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ENIC

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by mattls, 1 Feb 2013.

  1. Gazzasrightboot

    Gazzasrightboot Pascal Chimbonda

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    My feeling on these "sexy" "typical spurs" etc... type comments are well known but I just thought as everyone has had a say, I will reiterate my position.

    I hate it. Despise it even. It's just so defeatist in its nature, to suggest that the Gods are against us. The fact is that it is not true. Luck has had nothing to do with where we have found ourselves in recent times. The reason why I say this is because I don't believe in luck. It's not helpful - not to anyone. There is no benefit to to thinking of things in the form of luck or unluckiness.

    I understand the notion of why this "sexy" comment has arisen. We missed out on Champions League because of lasagne, Chelsea winning the European Cup in a season they underperformed in the league and losing to Emirates Marketing Project pre-Mansour. Then of course there is the Man United result when we went 3 nil up. I'm going to take each of these in turn:

    1. Dodgy lasagne or not - We finished that season where we were supposed to finish. In that season, a lot of teams would have suffered from bouts of illness that spread within their team. It's a random act, and, for the conspiracy theorists out there, even if we assume that it was a deliberate ploy, then luck had nothing to do with it. We were just unprepared!

    2. Chelsea winning the European Cup - It's not the first time that a team has won the CL and not finishing in CL finishing places. Liverpool did the same. Yes, Everton got in as well but that was where the precedent was made that affected our participation. We knew the rules, and we just didn't do well enough. Luck had nothing to do with it.

    3. Emirates Marketing Project result - We were just fragile. Our team crumbled and we're not the first team to do it, won't be the last, and it will happen again to us. It happens to other clubs, and I would argue that that result was as a function of the fact that we had a losing meteorology at the club.

    And this is why I hate "sexy". It's a losing meteorology. It's a losing meteorology because it factors in things like being unlucky into its thinking, as if to say there's no point in trying to improve ourselves as luck will just take it away. gonad*s. More often than not, you get what you deserve. Toss a coin enough times and it will be even heads or tails. We did not qualify for CL, we did not win cups, we lost matches because we were not good enough. That's it. Luck had nothing to do with it.

    The reason why we think it happens to us more than other clubs is as a result of a number of reasons. First, we are acutely aware of what happens to us and not as aware of what happens to other clubs. Second, we are the ones that have consistently been challenging for CL and just missed out. Are Liverpool unlucky that they fell out of the top 4? No. They became brick, lost their manager and entered into a phase of rebuilding. We just so happen to be in that phase every 2-3 years in our hope of breaking the top 4. A top 4 where all of those clubs have bigger resources than us. Are Aston Villa luckier than us because they've never had Lasagne gate? Well no, they've never even challenged. Are Leeds unlucky to have dropped out of the PL and almost out of existence? No, they're where they are because they were stupid.

    If we are labelled unlucky because we have been THE club that has consistently challenged the top 4 and narrowly missed out then I'd rather be that way then not even challenge. It's a tough ask to break the top 4 and win a cup. We've come close. So many teams have not even done that. We're the club with the fifth biggest resources. More often than not, we will finish fifth. Sometimes we will finish higher (as there are other factors at play rather than just resources to do well in the league). Sometimes we will finish lower (because of the same reason). Luck just is not one of those things.

    If sexy means daring to punch above your weight, then so be it. But, to think we are an unlucky team is a loser attitude. More often than not, you get what you deserve in this world.
     
  2. parklane1

    parklane1 Luka Modric

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    Sums up my thoughts on it as well, you get what you deserve and if you are GOOD enough it will happen.
     
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  3. ledley's knee injections

    ledley's knee injections Radek Cerny

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    One of the best posts I've seen in a little while! Agree with everything you say.

    I'm another one in favour of binning this goddamn term 'sexy' . I don't use it myself. It's a saying which just reeks of self-perpetuating loser's meteorology... the type of weak meteorology ("Tottenham will always let you down..." etc) that we have to absolutely at all costs eradicate from the very fabric of THFC.
     
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  4. braineclipse

    braineclipse Andy Thompson

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    The idea that another Alli or Dier type signing this January would be a bad thing for us as a club is to me almost beyond belief.
     
  5. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Dimitar Berbatov

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    We should always be looking for the next Alli or Dier - their the signings that make a difference between us and the mega rich clubs as they grow in value whilst we help them develop. Plus of course they build an affinity with the luck and fans and IMO will be more loyal. All and Dier cost us £9M between them and are now worth 5 time that and will only go up in value as they continue to outperform players who cost others a lot more (and thats just the financial argument)

    Im all for signing experience but it has to be the right fit culturally as well as technically. We have a real team unit and we can't damage that with the wrong persona for example

    I think Austin would have been a great fit as he has the skills, personality and work ethic> Clearly Poch didn't and I bow to his better judgement

    My only concern is i dont want us to risk what we have gained already by not signing cover for Kane and I gladly accept it being someone like Dembele being youthful and inexperienced as its at least cover and an option.

    My fear is that without cover Kane could foreseably play another 20 plus games. So could most of the first 11 and then go off to the euros and have no beak in reality. We come back in the summer and have a poor start due to whatever reasons and the fans will turn. Maybe not all but certainly some ( I hear fans moaning now regularly). The pressure builds and suddenly we end up in a Brenton situation ...

    I dont know if signing one cover striker who could grow and develop with us will stop that and i may be massively negative (which isn't my nature) but i see so many positive sin the club and i think that one signing could keep that momentum going, whereas not making any and working hard to maintain what we have may be short sighted
     
  6. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Jonathan Woodgate

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    Exactly, I judge Levy on where we are now compared to the year we nearly went down and stayed up on two away results, Barnsley and Wimbledon, we are miles away from there now, that's how good the man is
     
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  7. braineclipse

    braineclipse Andy Thompson

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    As City and Chelsea have proven signing a young players with tons of talent like Alli or Dier doesn't mean much unless you're also planning to give them game time.

    My point is that if we sign another talent as the Kane backup option in our squad with the plan to give them game time like we gave Alli and Dier that would make a lot of sense. Kane's ability has given us that option whereas we for years and years have been forced to try to sign a striker for the first team right now.

    The idea that you can sign one player for the future as the talent that will just get better sitting on the bench (or at home watching the games on telly) while you sign one more experience backup striker for the team right now seems antiquated to me. If you're going to develop a player in that age group they need game time and they need to get the trust of the club and head coach to develop. They need to feel that they will get another chance even if they don't take this one. They need to feel a part of the team, not just a part of a backup squad that gets to play the league cup. When Pochettino decided to make Dier a DM this summer he didn't first want a short term DM fix to also get game time. No. The way to make Dier step up in that role was to play him, in that role.

    Brenton signed ALL THE fudging STRIKERS! I'm stretching the definition of a striker a bit to make a point, but arguably all of Borini, Assaidi, Sturridge, Alberto, Aspas, Moses, Lambert, Markovic, Origi, Balotelli, Ings, Firmino and Benteke could play as a "striker". At least in some of the weird ass formations Rodgers put out for them. Even a more narrow definition of a striker would definitely include Borini, Sturridge, Lambert, Origi, Balotelli, Ings and Benteke... The problem was never, ever, a lack of squad depth up front for him. Even by the more narrow definition of a striker he signed a striker per transfer window he was at the bloody club...
     
  8. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Dimitar Berbatov

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    In reality and experienced head isn't going to join as they know Kane is clearly number 1, unless its someone at the latter stage son their career and they can in theory help Kane develop too ( I can't think of a player though)

    So were left with signing and developing a younger player which suits us at the moment and is IMO the best option. Two players straight away fit that bill in Dembele and Berahino who both can play in place of and with Kane

    Its why I said I'm all for signing experience but not to risk everything else
     
  9. Raziel

    Raziel Paul Stalteri

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    My view

    - S.p.u.r.s.y is flimflam, as is "to always let you down", every club has it due to the nature of the game (win some lose some). I would say City, Pool & Scum have done far more to earn that (based on position/spend/expectations) than us in last decade.
    - Sexy is actually important, the Tottenham way is important, it gives us an identity and gives us something to strive for. Look at what LVG is doing with United, what AVB did with us vs. some of the beautiful football we see when Poch's team gets it right .. I never want Spurs to be a play the percentages, 2 banks of defenders squeezed in, team, and that's (Tottenham way) not defeatist, defeatist to me is believing the only way we can get something out of a game is to play ugly ...

    Correction by the way, we are the team with the 6th (not 5th -> City, Cheat$ki, United, Scum, Pool all spend way more) best resources.

    So s.p.u.r.s.y might be finishing above your position 7 out of last 10 times (with only two below), in the same time period finishing above 4 out of the 5 better financed clubs.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2016
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  10. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Frederic Kanoute

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    I like it, if we finish top 4 with the 6th best resources, it would be so sexy.
     
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  11. Gazzasrightboot

    Gazzasrightboot Pascal Chimbonda

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    You're absolutely right. Makes it even more impressive and shows that we have punched above our weight for a long time.
     
  12. Jordinho

    Jordinho Clive Allen Staff Member

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    After £450,000 worth of shares in London-based football team Tottenham Hotspur were traded on 21 April, at their highest price since the club de-listed from the stock market, a market capitalisation of £426m was achieved.

    As covered on Real Business previously,shareholders frustrated with the lack of validity of Tottenham Hotspur stakes approached online share trading marketplace Asset Match. Following communication with the Premier League team, Asset Match has held a series of auctions – the latest of which saw shares change hands for 200p.

    This represents a 21 per cent rise on the 165p price seen at the first auction in March, and 400 per cent rise on the last trade price when the club was listed on London’s Alternative Investment Market (AIM) in 2012.

    Speaking back in 2011, Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy explained why the club was leaving the stock market. He said: "It is clear to us that increasing the capacity of the club's stadium is a key factor in the continued development and success of the club and will involve the company in considerable additional capital expenditure.

    "Given this requirement, we believe that the AIM listing restricts our ability to secure funding for its future development.”

    Tottenham Hotspur does have a pre-existing “match bargain service” in place, but share holders were reportedly “frustrated” at prices being determined by market forces of buyers and sellers.

    http://realbusiness.co.uk/article/3...-share-sales-see-football-club-valued-at-426m
     
  13. Jordinho

    Jordinho Clive Allen Staff Member

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    2. ENIC and future plans for the Club

    2.1 What was ENIC’s strategy and vision for the next 5 years?
    • DL started by going back to 2001, when the priority was to invest in the first team and become a European Club. That had been achieved
    • The strategy was to build the organic way, to produce their own players
    • It isn’t sustainable to spend more money than you earn in the long run
    • So, ENIC invested in the training facilities
    • And then in the stadium project, which started 18 years ago when the first pieces of land were acquired
    • The stadium has been a huge undertaking which shouldn’t be underestimated
    • It’s been a very stressful time for everyone involved and the staff have worked incredibly hard
    • The next aim is to get the stadium open and get it running effectively
    • The foundations are there for Spurs to be one of the biggest clubs in the world
    • The easy way to success is to spend big money on players. The harder way is to lay foundations. In DL’s view, that is fundamental to a sustainable football club
    • The ambition is to make Spurs regular Champions league contenders
    • He wants Spurs to compete at the highest possible level without jeopardising the Club
    2.2 Plans for remaining competitive financially?
    • DL explained that the expenditure on the stadium will go on for another 12 months
    • The stadium building is enormous. It takes 8 hours to walk around all of it
    • It’s not possible to confirm the final cost as further works (for example, club museum) and a degree of finessing are still to be undertaken
    2.3 MG asked if they were any closer to refinancing the £637m loan?
    • DL said there were three years to run on the five-year facility and the Club would be looking to refinance for longer term debt but needed to open the stadium first. Rothschilds are advising.
    • Current thinking is for a bond/note type issue with a variety of maturities. No decision has been made on whether these will be public or private issues
    • MG asked if the new debt would be for a similar figure. DL said yes it would be
    2.4 MG asked for an update on naming rights. DL said none were in place as yet. The Club had never been in talks with Nike. Sponsoring stadiums is not what Nike do as a business
    2.5 MG asked about the refinancing of the loan with Investec
    • DL explained that it was connected to the training lodge
    2.6 MG asked for comment on recent shirt deals where City, United etc. were all quoted as making far more money than THFC
    • DL explained how other Clubs sold their merchandise rights (store and licensing) too, but that we preferred to control that ourselves so comparing those deals was not comparing like for like
    • Realism was also needed that other clubs sell more shirts than THFC, which has an impact on the fee
    • SB explained that the numbers reported in the press were usually inaccurate with some clubs including potential bonus amounts
    2.7 MC asked whether staying at Wembley had cost the Club money given the extra capacity
    • DL said it had done so on account of the high rent and running staff at two stadia
    2.8 Plans for remaining competitive on field?
    • MG asked whether the amount for transfers was shrinking given the stadium outlay
    • DL said no. The fact that stadium costs had risen does not impact that number
    • DL said that with a debt of £637m, subject to reasonable assumption on interest rates, the net spend on players would not be affected
    • DL continued that UCL qualification gave more flexibility
    • There is a certain amount the Club wants to invest in the team. If players are sold, that amount increases.
    • MG asked if money wasn’t the issue, what had prevented us from adding to the squad over the last two windows
    • DL said that transfers were tricky. If we could have sold XYZ and found someone better, we would have done it
    • DL said he was disappointed that the market was not as liquid as it had been previously
    • DL also stressed the requirement for Tottenham’s squad to include more homegrown players. There were squad limits and we had reached the maximum for overseas players
    • MC explained that, while not understanding the complexities, people are worried that two windows have passed without investing in the team, the stadium has overrun and people are worried about us standing still
    • KL said the fans feel that the team was so close to winning and so close to taking that final step that the lack of investment in the playing side this year has been particularly distressing and frustrating
    2.9 Priorities for next season?
    • MC asked for clarification of Club priorities for next season, highlighting the difference between prioritising and dismissing certain competitions
    • DL said that MP wants to win all four competitions but the Premier League and Champions League are the main competitions you’re judged on
    • KL felt winning a domestic cup would make a fundamental difference to fans
    2.10 Plans for integrating Spurs Ladies into the main Club?
    • DMC noted the huge step up in support for the Ladies in the past couple of seasons, and thanked THST for their support
    • The Board is currently undertaking a full review given the Ladies team may secure promotion to the Women’s Super League
    • THST flagged its sponsorship of the Spurs Ladies v Sheffield United match on 24 March, planned for several months and unfortunately on the same day as the first test event
    • The Club was exploring moving the kick off time of the Ladies match to minimise a clash with the first test event and the request is with the FA [KICK OFF TIME HAS SINCE BEEN MOVED EARLIER]
    • THST had held off promoting the Sheffield United game until the test event ballot had closed to Season Ticket holders but will be promoting over the coming week
    http://www.thstofficial.com/thst-ne...meeting-with-the-spurs-board-on-12-march-2019
     
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  14. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover Paul Walsh

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    It might have been difficult to invest in the first team because of non home grown players but I feel we need to be creative. Buy and loan back for someone like Ndombele last summer would have been a shrewd bit of business. Knowing that we would have got a player for the future and knowing that Dembele would be at the end of his contract this season(I know we ended up selling) plus others would likely leave.

    We need to show a bit more flexibility in the market and think differently about things.
     
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  15. Jon

    Jon Milija Aleksic

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    Agree. We seem to be doing lots of waiting and waiting on initially promising players, until they become really well known and eventually end up going for a fortune. At which point we can say ‘oh well, we were just priced out the market by the big boys’!
     
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  16. Dicko

    Dicko Gudni Bergsson

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    Or those players are doing the waiting and waiting as they know (or would be told by agents) that if teams like us want them now then just think who will want them if they keep playing well. Who knows, some players might jump at the chance to join us and play for a top PL side, or they could be extremely confident (or overate themselves!) And believe they will get a move to a superclub
     
  17. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Paul Robinson

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    I think its fair to say the stadium build has impacted on transfers. But DL can't say that. At a minium rather than focus on trading players, the club has been up to its eye balls dealing with a massive building project, and that has to distract and undermine transfer business to some degree.
     
  18. nayenezgani

    nayenezgani Clint Dempsey

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    Why would he lie about it though? If the stadium meant we couldn't buy players for a while, surely he'd use that as the perfect excuse, particularity given the backlash following the last two windows?

    The fact that he doesn't says to me that we simply haven't been able to do the right deals. It's what Poch has said all along too.

    What does he have to gain by lying?
     
  19. Jon

    Jon Milija Aleksic

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    Dangle them enough money and they’ll soon be kissing the badge and recalling childhood stories of watching Gary Doherty and Gregory Raziak and always dreaming of playing at the “Tottenham Hotspur Naming-rights Stadium”...

    ;-)
     
  20. Daisuk

    Daisuk John Lacy

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    Exactly. From a business point of view it might even be beneficial to say you don't have much money to spend when you want to buy players.
     

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