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Climate Change

Is the UK trying to go back to the 70s? Get rid of the trade that has helped us prosper, and let's get people mining coal again!
 
I thought the tidal power station between wales and england sounded like a great idea. I'm not completely sold on climate change but I love innovation. We are surrounded by water. Let's use it.
 
scaramanga said:
Reducing supply doesn't reduce demand, it just increases the price.

They're going to buy it from somewhere, we may as well make money out of it.
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If you view everything in life through the lens of commerce then this line of argument seems perfectly reasonable. Even ignoring the environmental arguments, arguments which are unassailable at this point, this mine maybe just another stranded fossil fuel asset within a decade if not sooner. It makes no sense whatever way you look at it.
 
Rorschach said:
If you view everything in life through the lens of commerce then this line of argument seems perfectly reasonable. Even ignoring the environmental arguments, arguments which are unassailable at this point, this mine maybe just another stranded fossil fuel asset within a decade if not sooner. It makes no sense whatever way you look at it.
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Unfortunately it does make sense, it's quite unpleasant.
We are heading towards strained economic activity from Brexit and up unemployment from Brexit and covid, so arguably any opportunities for increased economic activity and jobs will be "good" over the next few years.
That will be repeated across the world - it might be a very very weird few years.

I'm sure part of your (and my) counter argument would be "is that worth putting health and environment at risk?" - the answer is probably yes, as much as I hate that.
 
monkeybarry said:
Unfortunately it does make sense, it's quite unpleasant.
We are heading towards strained economic activity from Brexit and up unemployment from Brexit and covid, so arguably any opportunities for increased economic activity and jobs will be "good" over the next few years.
That will be repeated across the world - it might be a very very weird few years.

I'm sure part of your (and my) counter argument would be "is that worth putting health and environment at risk?" - the answer is probably yes, as much as I hate that.
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I couldn't disagree more. Might come back to this later.
 
Rorschach said:
If you view everything in life through the lens of commerce then this line of argument seems perfectly reasonable. Even ignoring the environmental arguments, arguments which are unassailable at this point, this mine maybe just another stranded fossil fuel asset within a decade if not sooner. It makes no sense whatever way you look at it.
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The environmental arguments only really work if the option for our potential customers is to buy from us or not at all.

That's not the case, those customers will buy the fossil fuel from somewhere no matter what we do. So why not be the ones earning from it?
 
Isn't the point that the future and growth will be in innovative green tech. Invest into that, rather than go backwards and contribute to a damaging old technology.
 
scaramanga said:
The environmental arguments only really work if the option for our potential customers is to buy from us or not at all.

That's not the case, those customers will buy the fossil fuel from somewhere no matter what we do. So why not be the ones earning from it?
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I'll refer you to my previous post. This anachronistic short term thinking has brought the planet to the brink of catastrophe. You are effectively arguing against engaging with any sort of climate mitigation as long as there is a buck to be made. Money is not the only consideration and there are other factors in play here above market forces.
 
Rorschach said:
I'll refer you to my previous post. This anachronistic short term thinking has brought the planet to the brink of catastrophe. You are effectively arguing against engaging with any sort of climate mitigation as long as there is a buck to be made. Money is not the only consideration and there are other factors in play here above market forces.
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I like to judge actions on the effect they have.

If we refuse to sell coal to the EU, they will buy it elsewhere and the only difference is that they will pay a little more and we will not make money from it. The net effect on the environment is nil - probably worse as the coal they buy will have to be transported from further away.

I agree that taking steps to reduce climate change is a benefit to us all, but this won't do anything to reduce climate change and will leave us with a load of coal we will never be able to sell.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Isn't the point that the future and growth will be in innovative green tech. Invest into that, rather than go backwards and contribute to a damaging old technology.
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I know people say tidal and wave turbines are not where they need to be yet. But surely heavily investing in these would be a good thing. Over the next 10 years they would reach where we want them to be. We could become an exporter of the technology.

I know we disagree on brexit, agree on many other things though. I think state aid in the renewable energy market could be a win win. It is the future of the world economy. One thing I agree with you on is that this government are a shower of brick with no idea how to properly plan things. I honestly think I could do a better job.
 
scaramanga said:
I like to judge actions on the effect they have.

If we refuse to sell coal to the EU, they will buy it elsewhere and the only difference is that they will pay a little more and we will not make money from it. The net effect on the environment is nil - probably worse as the coal they buy will have to be transported from further away.

I agree that taking steps to reduce climate change is a benefit to us all, but this won't do anything to reduce climate change and will leave us with a load of coal we will never be able to sell.
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It is also a bad investment that is only of benefit in the short term to a small number of people. Politically and ethically it is a massive own goal too.
 
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