Dalian Atkinson Dead.

[Grays_1890]

does 1 correct use of a taser mean all uses are correct? .

No but I do believe that if a policeman is acting within the guidelines and situation had potential to go bad quickly then he had the right to use the taser and that Atkinson was just unlucky. Atkinson woke up that day with all the choices in life available to make the right ones before it got to that point, I am not saying he deserved to die, but if you want to weigh up who was wrong or MORE in the wrong on that day I think its best to look at the full action rather than the police reaction.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Yeah I agree, that's what I expect & hope they will do. But just as some assume the worst of the police, some have also assumed the opposite.

 

[thfcsteff]

The context has already been applied in the decision to threaten the use of the taser.

What I'm asking is, once that decision has been made (as this is the point at which our stellar witness joins the party) what is the appropriate action for someone who doesn't stop?

There is only one option IMO. Otherwise the threat of a taser (currently an even less lethal method than an actual taser) becomes useless.

We disagree. In order for the threat to be processed, we have to assume the perp is not o high/drunk that they cannot clearly decipher English/their own hand from a cone shell/other people from visiting Vaargian aliens, you know, that sort of thing. And in those circumstances, you would hope that officers can restrain the deluded fool without tasering him on the floor...that being said, I concede that in this case, the full facts are snippy not available.

 

[thfcsteff]

Questions are always asked of the police, I know because one of my best mates is in the Met and the days of bending the rules to suit their own outcome are long gone, they are hugely regulated.

The police bashing gets abit tired now

My neighbour was undercover for two decades before finally getting his dream position much-desired post, of dirt-bike cop. He says that sadly, like any job, there are a few who are simply brick and shouldn't be in it.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Pretty sure when tasers were being introduced it was put that they would be used instead of firearms not to subdue people, is this not correct?

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree with Seedy Ron's sentiments, I do not believe that policeman intend to make mistakes, why would anyone? I believe the majority of them choose that career because they want to make a difference and because they want to help people. That does not mean that they are not some bad eggs who abuse the power they hold and shouldn't be in the job, look at Hillsborough calamity. When they make mistakes or act negligently, questions should be asked and if necessary, displinary action should be taken if they act with criminal negligence.

Corruption and human error are going to happen to some extent in any walk of life, why is the police force any different?

 

[scaramanga]

I agree with Seedy Ron's sentiments, I do not believe that policeman intend to make mistakes, why would anyone? I believe the majority of them choose that career because they want to make a difference and because they want to help people. That does not mean that they are not some bad eggs who abuse the power they hold and shouldn't be in the job, look at Hillsborough calamity. When they make mistakes or act negligently, questions should be asked and if necessary, displinary action should be taken if they act with criminal negligence.

Corruption and human error are going to happen to some extent in any walk of life, why is the police force any different?

I agree with that except the Hillsborough bit. Those police were also trying to do the best for everyone, just under the circumstance of regularly violent crowds.

Sent from my SM-G925F using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Grays_1890]

I think the safety record for taser use is something like two deaths in 10 years and this one was probably down to his heart being already 120 on cocaine

 

[Grays_1890]

My neighbour was undercover for two decades before finally getting his dream position much-desired post, of dirt-bike cop. He says that sadly, like any job, there are a few who are simply bricke and shouldn't be in it.

Ohh no doubt, but I think the big element left out of this....is they deal with, day to day....criminals that make the job 10 times harder.

 

[thfcsteff]

Ohh no doubt, but I think the big element left out of this....is they deal with, day to day....criminals that make the job 10 times harder.

hard to disagree. tough job. i still think questions need to be asked in situations like this though mate...

 

[Raziel]

For every 100 correct reactions the police make I bet there is less than 1 wrong, but saying the police do a good job is not provocative enough.

Police work isn't like any other, yes there is training for the job, but unlike changing a tire or fixing an engine their job is in most, spontaneous and therefore all you can do as a Policeman or woman is act spontaneously, that is the nature of the job.

But at the times the police make a right decision it counts for nothing once something goes wrong. When the police do something routinely well it does not stay newsworthy regardless of the bigger impact.

This is forgotten already https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15525...s-woman-whose-last-words-were-hes-still-here/

Mate, if you make a 100 right decisions and the 1 wrong one leads to someone's death, fudge yes, you have to answer.

People are assholes, and if you are in a job that has to control, interface, whatever with them, it's not fun, but the "poor police view" forgets something
#1. Volunteer job, nobody ever was forced to be a cop
#2. Your gig is to protect the population (not yourself), and yes that means you have to assume some risk vs. taking a stance of protect myself at all cost. If you want a them or me job, join the fudging army
#3. Policing in almost every major country as a job doesn't crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs list, yet all we hear is how much danger they face every day, really?

Most of the videos I've seen of wrong police decisions generally highlight poorly trained, panicked cops that lead to bad decision making. If cops are acting spontaneously, that is a huge red flag, that is the point of training, to make reaction predictable.

 

[scaramanga]

Mate, if you make a 100 right decisions and the 1 wrong one leads to someone's death, fudge yes, you have to answer.

People are assholes, and if you are in a job that has to control, interface, whatever with them, it's not fun, but the "poor police view" forgets something
#1. Volunteer job, nobody ever was forced to be a cop
#2. Your gig is to protect the population (not yourself), and yes that means you have to assume some risk vs. taking a stance of protect myself at all cost. If you want a them or me job, join the fudgeing army
#3. Policing in almost every major country as a job doesn't crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs list, yet all we hear is how much danger they face every day, really?

Most of the videos I've seen of wrong police decisions generally highlight poorly trained, panicked cops that lead to bad decision making. If cops are acting spontaneously, that is a huge red flag, that is the point of training, to make reaction predictable.

How do you improve the training without putting up my taxes?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Policing is becoming more difficult each year, a section of society neither respect or fear the actions the police have open to them. When I was younger there was a certain stigma attached to you if you got on the wrong side of the law, I don't think that still the case, it could effect your job opportunities, now many people have little or no job opportunities or don't want them. I have a relative with a son who has been involved with the police on many occasions for various offences and he's not bothered with what will happen as he thinks he'll just get an other warning, fine or tag. I don't know the answer as the prison system does not appear to stop recidivist.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Policing is becoming more difficult each year, a section of society neither respect or fear the actions the police have open to them. When I was younger there was a certain stigma attached to you if you got on the wrong side of the law, I don't think that still the case, it could effect your job opportunities, now many people have little or no job opportunities or don't want them. I have a relative with a son who has been involved with the police on many occasions for various offences and he's not bothered with what will happen as he thinks he'll just get an other warning, fine or tag. I don't know the answer as the prison system does not appear to stop recidivist.

I've never been to prison thankfully or even been arrested, but from what I have read/heard about prisons, it is absolute hell for some of the inmates, some of whom get repeatedly attacked and abused and the guards just turn a blind eye to it. How that is supposed to reform people I have no idea.

I know for example that American prison guards are on borderline minimum wage, so they are ripe for bribery. Goes back to what I was saying earlier about people in all walks of life being susceptible to corruption.

 

[Bullet]

the full facts are snippy not available.

You do post some tosh when it comes to the police, Steff.
You're right that the full facts are not available.

But we know he used to be built like a brick outhouse.
We know he was covered in blood.
We know he was ranting and raving and threatening to kill his 85 year old father.
We know he claimed to have already killed the rest of his family.
We know it was dark.
We are told he stumbled towards the police, not heeding their warnings.
Damn right I would Taser him, that is what the Taser is for.
I wouldn't try to tackle him to the floor, since he could easily have a weapon (to kill his father).

 

[Lemonade Money]

The reason why I will always question the police, is in my experience, anyone I've known personally or had dealings with has been a macaron or bent, or both. In my opinion, being a police officer (likewise being a nurse) should be a highly respected member of the community, and paid really well accordingly, so that it is something people aspire to be, and you get the best in these positions. All I see is macarons becoming policemen because it is easy money if you are no good at anything else, and nurses because they are generally caring people, and do so in spite of bad pay.

 

[scaramanga]

Policing is becoming more difficult each year, a section of society neither respect or fear the actions the police have open to them. When I was younger there was a certain stigma attached to you if you got on the wrong side of the law, I don't think that still the case, it could effect your job opportunities, now many people have little or no job opportunities or don't want them. I have a relative with a son who has been involved with the police on many occasions for various offences and he's not bothered with what will happen as he thinks he'll just get an other warning, fine or tag. I don't know the answer as the prison system does not appear to stop recidivist.

Three strikes.

 

[thfcsteff]

You do post some tosh when it comes to the police, Steff.
You're right that the full facts are not available.

But we know he used to be built like a brick outhouse.
We know he was covered in blood.
We know he was ranting and raving and threatening to kill his 85 year old father.
We know he claimed to have already killed the rest of his family.
We know it was dark.
We are told he stumbled towards the police, not heeding their warnings.
Damn right I would Taser him, that is what the Taser is for.
I wouldn't try to tackle him to the floor, since he could easily have a weapon (to kill his father).

Let's just wait and see how much 'tosh' I'm talking shall we?
Let's just wait and see what the investigation brings up shall we?
How many times would you use your Taser?

 

[Grays_1890]

People could live within the letter of the law, there is novel idea

 

[scaramanga]

People could live within the letter of the law, there is novel idea

Quite.

I've managed to go my whole life without being tasered.