Climate Change

[glasgowspur]

Isn't the problem the storage of that energy?

My understanding is that the power generation isn't smooth enough to go straight to the grid and be a reliable source. That means we need storage to smooth the delivery.

Batteries aren't nearly there yet for large scale storage, and most of the existing methods (pumping water up to a large reservoir, etc) are horribly inefficient.

Yes, want to be a combination of Einstein (revered genius) and Bezo (richest man in the world) invent an battery for storing electricity. And we are nowhere near doing it.

 

[Rorschach]

That may be true, but the fact that population is growing by 1 billion every decade means its happening to slow.

That was a joke. Incels will really save us.

 

[glasgowspur]

That was a joke. Incels will really save us.

Never heard of incels, had to Google it.
Wish I hadn't.

 

[Rorschach]

Never heard of incels, had to Google it.
Wish I hadn't.

That search will follow you around for the rest of your life now. Google never forgets!

 

[Rorschach]

This governments decision not to support the tidal energy plant in Wales was one of the most baffling I have seen in a long time. I have resolved not to talk politics or go in the politics thread or I will probably have to leave this site and never come back. But the tide is the one constant in this country and if it ever does not come in twice a day then we will all have far bigger issues to worry about.

We should be building tidal energy centres all over the UK and though the tech might not be quite there yet we should be building wave turbine technology in the sea round the whole coast of the UK, in the form of a national company that only UK people can invest in. People would love to go for it as they would know they are getting back on their investment as we will always need electricity and it could be done while limiting the buy to let market so as to help young people get on the property ladder.

*At this point I have to admit to two rental homes we own. If the were more investment opportunities for people they would not have to do the buy to let thing and if we could invest in green technology it would move the industry along more.

Tidal doesn't get many column inches in the stuff I read for some reason. Maybe as you say the tech is not far enough advanced to make is finanically viable. I'm not sure the issue is storage as scara mention as all renewables have peaks and troughs, morseso solar for obvious reasons. The grid is a balancing act of all the power sources and it is used or sold rather than stored. For the UK offshore wind is probably the most viable commercial option for now, and domestically solar is the only thing worth considering.

 

[Rorschach]

Yes, want to be a combination of Einstein (revered genius) and Bezo (richest man in the world) invent an battery for storing electricity. And we are nowhere near doing it.

We're closer than you think. I'm normally pessimetic about this stuff but not on the tech side. Green tech is racing ahead at a staggering speed and that includes batteries. The adoption of the tech is more of an issue now.

Bezo is a massive clown shoe but he does invest where he sees a return. He has his finger in very pie including green tech. For instance he a co-investor in that fusion company with Bill Gates.

 

[glasgowspur]

We're closer than you think. I'm normally pessimetic about this stuff but not on the tech side. Green tech is racing ahead at a staggering speed and that includes batteries. The adoption of the tech is more of an issue now.

Bezo is a massive clown shoe but he does invest where he sees a return. He has his finger in very pie including green tech. For instance he a co-investor in that fusion company with Bill Gates.

Unless something has changed recently, 5 years or so, the solution to the storage of AC electricity is nowhere ready.

Storing DC in batteries, is totally different and brings another whole host of 'green' issues.

 

[Rorschach]

Unless something has changed recently, 5 years or so, the solution to the storage of AC electricity is nowhere ready.

Storing DC in batteries, is totally different and brings another whole host of 'green' issues.

5 years is a long time in the renewables game. Tesla have plants that store 100's of mega watts but these are just backup solutions. Anyway storage is not something a national grid should be focused on. Domestic storage is a more sustainable goal. In fact I'm putting a battery in the house I'm building now which will store everything the panels produce in one day which is about 2kwHrs. Produce it and use it the way I see it.

I thought all batteries were DC, to be honest.

 

[r-u-s-x]

The two biggest and best drivers behind population control are freedom from religion and female education.

Start a worldwide program of female education and the eradication of religion and you'll see population growth slow to almost a halt.

I thought the biggest driver is Economic, i.e. income. Rich Catholics have a higher birthrate than poor Atheists.

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/main-factors-driving-population-growth/

Globally, fertility among Hindus (2.4 children per woman) and Jews (2.3) is above the replacement level (2.1 children). Fertility rates among all the other groups – followers of folk religions (1.8), other religions as a whole (1.7), the religiously unaffiliated (1.7) and Buddhists (1.6) – are below the replacement level, meaning the groups are not bearing enough children to maintain their current populations, all else remaining equal.

 

[glasgowspur]

5 years is a long time in the renewables game. Tesla have plants that store 100's of mega watts but these are just backup solutions. Anyway storage is not something a national grid should be focused on. Domestic stoage is a more sustainable goal. In fact I'm putting a battery in the house I'm building now which will store everything the panels produce in one day which is about 2kwHrs. Produce it and use it the way I see it.

I thought all batteries were DC, to be honest.

All batteries are DC, direct current.
AC, alternating Current is what comes out the wall socket.
I'm hopeless at explaining stuff and it's been 20 plus years since I was in any way up on this, so I won't even try, but we've yet to find a way to store AC. It may not even be possible.

Most batteries today will leave their own toxic legacy due to the materials or the mining of the materials.

 

[scaramanga]

I thought the biggest driver is Economic, i.e. income. Rich Catholics have a higher birthrate than poor Atheists.

I don't remember where the data are from, but I do remember reading that lifting people out of poverty had a far smaller effect than educating women. Comparisons between equally poor communities showed that religious groups were churning out fanatics at a far higher rate than atheists people.

Of course, across much of the world, lack of wealth, lack of female education and religion are all very closely tied.

 

[Rorschach]

All batteries are DC, direct current.
AC, alternating Current is what comes out the wall socket.
I'm hopeless at explaining stuff and it's been 20 plus years since I was in any way up on this, so I won't even try, but we've yet to find a way to store AC. It may not even be possible.

Most batteries today will leave their own toxic legacy due to the materials or the mining of the materials.

No need to explain. I know all that stuff I did electrical engineering for a couple of years in college and worked as a energy consultant to the resdential building sector for about 6 years, and still do a bit of moonlighting. The battery (or PV panel) output runs through an inverter to turn it into AC for your house or to put it back in the grid, where they allow that.

I've never heard of an AC battery and in my head I can;t see see how that would work. I'll do a bit of research though.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Capitalism is perfectly equipped to combat climate change, the problem is that people are fighting the wrong fight. Those trying to make a change are trying to get everyone to wear hair shirts and then wonder why they face resistance.

Despite caring about the effects of global warming, I will often forget to take a carrier bag to the supermarket. So when I get to the till, I will pay the required amount (and it would have to be really high before it would stop me), take my shopping home and bin the bags.
I realise that needless air travel has a negative effect, but I'm fudged if I'm driving to Saudi Sportswashing Machine or getting a train there if I have to go. I'm not holidaying in the UK either for that matter.

Capitalism has the answer. The first person to invent an electric car that is the equal of a real car will be a very, very rich person indeed - the rewards are huge. The same goes for the person who manages to invent environment-friendly air travel. People are always going to want these things, nobody is going to be convinced to reduce their quality of life. That argument has to be about how we provide what people currently have (or better) without causing the damage that current methods will.

Look at LED lighting. Initially it was fudging terrible - took forever to light up, rarely gave enough light, was waaaay more expensive than a standard light bulb, rarely lasted even half as long, etc. Now we do work for a few lighting companies that replace traditional lighting with LEDs and they can't fulfil their order books. Once someone tips technology past the point of equivalence, people will move to it.

Agree with most of the above.
However, governments can introduce legislation to combat some of the problems.
I believe, "3rd world" countries are taking huge steps in the right direction.
Some Examples from the top of my head:
- First, these mostly African countries, are the least contributors to climate change.
- Rwanda, banned single use plastic ( carrier bags , bottles, straws etc. ) a few years ago.
- Nearer home, in Kenya, we banned plastic carrier bags. No retailer is allowed to use these. The penalty
for using these bags was HUGE. There was a lot of "noise" from the retail sector. But the government didn't bend to the demands of big business. Everyone got used to the new reality VERY quickly. We just started taking our own non plastic bags when we went shopping. In case you forget to do so, the retailer is required to provide you with a non plastic, reusable carrier bag at a very reasonable price - like US$ 0.10 to 0.20 depending on the size.
- The government is now trying to ban single use plastic bottles, used primarily for soft drinks, mineral water etc.
This is going to be a big fight, as it is up against multinational giants like Coca Cola etc.
- And BTW, standard light bulbs are banned. You can only buy LED bulbs, torches, lamps etc.
Therefore, it can be done. Maybe difficult, but not impossible.

 

[AuroRaman]

Agree with most of the above.
However, governments can introduce legislation to combat some of the problems.
I believe, "3rd world" countries are taking huge steps in the right direction.
Some Examples from the top of my head:
- First, these mostly African countries, are the least contributors to climate change.
- Rwanda, banned single use plastic ( carrier bags , bottles, straws etc. ) a few years ago.
- Nearer home, in Kenya, we banned plastic carrier bags. No retailer is allowed to use these. The penalty
for using these bags was HUGE. There was a lot of "noise" from the retail sector. But the government didn't bend to the demands of big business. Everyone got used to the new reality VERY quickly. We just started taking our own non plastic bags when we went shopping. In case you forget to do so, the retailer is required to provide you with a non plastic, reusable carrier bag at a very reasonable price - like US$ 0.10 to 0.20 depending on the size.
- The government is now trying to ban single use plastic bottles, used primarily for soft drinks, mineral water etc.
This is going to be a big fight, as it is up against multinational giants like Coca Cola etc.
- And BTW, standard light bulbs are banned. You can only buy LED bulbs, torches, lamps etc.
Therefore, it can be done. Maybe difficult, but not impossible.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. In my opinion apart from resistance from Producers, us Western consumers are a bunch of pansies and snowflakes when it comes to the slightest inconvenience at all socio-economic levels

 

[glasgowspur]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. In my opinion apart from resistance from Producers, us Western consumers are a bunch of pansies and snowflakes when it comes to the slightest inconvenience at all socio-economic levels

Yep, too many see their wants as their rights.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I'm only 5m above sea level.......

so start doing something you C.UNTS.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm only 5m above sea level.......

so start doing something you C.UNTS.

Sheesh. Patience. We're burning brick as fast as we can.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The thing I don't get, if sea levels are rising then surely that's counteracted by ground levels rising.

Ground levels rising, you say? Well how come the archaeologists always have to dig down a couple of feet or more to discover what some f.ckers from a few centuries back were up to.

Eh

 

[Rorschach]

The thing I don't get, if sea levels are rising then surely that's counteracted by ground levels rising.

Ground levels rising, you say? Well how come the archaeologists always have to dig down a couple of feet or more to discover what some f.ckers from a few centuries back were up to.

Eh

Lava. Or someone buried them.

 

[braineclipse]

The thing I don't get, if sea levels are rising then surely that's counteracted by ground levels rising.

Ground levels rising, you say? Well how come the archaeologists always have to dig down a couple of feet or more to discover what some f.ckers from a few centuries back were up to.

Eh

Waiting for Trump to make that argument.