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Coronavirus
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Even more abstract? Or true liberation from Government control?
I think Facebook really threatened the establishment with their proposed online currency. Overnight all the players in the online space backed out. Facebook had them onside but then the US government saw the reality: they wouldn’t control this currency. Who would do the quantitative easing? Adjust interest rates?
So they the government said to these huge online players, sure go ahead get involved in this new currency, but we’ll be going through your books with a fine tooth comb. You’re with us or against us basically. And overnight everyone stepped away.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Looool
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
A 'debt jubilee' is well and truly an option. It is divisive though.
I don't care that they didn't go further, they went too fas as it was.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Thousands of lives. From freak babies and young, through to 40 year olds, 60 years old, people who would have lived long lives most probably. It is not hard to see that this virus affects people who don't have underlying conditions as well.
Effective yes but at what cost? You can be tracked by spending on your bank card, mobile phone signal etc. When there was an outbreak in the gay district people who caught it were more afraid of their family and employers finding out they'd been there than catching the virus. That's a sad state of affairs.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
I said it would be divisive.
But debts that can't be paid won't be paid.
Let's face it this is World War levels.
If we can't pay what we owe to investors then the £ is worthless. We won't be able to borrow again in any of our lifetimes.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
You're starting to get the picture now.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
The only comfort (if you can call it that) is we are not the only country in this very big boat
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I think that is the idea a one off every country does it so yes all investors lose out much like savers have from low interest rates.
But then it could possibly stop a world war. I think the financial situation for so many means they would vote for more extreme governments. I like any ideas that could stop that.
The is also a case for saying it would be good for the environment because governments would not have to lower standards to get economies moving again
Mikey10
Pat van den Hauwe
Many (probably thousands) have died with pre-existing conditions who would have gone on and lived happily and pretty healthily for 20, 30, 40 years more.
I’m 49. I’ve got Type 1 diabetes. If I died from covid tomorrow I’d be down as someone with a pre-existing condition. I run half marathons, I walk 40 miles or so a week, I cycle, I swim. In short, I’m healthy in every way bar having a non-functioning pancreas.
Writing people off because they have pre-existing conditions makes it sound like they are all on the verge of death anyhow. In my opinion, it’s a crass and very simplistic way of looking at the awful covid mortality figures in this country.
That might not be so bad if we weren't about to run a WWII sized deficit for at least the rest of our lifetimes.You're starting to get the picture now.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
There are no easy answers, just less painful ones. (Remember noone likes taking the medicine)...
Most of the world was in a debt mess from 2008, nothing really happened, we pumped printed money into the banks that just served to inflate asset bubbles and put the loan book on life support low interest rates. The corporate market gobbled up what they could to pump up the corporate bond market that now resembles junk, well until the Fed pumps more magic money in to save it from collapse. And then of course we have personal debt running at GHod knows what (for what?) .. then a pandemic comes along and really puts the whole system in jeopardy.
Government s thought austerity might get us out of the 2008 mess but really we were treading water. Shame as it was the ethical thing to do (but no clam liked it). With the cost of the pandemic blowing up day by day we really are at World War numbers, and it appears the government have given up with adding anything up...it's open season on handouts. I can see why politically, all other news is so bad it's the only positive spin they can turn to.
They are in a roundabout way converting personal and corporate debt into public debt with the measures they're taking and continue to introduce. I think due to the direct nature of this money gifting,inflation will be along soon. Maybe that's the plan, use it as a tool to shrink the debt. There is some massive flaws to it though, eg give more money to people that are not very good with money
., If interest rates have to go up, loads will be underwater.But with all the sovereign debt build up we could see a cross country cancellation of some sort, as much of what's been 'lent' out its not coming back. Alternatively if we're bailing companies out we might as well take an equity stake and build a national sovereign wealth fund.
As @Danishfurniturelover says to have such a millstone round our neck and potentially slipping into something akin to a depression will hamper so much we have on our plate nationally and globally (climate).
Edit: just to add, that a real depression will only rile up, in the most ugly way, the hate between the have's and have nots as well.
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Not much point in cancelling international debt - we owe almost exactly what is owed to us. Would be entirely neutral as a method.There are no easy answers, just less painful ones. (Remember noone likes taking the medicine)...
Most of the world was in a debt mess from 2008, nothing really happened, we pumped printed money into the banks that just served to inflate asset bubbles and put the loan book on life support low interest rates. The corporate market gobbled up what they could to pump up the corporate bond market that now resembles junk, well until the Fed pumps more magic money in to save it from collapse. And then of course we have personal debt running at GHod knows what (for what?) .. then a pandemic comes along and really puts the whole system in jeopardy.
Government s thought austerity might get us out of the 2008 mess but really we were treading water. Shame as it was the ethical thing to do (but no clam liked it). With the cost of the pandemic blowing up day by day we really are at World War numbers, and it appears the government have given up with adding anything up...it's open season on handouts. I can see why politically, all other news is so bad it's the only positive spin they can turn to.
They are in a roundabout way converting personal and corporate debt into public debt with the measures they're taking and continue to introduce. I think due to the direct nature of this money gifting,inflation will be along soon. Maybe that's the plan, use it as a tool to shrink the debt. There is some massive flaws to it though, eg give more money to people that are not very good with money
But with all the sovereign debt build up we could see a cross country cancellation of some sort, as much of what's been 'lent' out its not coming back. Alternatively if we're bailing companies out we might as well take an equity stake and build a national sovereign wealth fund.
As @Danishfurniturelover says to have such a millstone round our neck and potentially slipping into something akin to a depression will hamper so much we have on our plate nationally and globally (climate).
Edit: just to add, that a real depression will only rile up, in the most ugly way, the hate between the have's and have nots as well.
It's the national debt that's a problem (and getting worse with all this overspend), but much of that is in pension funds, etc. Default on that and we're in Venezuela territory.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
I meant an unilateral agreement across countries to cancel X amount of national debt concurrently. So to help all countries...and blame it on Covid an 'exceptional circumstance'
We really are now plotting a course on the MMT version of economics. It started with the gradual observation (circa 2008) that 'nothing is allowed to fail' and since then central banks have served up QE by the lorry load, buying back gov bonds from investors and guaranteed buyer of the current new never ending debt. I think their independence can certainly be questioned now?
The problems are...this endless money supply hasn't trickled itself down to the average Joe (*until now with the covid measures), and has probably served to grow the wealth gap even further, wage inflation is still slow, and much of what's found its way invested in corporate companies is just a life support machine. It's the biggest pack of cards ever but it will be interesting to see how far things can go before that actual intrinsic value of money itself comes into question especially since we have long since decoupled from the gold standard as a point of reference.
The alternative, of using traditional beliefs ie if you borrow something you have to pay it back, balance the books etc...is unthinkable given the hole we are in ( I'm not saying it's right , just unthinkable), the shake out would be so destructive and 10 years too late. Thats also why I question the central banks independence as it appears it's being guided by economic policy.
I don't think we'll end up in a basket case country scenario, mainly because of our culture and (largely) uncorrupt government (don't @ me on that, there's levels
).
I agree with the rest of your post, but not this.
What's the point (for us) of cancelling international debt when we owe as much as we are owed? We're basically net zero (give or take) in terms of debt, so it wouldn't help us.
