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Eric Dier

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Jordinho, 31 Jul 2014.

  1. galeforce

    galeforce Garth Crooks

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    I think most likely they go because it’s a jolly, they may well socialise with others but nobody will learn more from the stands than they will from the numbers, the analytics are where the real info is.

    Of course a team/country might be making a pigs ear of analysis.
     
  2. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Les Medley

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    True

    Its why we lost to Man Utd. Our attackers made loads of errors

    It’s also why we won vs Newcastle

    Joys of players being human
     
  3. galeforce

    galeforce Garth Crooks

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    We made almost as many attacking errors against Newcastle as we did against United.

    Joy isn’t the word I would use.
     
    Bedfordspurs likes this.
  4. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Andy Thompson

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    I think that’s because certain players like Kane and Eriksen have more credit in the bank. So people go easier on them when they make a mistake or miss a chance. You have players like Trippier and Sissoko at the other end of the scale who people are harsher on, because they haven’t contributed as much to the team in a positive sense. That’s just the way it works. Dier falls somewhere in the middle. He’s neither as crap as Trippier nor is he anywhere near as good as Kane.
     
    Bullet likes this.
  5. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Les Medley

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    Well I accept their human and therefore fallable

    It’s why I don’t like VAR for anything that’s a judgement call as humans make errors and VAR hasn’t shown much that changed on that front
     
  6. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Les Medley

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    Yet you can argue that eriksen and Kane need a player like Dier or sissoko to thrive and get that credit in the bank
     
  7. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    Joe Cole's seen a lot of football, do you listen to his opinion? What about Carragher?

    Watching football does not increase a person's intellectual capacity.

    Again, what proportion of scouting a player or team do you think happens live?
     
  8. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    He did it in every match he played alongside Dembele, he also is showing signs of doing so with Winks.
     
  9. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Dean Austin

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    A few forward passes isn't dictating the game. Dembele was dictating our game in that partnership. I also think Toby is a more progressive passer from the back than Dier.

    For me Dier is an excellent Right back and a decent centre half in a three. I think we only play him in midfield because it is an area we haven't managed to fill adequately. I think Winks is best midfielder in the double pivot. He does dictates play.
     
    Jurgen the German likes this.
  10. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Andy Thompson

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    Joe Cole and Carragher have won everything there is to win at club level between them so I’d say they know more about the game than me and you. Just because they may not be the most articulate characters doesn’t mean they don’t know the game.

    Not sure what kind of answer you are expecting re scouts? Clubs would do their due diligence before signing a player, i hazard a guess that would include looking at stats/analysis, looking at how they cope against different kinds of opposition and watching them play live so they can get a close up view of their work rate, off the ball runs, body language etc that cameras wouldn’t necessarily highlight.
     
  11. galeforce

    galeforce Garth Crooks

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    They might know more about the game than you two, but not because they’ve played in side that have won certain pots.

    Sporting success isn’t depending on understanding, Sebastian Vettel has won 4 world championships, but every single time he’s had even a sniff of competition he’s miscalculated and been beaten, Eli Manning has won two Super Bowl rings yet can’t spell his own firstname.
     
  12. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    They're not intelligent to understand the game is my point.

    They've seen countless matches and could see a million more but will never have the underlying intellectual capacity to properly understand football.

    Their success is a result of them having been genetically predisposed to kicking and chasing a football at a higher level than most.

    The answer is hundreds of hours. The amount of footage and data collected on a player or team and analysed is somewhere between 95% and 400% of the scouting.

    Then they go and watch a match or two - much of the importance of which is being in the same physical place as the player, his agent, his current owners, etc.

    So I'm fairly confident that if multi-million £ football teams can make multi-million £ judgements via footage and statistics, with the odd live match thrown in here and there, then I can base my opinions on the same.
     
  13. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    Why do the passes have to be forwards? If the better option is sideways or backwards then a player controlling the game would do that.
     
  14. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Andy Thompson

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    Their intelligence isn’t important. Football and intelligence don’t necessarily have to go hand in hand in order for someone to be successful in the game. No offence, but have you ever heard Dier speak? He’s hardly a mental giant himself. But that has no relevance to his ability to play football and understand the game.
     
  15. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Andy Thompson

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    But they would still attend matches live is the point. They wouldn’t bother going to games if it had no merit.
     
  16. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    They do - for about 2% of the time they spend looking at football. I spend more than that at live matches. If it's good enough for decisions of that magnitude then I think it's ok for me.
     
  17. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    I'm absolutely not claiming Dier is intelligent enough to fully understand football at a high level, I'm saying I am.

    My point (clearly missed) is that the quantity of matches seen live and one's understanding of football are not related. Some people have a cap on their ability to understand complex theory.
     
  18. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Les Medley

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    Strange you should say that as Dier is known to be one of the more intelligent players in the game

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...d-defender-the-new-face-of-football-nl0zhp5lr
     
  19. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Andy Thompson

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    Should be a matter of time before I see you on Sky alongside Alex Scott
     
  20. scaramanga

    scaramanga David Ginola Staff Member

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    I doubt it. TV football pundits are a varied bunch, but they're somewhat singular in their complete lack of depth of understanding.
     
  21. 90291Spur

    90291Spur Steve Carr

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    So we'll be seeing you on the telly soon then hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
     
    scaramanga likes this.

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