Coronavirus

[Hootnow]

you seem to have a very “it’s all our fault” view. Personally mine is we could have done better and China has huge questions to answer. I think that’s balanced and not an out of order point of view.

It’s nothing to do with a right wing nature, I actually find that a cop out to say you can’t criticise the Chinese for their early attitude, it’s not a right wing view to criticise their fudging of numbers which would no doubt have an impact on how the world gauged the spread, if you can’t question that then GHod help us.

As for defending Boris I don’t do it blind, he he made mistakes yes (that’s likely to be ignored) but I just have a belief that governing is a lot harder than what people on here make out with Poundland utopian views to run the country and I would maintain that view regardless of who was in charge.

Nope, I don't have a very its all our fault view at all. I have criticised China. I have criticised the WHO (not on here as its not really come up before). I have criticised other countries responses too. Obviously though we will focus on the UK in what is an overwhelmingly British board. If I started going into the responses of Merkel, Conte, Sanchez, Erdogen, Loong, Moon, Abe, Macron etc, I imagine people would shut off or come back with something about their national characters compared to our inherently freedom loving nature etc.

I think I've made it quite clear that the bolded is my view (except I feel we could have done a lot better) but a lot on here seem to want to focus almost exclusively on China's initial response and come up with excuses about how difficult it is to govern for our lot, as if there aren't governments around the world currently doing a much better job. And is governing also just difficut for Boris and too much for silly Brits to understand? Or do the leaders of other countries live in a totally different world where they do live in Utopian poundland governments?

I feel there's a lot of strawmen here. I have criticised their early response (while also acknowledging that if an Opthalmologist went up to the UK government and told them they think there may be a new viral infection based on 8 cases in the UK or USA, they'd probably be told to shut up and go back at looking at eyes).

Again, stop making up strawmen. I have never once said I believe their numbers, in fact I'm 100% sure they are still lying about their numbers right now.

What criticisms you have made of Boris on here? As opposed to just finding blame with China or the WHO?

 

[Mikey10]

Yet they're all running around with an app on their phone that traces their every movement.

That’s actually not true of South Korea - as the article states.

You don’t think that your phone can’t already be used for that purpose if the police and courts desire?

 

[Grays_1890]

Nope, I don't have a very its all our fault view at all. I have criticised China. I have criticised the WHO (not on here as its not really come up before). I have criticised other countries responses too. Obviously though we will focus on the UK in what is an overwhelmingly British board. If I started going into the responses of Merkel, Conte, Sanchez, Erdogen, Loong, Moon, Abe, Macron etc, I imagine people would shut off or come back with something about their national characters compared to our inherently freedom loving nature etc.

I think I've made it quite clear that the bolded is my view (except I feel we could have done a lot better) but a lot on here seem to want to focus almost exclusively on China's initial response and come up with excuses about how difficult it is to govern for our lot, as if there aren't governments around the world currently doing a much better job. And is governing also just difficut for Boris and too much for silly Brits to understand? Or do the leaders of other countries live in a totally different world where they do live in Utopian poundland governments?

I feel there's a lot of strawmen here. I have criticised their early response (while also acknowledging that if an Opthalmologist went up to the UK government and told them they think there may be a new viral infection based on 8 cases in the UK or USA, they'd probably be told to shut up and go back at looking at eyes).

Again, stop making up strawmen. I have never once said I believe their numbers, in fact I'm 400% sure they are still lying about their numbers right now.

What criticisms you have made of Boris on here? As opposed to just finding blame with China or the WHO?

I said Boris could have done more, I agreed with your posts on that last week but for me it’s not just one of the other.

The fact you acknowledge the Chinese are more than likely still lying gets to the route of my issue, lying and covering up from day one to now caused or causes more damage to the worlds fight than the U.K. trying to react, that doesn’t give Boris a free ride it’s just a view I hold. China were more worried about their image which has been the route of communism for ever and its damaged the recovery process.

 

[Hootnow]

Indeed. This is an interesting piece which suggests the opposite about the South Korean public’s response - i.e. that they have a 30 year history of holding their government to account on all manner of things, including health care. Less of the British public’s tugging of the forelock and more rigorous questioning - and action - when they feel things are not being done properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...citizens-state-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And confirmation that we are still heading to the top of the European mortality chart. No doubt today’s 5.00pm flimflam spreading will start with a focus on ‘only’ 37,000 UK deaths are now predicted.

Hopefully Boris is still in good spirits though.

Indeed. I have a friend who lives in Busan in Southern Korea who has literally just now sent me a video of a huge procession going through the streets and people packed on the road and pavements.

I think after this, we'll have an enquiry, blame a few lower level people, probably the public and medical professionals in some way and everything will go on as normal.

 

[Grays_1890]

Milan? Rome? Madrid? Barcelona? There were literally thousands dying in Italy and we were still being told it was fine to attend Cheltenham and PL football matches. How much information did we need?



Indeed. This is an interesting piece which suggests the opposite about the South Korean public’s response - i.e. that they have a 30 year history of holding their government to account on all manner of things, including health care. Less of the British public’s tugging of the forelock and more rigorous questioning - and action - when they feel things are not being done properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...citizens-state-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And confirmation that we are still heading to the top of the European mortality chart. No doubt today’s 5.00pm flimflam spreading will start with a focus on ‘only’ 37,000 UK deaths now being predicted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-uk-coronavirus-deaths?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Hopefully Boris is still in good spirits though.

The U.K. is the most densely populated with 400+ people per Sq KM. So we were always going to struggle, our figures are no worse when put into context. We are not trending off on our own tangent like the suggestion

 

[Mikey10]

Indeed. I have a friend who lives in Busan in Southern Korea who has literally just now sent me a video of a huge procession going through the streets and people packed on the road and pavements.

I think after this, we'll have an enquiry, blame a few lower level people, probably the public and medical professionals in some way and everything will go on as normal.

It’s the British way.

 

[Hootnow]

I said Boris could have done more, I agreed with your posts on that last week but for me it’s not just one of the other.

The fact you acknowledge the Chinese are more than likely still lying gets to the route of my issue, lying and covering up from day one to now caused or causes more damage to the worlds fight than the U.K. trying to react, that doesn’t give Boris a free ride it’s just a view I hold. China were more worried about their image which has been the route of communism for ever and its damaged the recovery process.

You're looking at this from an Internationalist pov, which is unusual for this board. If you're trying to gauge who did more damage to the global response between the UK and China, then of course there is absolutely no contest. I'm not talking about the global response though but the British response and who is responsible for that. It isn't like we're living in a vacuum. If you're so insistent that East Asian democracies are so different from us so as to render comparison impossible, then compare to some of our peers in Europe, many of whom have ended up having to do a less strict lockdown because of their earlier lockdown.

I have only harsh words for China's initial response, their government as a whole, their governing system and things like the concentration camps they run in the NW of the country.

I think it is interesting that you talk about governments and people not criticising because all they do is provide their poundland opinions on the internet...while in the very same post, criticising the initial response there. Not that it doesn't deserve criticism but in some peoples' minds, literally everything there is now given malicious agency, at the beginning of a completely unknown situation. S

o the governing and decision making then, in a completely novel situation, is apparently easy but the response of our government, once we've had at least 2 months warning, is far more difficult. And we should essentially shut up and get in line because we don't know what we're talking about and need to listen to our superiors.

 

[scaramanga]

It's just happened too slowly. Of course it is not easy. But a few weeks back, find these machines, fly army personnel or the minister out to factories that makes the stuff in a jet and leave until you have what we need, ask our manufacturers to replicate the kit, license the tech to make it ourselves and do it all last week. You feel like some nobs on the Apprentice would have made a better stab at it.

Find them from where? There weren't any.

The alternative testing requires items that are not available.

The knowledge and ability to make these things take time. They're rare skills. No amount of money can speed them beyond a limit.

 

[scaramanga]

That’s actually not true of South Korea - as the article states.

You don’t think that your phone can’t already be used for that purpose if the police and courts desire?

Yes I do. It's It's actually not very hard to stay private at all if that's your wish. It for a layman, but it can be done with a little care.

 

[Hootnow]

@Grays_1890 I do agree with you that part of the reason for London's high rate is the fact its an international business and tourist hub.

 

[Kandi1977]

The man is so fudging stupid, that if you cut away the top of his head and looked what's inside, you'd see his feet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1248811186432413707

 

[SpurMeUp]

And if what you're walking to is 3000 miles away and the event is tomorrow?

We need 3000 miles covered by tomorrow? Get 1000 people to walk 3 miles each. Or train up thousands of people to take blood and conduct tests manually. Maybe it’s possible maybe it is not, but it is one option of many that should have been explored 6 weeks ago.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[johnola]

My own households preparation for a pandemic was risible.

So I don’t feel well placed to criticise Boris et al.

On the other hand, my employers have had me isolated for five complete weeks and got the whole division wfh effectively.

 

[scaramanga]

We need 3000 miles covered by tomorrow? Get 1000 people to walk 3 miles each. Or train up thousands of people to take blood and conduct tests manually. Maybe it’s possible maybe it is not, but it is one option of many that should have been explored 6 weeks ago.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Again, the manual tests require items we do not have and are, as I understand it, in shortage the world over.

 

[Grays_1890]

@Grays_1890 I do agree with you that part of the reason for London's high rate is the fact its an international business and tourist hub.

Yeh London is a game changer on the stats

 

[scaramanga]

My own households preparation for a pandemic was risible.

So I don’t feel well placed to criticise Boris et al.

On the other hand, my employers have had me isolated for five complete weeks and got the whole division wfh effectively.

The way businesses have adapted quickly shows just how good the private sector is at this kind of thing.

IMO one of the reasons why Germany is on top of this brick in a way we couldn't possibly be.

 

[johnola]

The way businesses have adapted quickly shows just how good the private sector is at this kind of thing.

IMO one of the reasons why Germany is on top of this brick in a way we couldn't possibly be.

Something different in Germany that seems clear- you can see why they led in Europe and that we still have a vacuum of leadership at many levels.

A collective loss of confidence that will take a generation to fix.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think it is interesting that you talk about governments and people not criticising because all they do is provide their poundland opinions on the internet...while in the very same post, criticising the initial response there.

There are a lot of Poundland theories on here.

Difference in your example is I criticised a reaction based on lies so a country could save face, the very thing the Chinese hold closer than anything.

 

[Hootnow]

There are a lot of Poundland theories on here.

Difference in your example is I criticised a reaction based on lies so a country could save face, the very thing the Chinese hold closer than anything.

Which are the poundland theories?

Our reaction is not based on lies. Like I've said, since at the very latest late January, we have known what we needed to know about how serious this virus is. Yet we undertook very little action until it was too late.

It isn't the Chinese government's fault that we had unrestricted flights coming in from Milan or Turin without so much as a temperature check at our airports, even while the virus was ravaging through Lombardy.

Seems on this board for some that the only country difficult to govern is the UK.

 

[Hootnow]

Indeed. I have a friend who lives in Busan in Southern Korea who has literally just now sent me a video of a huge procession going through the streets and people packed on the road and pavements.

I think after this, we'll have an enquiry, blame a few lower level people, probably the public and medical professionals in some way and everything will go on as normal.

Along this route by the way, I saw good old Hanrooster yesterday already criticising NHS workers for their use of PPE. Arrogant twit.