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Changing a winning/drawing/losing team

Bedfordspurs

Bedfordspurs

Martin Peters
I thought I would do some research as in my head we havent named the same side twice back to back since we drew with the racists last season.

To check I went to the Spurs site and looked for different players coming in

After Chelsea 2-2
Southampton - Dembele out and Mason in (LOSE)
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - Davies in for Rose (Lose)
Everton away - Wanyama in for a mason and Alli in for Son (Draw)
Palace - Vorm in for Hugo and Jansenn in for Alli (WIN)
liverpoo -Alli in for Jansenn (DRAW)
Stoke - Lloris back, Davies in Son in for Lamella (WIN)
Monaco (home) - Lamella in for Wanyama as Alli moves back (LOSE)
Sunderland - Dier moved to defence, Verts to left back, Wanyama, sissoko and Dembele all in (WIn)
boro - Davies back and Jansenn in too (WIN)
CSKA - Lamella back in for Demebele and Trippier for Walker (WIN)
Emirates Marketing Project - Walker back, Rose back, sissoko back (Win)
WBA - Jansenn back for son and Davies for Rose (DRAW)
Leverkusen away - Trippier in, Rose in, Dier in defence and Son in for sissoko (DRAW)
Bournemouth - Walker back and Dembele in for Jansenn (draw)
Leicester - Lamella out for Jansenn (Draw)
Bayer at Wembley- Davies in again and Sissoko for Jansenn (Lose)
Arse - Wimmer in, Kane in, sissoko and Alli out (DRAW)
spam - winks in and Jansenn too , Wimmer out along with son (win)
Monaco - trippier in, Wimmer in, Alli in, son in, Walker, Verts, Jansenn and erisken all out (LOSE)
racists - Walker back for Trippier, erisken back for winks (lose)

So we're averaging over 2 changes a game due to injures, suspension and tinkering

We haven't played the same side back to back for at least 21 games!!!

Last season our success was built on stability but this one is built on a see saw it seems

With players coming back now we have to hope that it's no more tweaking and we play our best 11 whe possible as what else all the changes show is that our players have all had rests already
 
That's what has been so fudging frustrating about this season. For huge chunks of the year last season, the starting XI picked itself:

-----------Lloris----------
Walker--Toby-Jan-Rose
---Dier----Dembele----
Eriksen--Lamela--Alli
----------Kane----------

In my 15+ years of supporting Spurs, that has got to be one of the best (if not THE best) starting XI's I've ever enjoyed, and it seems like we just haven't had that XI in a game since Alli punched Yacob back in April or whatever. I like Wanyama, Son, Wimmer, Winks, Onomah etc, but that is the XI that I want to get back to seeing week in and week out.

Also, it is insane that people keep slagging off Pochettino, considering the core of Toby, Hugo, Kane, and Dembele has only played 77 minutes together all season, while Klopp, Conte, and Wenger have basically had all or most of their core players at full fitness this year. We'll see how Klopp copes without Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino, and Sturridge over the Christmas period. Or how Arsenal look if Sanchez, Ozil, or Koscielny miss extended time. Same goes for Kante, Hazard, Cahill, and Costa.

Poch hasn't been perfect, but let's all take a deep breath and remember the miserable luck we've had since the end of last season.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I thought I would do some research as in my head we havent named the same side twice back to back since we drew with the racists last season.

To check I went to the Spurs site and looked for different players coming in

After Chelsea 2-2
Southampton - Dembele out and Mason in (LOSE)
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - Davies in for Rose (Lose)
Everton away - Wanyama in for a mason and Alli in for Son (Draw)
Palace - Vorm in for Hugo and Jansenn in for Alli (WIN)
liverpoo -Alli in for Jansenn (DRAW)
Stoke - Lloris back, Davies in Son in for Lamella (WIN)
Monaco (home) - Lamella in for Wanyama as Alli moves back (LOSE)
Sunderland - Dier moved to defence, Verts to left back, Wanyama, sissoko and Dembele all in (WIn)
boro - Davies back and Jansenn in too (WIN)
CSKA - Lamella back in for Demebele and Trippier for Walker (WIN)
Emirates Marketing Project - Walker back, Rose back, sissoko back (Win)
WBA - Jansenn back for son and Davies for Rose (DRAW)
Leverkusen away - Trippier in, Rose in, Dier in defence and Son in for sissoko (DRAW)
Bournemouth - Walker back and Dembele in for Jansenn (draw)
Leicester - Lamella out for Jansenn (Draw)
Bayer at Wembley- Davies in again and Sissoko for Jansenn (Lose)
Arse - Wimmer in, Kane in, sissoko and Alli out (DRAW)
spam - winks in and Jansenn too , Wimmer out along with son (win)
Monaco - trippier in, Wimmer in, Alli in, son in, Walker, Verts, Jansenn and erisken all out (LOSE)
racists - Walker back for Trippier, erisken back for winks (lose)

So we're averaging over 2 changes a game due to injures, suspension and tinkering

We haven't played the same side back to back for at least 21 games!!!

Last season our success was built on stability but this one is built on a see saw it seems

With players coming back now we have to hope that it's no more tweaking and we play our best 11 whe possible as what else all the changes show is that our players have all had rests already
Click to expand...

Nicely researched BUT for anything to qualify for tweaking/tinkering it has to be non-enforced. How many of those changes were because of injury/suspension??

If we are finger pointing at Poch then we need to know the detail.
 
I cannot point a finger at a manager who has us in the hunt despite not having had his best side on the pitch ONCE this season and despite having at least TWO first-team starters out for every single match.

Against Chelski, it was Toby, Lamela, Rose. Their winner came from the left. We didn't have our left side out there.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Nicely researched BUT for anything to qualify for tweaking/tinkering it has to be non-enforced. How many of those changes were because of injury/suspension??

If we are finger pointing at Poch then we need to know the detail.
Click to expand...

Probably less than half but I'm not trying to criticise Poch. I'm trying to highlight the way we have had to change the side constantly
 
Between the first 4 games and last 4 games of the 2015/16 season, the starting XI essentially picked itself and collected 65 points.
  • That's 2.16 points per games
  • Form which would result in 82 Pts over a season.
  • The best league form we've seen over 30 games since possibly the 1960s
To put it simply, we need our core players back.

EDIT: I'll try check this further but it's not the best 30 game league run since 1980s, first 30 games of 1984/85 season collected 60 Pts before our title challenge collapsed.
 
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I made this point a couple of weeks ago, injuries, stupid suspensions and lost of form along with international breaks have disrupted the rhythm and confidence of the team. We need a steady period were we can field a settled side and build some momentum into the season.
 
Due to the high intensity of our 'successful' 'A' game we find ourselves maybe unable to have the depth and type of squad we required for such an attritious physical tactic?

Pochettino would be fine with a richer club as he could have a more suitable and experienced bench.

Its the problem as many of the threads on this other Spurs forums.

We are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I made this point a couple of weeks ago, injuries, stupid suspensions and lost of form along with international breaks have disrupted the rhythm and confidence of the team. We need a steady period were we can field a settled side and build some momentum into the season.
Click to expand...

Cant agree more. With all top sides you can pretty much predict 10 of the starting 11 every week.

Currently with us were changing at least 2 players a game which is an issue for playing consistency, if not results
 
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StephenH said:
Due to the high intensity of our 'successful' 'A' game we find ourselves maybe unable to have the depth and type of squad we required for such an attritious physical tactic?

Pochettino would be fine with a richer club as he could have a more suitable and experienced bench.

Its the problem as many of the threads on this other Spurs forums.

We are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear
Click to expand...

With a fully fit squad our bench currently would have a selection of:

Vorm - Ditch international keeper and a very good back up
Davies - Welsh starting full back and an experienced player at this level
Dier - Englands stand out holding midfielder and for me a better centre back than John Stones... but that isn't saying a lot
Wimmer - Austria centre back and as shown last year a very able deputy and starter
Trippier - A very solid cover for walker at league level and also the best crosser of the ball in the league (was why we sing him i think and that was his record at Burnley)
Son or Alli or Sissoko or erisken or Lamella (2 of these 5) - who are all experienced apart from Alli but are all full internationals for solid sides
Jansenn -Currently scoring 1 in 2 at international level but not an experienced player at club level
Any election of youngsters including Winks, Nkodou, Onomah who are all youth internationals

Thats potentially 10 players plus of course Vorm that would be the make up of our back ups

Honestly, that stands up against most if not all the teams in this league for squad depth. The rebels comes when you lose half your first team and in particular the genuine world class high end players, see Emirates Marketing Project of 2015 without Aguero and Company, or chelsea last season without Costa and hazard (I know they played but the werent their mindset wise). But Arsenal have shown that you can maintain a high level if you only lose the players that are "average by your squad standards" e.g. Ramsey an Wheelchair.
 
It is what it is.

Our squad cannot stay fit.

Our forward line is a joke! And that alone will cost us this season. Please dont compare our squad to Arsenal's because our forward line just doesn't.

I'm a big Levy fan and this is what we are and will be seeing for the 2-4 years.

Its not great but and I refer you to the first line of this post.

You sound like you been listening to that daft old son Harry?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Cant agree more. With all top sides you can retry much predict 10 of the starting 11 every week.

Currently with us were changing at least 2 players a game which is an issue for playing consistency, if not results
Click to expand...

Er, no. Ferguson and Guardiola both went over 100 games without picking the same starting XI in consecutive matches. I don't think they're the only ones. Squad rotation is a part of football now especially when playing in Europe.

We've had some bad luck with key players getting injured. That's for sure. Every team who loses one of their best players will suffer for it. But...last season was unique. I've never known a year where we had such a settled side that stayed fit. 8 different players played at least 33 league games, that's rare and unlikely to happen again any time soon so you can't complain every time it doesn't happen. Where we've been lucky this season is that, other than having to play Wimmer at LB on the weekend, we've not had an injury crisis in a certain position. If Janssen and Son had been injured when Kane was then we'd have been in big trouble.

No doubt, it's nice to have a settled squad, but don't think delude yourselves to think that we're in some way entitled to have one and that we can't be expected to perform if we don't. Liverpool rested the majority of their first team players against us in the cup and they played better than we've played in 90% of our games this season.
 
SUIYHA said:
Er, no. Ferguson and Guardiola both went over 100 games without picking the same starting XI in consecutive matches. I don't think they're the only ones. Squad rotation is a part of football now especially when playing in Europe.

We've had some bad luck with key players getting injured. That's for sure. Every team who loses one of their best players will suffer for it. But...last season was unique. I've never known a year where we had such a settled side that stayed fit. 8 different players played at least 33 league games, that's rare and unlikely to happen again any time soon so you can't complain every time it doesn't happen. Where we've been lucky this season is that, other than having to play Wimmer at LB on the weekend, we've not had an injury crisis in a certain position. If Janssen and Son had been injured when Kane was then we'd have been in big trouble.

No doubt, it's nice to have a settled squad, but don't think delude yourselves to think that we're in some way entitled to have one and that we can't be expected to perform if we don't. Liverpool rested the majority of their first team players against us in the cup and they played better than we've played in 90% of our games this season.
Click to expand...

Barca rarely changed their side from why I saw. Happy for you to provide evidence to the contrary

United hardly did either. They tweaked it every now and then with a tactical change like we did my season at Watford I agree, and of course they changed it when injuries and suspensions occurred but you could and both the first 11s of those clubs in advance

Stability is key across the board on and off the pitch and it shows. It's no coincidence that leicester hardly changed their team last season and were a model of consistency. Chelsea are the same at the moment
 
If you insist on comparing teams stick to the same league and same era. otherwise the variables go off the chart.

Leicester is an good example. With last season to this season. And ..........Chelsea and ...........Liverpool...........

Whats that elephant sitting over there doing....
 
SpurSF said:
That's what has been so fudging frustrating about this season. For huge chunks of the year last season, the starting XI picked itself:

-----------Lloris----------
Walker--Toby-Jan-Rose
---Dier----Dembele----
Eriksen--Lamela--Alli
----------Kane----------

In my 15+ years of supporting Spurs, that has got to be one of the best (if not THE best) starting XI's I've ever enjoyed, and it seems like we just haven't had that XI in a game since Alli punched Yacob back in April or whatever. I like Wanyama, Son, Wimmer, Winks, Onomah etc, but that is the XI that I want to get back to seeing week in and week out.

Also, it is insane that people keep slagging off Pochettino, considering the core of Toby, Hugo, Kane, and Dembele has only played 77 minutes together all season, while Klopp, Conte, and Wenger have basically had all or most of their core players at full fitness this year. We'll see how Klopp copes without Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino, and Sturridge over the Christmas period. Or how Arsenal look if Sanchez, Ozil, or Koscielny miss extended time. Same goes for Kante, Hazard, Cahill, and Costa.

Poch hasn't been perfect, but let's all take a deep breath and remember the miserable luck we've had since the end of last season.
Click to expand...

I agree, good post.

If we can play that first XI in as many league games as possible from now on, we can still do great things imo.

League (A) Team:

------------lloris
walker----toby----verts---rose
---------dier---dembele
--lamela----alli------eriksen
------------kane

Cup (B) Team:
-----------vorm
trippier---ccv----wimmer---davies
--------wanyama---winks
--sissoko-----son-----n'kodou
-----------janssen
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Barca rarely changed their side from why I saw. Happy for you to provide evidence to the contrary

United hardly did either. They tweaked it every now and then with a tactical change like we did my season at Watford I agree, and of course they changed it when injuries and suspensions occurred but you could and both the first 11s of those clubs in advance

Stability is key across the board on and off the pitch and it shows. It's no coincidence that leicester hardly changed their team last season and were a model of consistency. Chelsea are the same at the moment
Click to expand...

Ferguson - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/dec/29/alex-ferguson-manchester-united-squad-rotation

Guardiola - http://www.goal.com/en/news/13452/o...ate-tinkerman-guardiola-set-to-rotate-for-one

I'm not arguing that stability doesn't help. Of course it does. Just that it's exceptionally rare to not have any major injury problems over the season. This season should be considered more like the norm, not last.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I thought I would do some research as in my head we havent named the same side twice back to back since we drew with the racists last season.

To check I went to the Spurs site and looked for different players coming in

After Chelsea 2-2
Southampton - Dembele out and Mason in (LOSE)
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - Davies in for Rose (Lose)
Everton away - Wanyama in for a mason and Alli in for Son (Draw)
Palace - Vorm in for Hugo and Jansenn in for Alli (WIN)
liverpoo -Alli in for Jansenn (DRAW)
Stoke - Lloris back, Davies in Son in for Lamella (WIN)
Monaco (home) - Lamella in for Wanyama as Alli moves back (LOSE)
Sunderland - Dier moved to defence, Verts to left back, Wanyama, sissoko and Dembele all in (WIn)
boro - Davies back and Jansenn in too (WIN)
CSKA - Lamella back in for Demebele and Trippier for Walker (WIN)
Emirates Marketing Project - Walker back, Rose back, sissoko back (Win)
WBA - Jansenn back for son and Davies for Rose (DRAW)
Leverkusen away - Trippier in, Rose in, Dier in defence and Son in for sissoko (DRAW)
Bournemouth - Walker back and Dembele in for Jansenn (draw)
Leicester - Lamella out for Jansenn (Draw)
Bayer at Wembley- Davies in again and Sissoko for Jansenn (Lose)
Arse - Wimmer in, Kane in, sissoko and Alli out (DRAW)
spam - winks in and Jansenn too , Wimmer out along with son (win)
Monaco - trippier in, Wimmer in, Alli in, son in, Walker, Verts, Jansenn and erisken all out (LOSE)
racists - Walker back for Trippier, erisken back for winks (lose)

So we're averaging over 2 changes a game due to injures, suspension and tinkering

We haven't played the same side back to back for at least 21 games!!!

Last season our success was built on stability but this one is built on a see saw it seems

With players coming back now we have to hope that it's no more tweaking and we play our best 11 whe possible as what else all the changes show is that our players have all had rests already
Click to expand...

In our first 7 league games of this season we had w5 d2 l0. Thats 2.43 points per games.
If we maintained that form we would be top of the league right now.

During that time we were making changes every game.
It didn't make a bit of difference.

The only change that mattered was Alderweireld getting injured.
Since then its w1 d3 l1 in the league.
 
Modric THFC said:
In our first 7 league games of this season we had w5 d2 l0. Thats 2.43 points per games.
If we maintained that form we would be top of the league right now.

During that time we were making changes every game.
It didn't make a bit of difference.

The only change that mattered was Alderweireld getting injured.
Since then its w1 d3 l1 in the league.
Click to expand...

Factually correct
 
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