toby. But the combination of Dier and Sanchez is just too risky IMO. They’re 6/10 CB’s for the most part. Neither of them excel at anything particularly and have their flaws.
 
milo said:
I think that you are making a different point, @awesome dawson said that he'd "never seen a decent centre back in him" and I suggested that he played CB in our best defence in the modern era. You can argue that was in spite of him but I'm not sure that is a very convincing argument.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who said that he's not the same player he was four or five years ago. He's never quite been the same since he had appendicitis, although he's still had some good games.
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I like him, I think he's the best CB at the club now, but, that season you mention, yes the defence was good, but he was the weak point of it imo, he made a lot of mental mistakes.
 
We will concede a lot of goals due to Dier's learning curve in this new position. I'd argue he should go and learn how to be a centre back for a midtable club in Italy like Smalling is. He's simply not good enough at many aspects of being a top four centre back.
 
billyiddo said:
There's jumping and using you arms to gain height and then there's being out of control of your body and flailing your arms about - today was the latter.

That coupled with him being nowhere near winning the header makes it handball by the new rule imo
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Exactly right. Dier jumped without his hands flailing in the air, it was on the way down that he raised that right arm. In this day and age of VAR ridiculousness, you have to keep them out the way.
 
awesome dawson said:
Exactly right. Dier jumped without his hands flailing in the air, it was on the way down that he raised that right arm. In this day and age of VAR ridiculousness, you have to keep them out the way.
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After he was pushed in the back and knocked of balance, your not going to tell me you did not see that are you?
 
parklane1 said:
After he was pushed in the back and knocked of balance, your not going to tell me you did not see that are you?
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All people see is what they want to see. I'd blame Dier more for the header he missed in the first half than getting out-muscled by Carroll.
 
parklane1 said:
After he was pushed in the back and knocked of balance, your not going to tell me you did not see that are you?
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I've watched it. If there's a push from Laselles it's minor. To be honest these recent pen decision against Dier aren't the only issue with him being our starting CB. He's an 1980s style CB in a vastly superior version of the game. If you're happy with him great, see how this season goes.
 
awesome dawson said:
I've watched it. If there's a push from Laselles it's minor. To be honest these recent pen decision against Dier aren't the only issue with him being our starting CB. He's an 1980s style CB in a vastly superior version of the game. If you're happy with him great, see how this season goes.
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i am not saying Dier is or is not our CB going forward, when you are jumping in the air to try and head a ball there is no way you can not react when pushed, minor or not.
 
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