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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by markysimmo, 27 Feb 2020.

  1. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Pedro Mendes

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    I agree the vaccine has been great for the pandemic but it certainly also has its flaws, there was never an expectation of having three within a calender year and we have had to learn along as we go with the vaccine as we have with the vaccine. And the main benefit has been to reduce the symptom in the person that's vaccinated any other benefit are far less conclusive and in my opinion there is not enough evidence for us to be able to shame the low risk groups for not having the vaccine.
     
  2. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    The manner they present them is wrong.
    The figures are not wrong and i dare that the studies based on those figures are using them correctly, so it isn't an issue of that.
    But the way they are presented is an issue.
    They lack context, are unclear and don't tell the full story.
     
    Lilbaz likes this.
  3. johnola

    johnola Teemu Tainio

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    Yes. A vaccinated person has a great deal more protection than an unvaccinated person.

    I am surprised this conversation is necessary.
     
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  4. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Jimmy Cantrell

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    I think there’s definitely some merit in people being skeptical about getting vaccinated due to the speed in which it came about, and there’s a discussion to be had around the overall safety of the vaccines but we won’t likely have all of the information as to whether it can cause health issues for years. But when people are questioning whether the vaccines work against covid, I do not think that is even debatable.
     
  5. johnola

    johnola Teemu Tainio

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    If somebody was not convinced by the authorising bodies back in November 2019 they cannot offer the same rationale 400+ days and billions of test cases later.
     
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  6. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Chris Perry

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    I guess there argument would be that the timespan they are concerned about has not been reached yet - which is a reasonable argument.
    However, if they weren't convinced by the authorising bodies in 19/20, they only have a sound argument if they have never taken medication in their life.
    You could also extend that to only cooking homemade food.

    There will be some people to whom they applies, but it will low thousands globally at best.
     
  7. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    90% of adults in the uk have been vaccinated. Yes there are side effects. Yes some severe but they are very rare.

    It's not like covid came along and the vaccination technology was made up on the spot. They'd been working on it for years. Just with other viruses in mind. This pandemic just accelerated need and finances. It just shows what we can do when focussed.

    It should have been even faster. If we had carried on investing in a vaccine for sars covid 1, we could have adapted it quickly. But becaise it no longer was an issue money dried up.
     
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  8. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    A good example of how things are adapted is the symptom study. Was designed by kings college to record peoples diets and their effects. Covid came along, it took a week to adapt it. Probably the most accurate and up to date record of covid cases in the world.

    On a completely different level. Lithium ion batteries. Developed in the 70s. But nobody could be srsed to switch production. Until sony came along wanting good rechargeable batteries for their walkmans and gameboys. The battery companies didn't want to switch. So the made them themselves.

    Tesla with the ev. The other manufacturers are now playing catchup.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2022
  9. Craig_J

    Craig_J Gudni Bergsson

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    That’s the thing, people say that if you get jabbed your protected, but then get upset about unvaccinated people because they consider them a threat who might infect them and others.

    Then, when someone who questions whether vaccines are necessary points out that even people who are triple vaccinated still get sick, and that the virus is going to go through all of us anyway... someone says “ahhh it will but you’ll be less likely to have severe consequences if your vaccinated.”

    Then what’s your concern if you get it anyway if your triple vaxxed and aren’t going to suffer any severe consequence anyway?

    If you’ve had 3 vaccines and you’re both still vulnerable to Covid, and still worried about suffering severe consequences then the vaccines are not doing their job properly.

    Funnily enough I seem to remember the government saying we needed two vaccines for full protection against the virus during the vaccine rollout. what another load of lies! Isn’t what it was sold to us as in the slightest!

    Before anyone says I’ve survived the entire pandemic unvaccinated without getting Covid. I worked in care so had tests every week and did lateral flows sometimes too. On 2 different occasions I didn’t get Covid despite working multiple 12 hour shifts sat right next to someone (colleague) who was positive, talking to each other face to face with masks down.

    I decided to get first vaccine 2 weeks ago, purely because I have worked in care and if I move back to England it’s compulsory to be vaccinated. I also know that further measures will be brought in over the next year.

    Never in my life have I felt more forced into doing something I don’t agree with to please others. As someone at risk of Huntington’s disease, I worry about anything I put in my body that can bring Huntington’s on earlier. Even eating too much dairy or not exercising can I need TP for my bunghole earlier)

    A health decision that is no one else’s business what so ever has been asked about by quite a few people, and it implied I should feel guilty for putting other peoples health at risk. tinkle off, you have no rights to ask why I have came to the decisions I have or what my reasons for not getting vaccinated are (were)

    A health decision that is no one else’s right to determine by myself has seen pressures put around me to make my life uncomfortable if I don’t conform to what people want. And to think this is supposed to be a free country!

    A health decision that could have severe repercussions on myself in future and leave me disabled if it goes wrong, cos who knows what happens to anyone over years, let alone someone with potentially a rare disease,

    And then the most annoying part of it is that the vaccines don’t work properly anyway. They just make irrational people feel better somehow. You are not protected at all and the small amount of your protection you have wears of rapidly the moment you leave the clinic. Leading to one vaccine every six months so that people can stay fully - but actually not fully or completely - protected for about six weeks.


    At the end of the day the vulnerable being triple shotted sounds right. If vaccines are legitimate now they are fully protected and won’t experience any ill effects can we just get on with things as normal? I doubt the last 15% who still refuse to be vaccinated are going to do anything that jeopardises anyone whose likely to suffer ill effects health, because the 3 vaccines mean they are fully protected and less likely to suffer ill effect, at leat according to what we were told, and everyone acknowledges the virus will pass through all of us.

    It will only be the last 15% at risk of serious illness, supposedly, so what does it matter if the vulnerable are now jabbed? What needed to be done is done, get on with things and if people die of the virus still then it seems the jab isn’t working anyway.

    And I guarantee you the vulnerable people dying at this point are so much more likely to catch the virus from someone whose triple or double jabbed, simply because thats the majority now.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2022
    3DSpur likes this.
  10. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    It's not that simple.

    Some math might help. If you are tripple vaxxed you have 70% protection. If you meet someone that is tripple vaxxed they are 70% less likely to be infected than sombody who isn't vaxxed. So you are much less likely to catch covid from them.

    The second and more important bit. Is if you are unvaxxinated, you are much more likely to need hospital treatment (think it's 10 times as much) than somebody who is. So a&e's get clogged up. There are no ambulances because they are full of unvaccinated people that there are no beds in the hospital for. So if you have a stroke/heart attack/ fall down the stairs... nobody will come and help. So you die. Because selfish pricks don't want to be told what to do.
     
  11. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    I don't normally watch these things but i was on YouTube and at a bit of a loose end and seen it on my feed.
    The dr Campbell guy, he was talking about studies just being released and how positive they were. All good.
    End of the video he starts talking vaccine, he said that he is ashamed to say that its taken nearly two years to for scientists (including himself) to realise they have been targeting the virus with the wrong type of vaccine.
    Its all technology/science that they know about and is the obvious way to treat it he cannot figure out why they ran down the road that they have.
    Can't claim to understand the science, but if true (and this guy is held in high regard from what I see) then that is scary.
     
  12. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Pedro Mendes

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    But that does not explain the whole situation, percentages are fluid based on the fact everyones body reacts different to Covid anyway and the % chance of you bumping into an unvaccinated person changing etc.
     
  13. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    No. The percentages are worked out by the ons on the population as a whole.
     
  14. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Pedro Mendes

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    But does not take into account entire variations of additional data which would manipulate those stats, they are very flat.
     
  15. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    Have you got a link?

    I watch him quite regularly and am not sure you got that right (might be wrong). I know the pfizer and moderna vaccines are very good at producing anti body protection. But for long lasting immunity from severe illness you want more tcells. Which astrazeneca is better at. Which is why europe may have a harder time (especialy as they have less natural infections). Than the uk. Mixing them seems to give a better all round immunity.
     
  16. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    They are not looking at individual cases. They are looking at the whole and how that will effect things.

    There are people that will be unvaxxed that never catch it. Good for them. They will take that percentage into consideration.

    Just so you know how it works. The ons takes random tests of around 100,000 households a week. All around the country. All ethnicities, social classes, sexualities, vaccine status, age whatever. To get a picture of what the virus is doing. Who it's effecting and where. They then extrapolate that for the whole population.

    The problem is, it's a week out of date.

    The symptom study has very similar results but is updated daily.
     
  17. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    They also follow up. To get an idea who is more likely to get severe illness. How long symptoms last. What the symptoms are etc...
     
  18. markysimmo

    markysimmo Johnny nice-tits

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  19. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    I haven't, but it was posted on the 12th of January.
     
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  20. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Michael Carrick

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    Cheers. Don't get me wrong, the vaccines have helped a lot. But we were hoping for more.
     

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