Dele being left out today is, I believe, as a result of this post on instagram shortly after the Fulham game basically showing that he's bored. Not a great thing to post just after a game where we threw away points and at a time when everyone was obviously tinkled off. He'd obviously played well v Marine, Jose said that he might be involved against Fulham yet Dele spent the game sitting on his arse even when we needed a goal....
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Dele Alli
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
metalgear
Nayim
Thought it interesting to compare Dele with a Mourinho favorite, who isn't exactly pulling up trees too. 
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Mikey10
Pat van den Hauwe
That ‘beard’ alone is enough reason to sell him.
Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
There is this, for all the talk about Jose being wrong to want to sell him (If it isnt Dele pushing for the move from the summer) he has been very average for a few seasons - even under mopo.
He is clearly a good player with ability and I don't think anyone would say he isnt, but the fuss over him not playing is OTT, saying that he should be in the squad.
But we don't know why he isnt, both Jose and Mopo got stick for selecting CE - if the situation is the same people cant then say he should be selected.
awesome dawson
Mitchell Thomas
Come back to the COVID thread, you’ve left scara on his own to fight the anti lockdown fight. We’ve missed your genius insight into fighting a pandemic.
1.5 good seasons, fudging hell this place sometimes
His goal output in his Spurs career by season is 10, 22, 14, 7, 9, 2* (current)
His first season saved the midfield for Poch, his second was the peak of his career so far, 3rd was still a good season but then it fell off a cliff for him.
So more like 3 good, with a 3rd bad one in row. Being reactive I'd say having your best season at 21 is always very worrying with the next "big thing" British player
Being objective, his best seasons (last with MK, first three with us) have been when he has played a lot of games, 44, 46, 50, 50, his worse seasons, 38, 38, 12*? does he need that game rhythm?
The talent is there, is the flexibility (do what the team needs not your specialty) and the drive? we don't know. I think he will get the easy out option with PSG, up to him what he chooses to do#.
Mate, I'm trying to be objective (I didn't say the guy had 1.5 seasons) and provide some aligned data.
Dele's goal output is a big part of his game, especially when initially he'd fade in and out of games (from an impact perspective).
I'd say it's safe to say his last two season's haven't been good (by his standards), now there is an argument that the last two seasons haven't been good for anyone bar Son but that's another argument.
I think the argument most people are making is there is a trend here, not that Dele has been great all his career at Spurs and this season is an outlier (call in 1.5/3:3 or 4:2 doesn't matter), it's something that is an issue for the player and the club.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
I’d argue that 50 goals plus how many assists (?) in 160 league games is pretty damn good for any player
@Raziel His bad form came about in the latter months of Pochs time when everyone was playing badly since then he started well under Mourinho, faded off (like the rest of the team) and then hasn't had a sniff this season.
People make the same mistake you have by looking at goals and saying see, he got worse - no he just had a different role in the team, a disruptor/presser deeper on the pitch, who played the role well and still managed to chip in with goals and assists...
People make the same mistake you have by looking at goals and saying see, he got worse - no he just had a different role in the team, a disruptor/presser deeper on the pitch, who played the role well and still managed to chip in with goals and assists...
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At his age you won't find players with those numbers in this league.
Sometimes mate, seem like we talk past each other ..
No disagreement with highlighted bit, said it myself, pretty much everyone played brick at the end of Poch's era with the CM roles (Eriksen and Dele) suffering the most.
I believe the guy is stupid talented, I do think there were mitigating factors, I think he needs lots of game time (similar to Kane who I think is better the more he plays), that said
- Dele needs to either play off the striker or be the creative player, his top level ability is goals/assists.
- Absolutely no point playing him as a presser/disruptor (not his best role and we have better players for that now)
The question is where do you play him, and does he justify that right now?
- easy answer is off Kane, problem is that position belongs to Son (and Dele at his best isn't better than Son at the goal/assist thing)
- other option is pulling the strings behind the front 3, perhaps in front of a Ndombele/PEH setup, that to me requires Dele has the mindset of controlling the game (something he did do at Marine, but has failed to do often even against lower tier opposition)
- putting him wide or in a presser/disruptor role as I said above in my opinion makes no sense.
So that's where we are
- As a play off the striker role, Son is better.
- Out wide or disrupting, other players are better
- In the midfield directing the game, possible but not proven and would have to compete with Gio or the space may not exist at all if we play 5 at back.
- He could be part of the 2nd string front line with Vinicius and Lucas/Lamela.
There is no plot against Dele, he just doesn't justify a place in first 11 right now, could that change? sure, is it likely? I'm not sure I see it.
@Raziel
this whole convo started when you attempted to defend a poster i was responding to whose position was that Alli only had 1.5 seasons worth of good form and that's what i have been debating since...
@parklane1 rather than post again I'll just tag you here - read the below, watch the video and then tell me why it is you think he isn't suited to our game and why he can't play that role for the first team? I'm all ears...
Where do i see Alli fitting in? Atm ahead of a Ndombele + Hojberg deep 2 in games where we should be looking to take the game to the opponents (approx 2/3s+ of our league fixtures) I see good things happening with him in that area and then pressing on ahead of Kane when he drops off - having Son and Dele threatening opposition defenses will be an improvement on just having Son. He has shown, albeit against weaker opposition, that he can pick the ball up in that area between attack/midfield and play probing balls in behind for the full backs to run on to, something both Aurier+Regulion would benefit from. His pressing in this area would benefit us turning over opposition possession high up the pitch and forcing mistakes of opponents (opposition mistakes sound familiar?) considering Mourinho supposedly wants us to be pressing from the front, would it not actually make sense to play someone known for pressing in that area???
Forget the level of opposition for a moment but watch that and tell me someone playing that role on the ball in games we are to dominate in the league isn't needed or wouldn't fit in...
this whole convo started when you attempted to defend a poster i was responding to whose position was that Alli only had 1.5 seasons worth of good form and that's what i have been debating since...
@parklane1 rather than post again I'll just tag you here - read the below, watch the video and then tell me why it is you think he isn't suited to our game and why he can't play that role for the first team? I'm all ears...
Where do i see Alli fitting in? Atm ahead of a Ndombele + Hojberg deep 2 in games where we should be looking to take the game to the opponents (approx 2/3s+ of our league fixtures) I see good things happening with him in that area and then pressing on ahead of Kane when he drops off - having Son and Dele threatening opposition defenses will be an improvement on just having Son. He has shown, albeit against weaker opposition, that he can pick the ball up in that area between attack/midfield and play probing balls in behind for the full backs to run on to, something both Aurier+Regulion would benefit from. His pressing in this area would benefit us turning over opposition possession high up the pitch and forcing mistakes of opponents (opposition mistakes sound familiar?) considering Mourinho supposedly wants us to be pressing from the front, would it not actually make sense to play someone known for pressing in that area???
Forget the level of opposition for a moment but watch that and tell me someone playing that role on the ball in games we are to dominate in the league isn't needed or wouldn't fit in...
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K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Les Ferdinand
I'm one of his biggest fans but it comes down to can he play the way the coach wants, if he can't or won't then we don't need him. He's not good enough to change the team to accomidate him.
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
Other than him trolling Mourinho in any meetings or in training, I’m still in the camp that he is offers more than most of our attacking players if we are looking to attack teams or need a goal. After Marine Mourinho was positive about the possibility of him being included, he was left on the bench when we needed a goal against Fulham and then excluded against Sheffield United. If the latter is in response to an Instagram post, whilst it seems silly for him to fan the flames, it also seems to have been treated than less of an issue than breaching the Covid protocols which didn’t stop Lamela coming off the bench ahead of him.
Ultimately he just needs to go, Mourinho cannot make an argument that he needs him for squad depth when you consider the players who have played or been picked ahead of him. If levy is nervous about making a mistake by selling him, then that would allude to him questioning Mourinho’s judgement and rightly or wrongly we need to go with the simple fact that Mourinho is the manager and now doesn’t rate him l, so he should move on. It can’t be a nice atmosphere for his close pals and him in training.
Of course if he’s asking for something complex or ridiculous financially to leave, then playing time isn’t the be all and end all for him so his entitled to try and front it out whilst his career stalls - don’t see Levy or Mourinho blinking before him though.
I really thought early on it was a motivational ploy that was going to help Dele reach another level and adapt to a more rounded role in a different set up to how he had been used. It’s now been so long with so little actually being said it just seems counter productive to keep him around. I say that as a massive fan who believes his ‘bad’ seasons were still better than quite a few players good seasons ones.
Ultimately he just needs to go, Mourinho cannot make an argument that he needs him for squad depth when you consider the players who have played or been picked ahead of him. If levy is nervous about making a mistake by selling him, then that would allude to him questioning Mourinho’s judgement and rightly or wrongly we need to go with the simple fact that Mourinho is the manager and now doesn’t rate him l, so he should move on. It can’t be a nice atmosphere for his close pals and him in training.
Of course if he’s asking for something complex or ridiculous financially to leave, then playing time isn’t the be all and end all for him so his entitled to try and front it out whilst his career stalls - don’t see Levy or Mourinho blinking before him though.
I really thought early on it was a motivational ploy that was going to help Dele reach another level and adapt to a more rounded role in a different set up to how he had been used. It’s now been so long with so little actually being said it just seems counter productive to keep him around. I say that as a massive fan who believes his ‘bad’ seasons were still better than quite a few players good seasons ones.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I don’t think it is fair to say that this Dele has been poor this season. He hasn’t had a chance to be poor as the manager isn’t playing him (I think because he needs to generate funds to strengthen us at centre back and in central midfield so is trying to force Dele out as probably our biggest asset in terms of monetary worth who he doesn’t consider to be a first choice player).