Another shooting in Murica

[NaijaSpurs]

Apparently he had his hands in the air but reached into the vehicle. I can't see anything on that video that refutes that.

In fact, the footage from the helicopter certainly looks like he's trying to open the car door when he's tasered.

So was he reaching through the window or was he opening the car door which was it? Also the officers in the helicopter expected him to be tasered so why not do that instead of hooting him dead?

 

[scaramanga]

So was he reaching through the window or was he opening the car door which was it? Also the officers in the helicopter expected him to be tasered so why not do that instead of hooting him dead?

I don't know, the video isn't clear enough to tell.

Neither is it even nearly clear enough to suggest any level of guilt in any of the officers without extreme bias.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I don't know, the video isn't clear enough to tell.

Neither is it even nearly clear enough to suggest any level of guilt in any of the officers without extreme bias.

I grant you one thing, you are consistent

 

[scaramanga]

I grant you one thing, you are consistent

My requirement for evidence before judgement is relentless.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

My requirement for evidence before judgement is relentless.

I get the impression that you would have agreed with the Rodney King verdict and set those cops free

 

[scaramanga]

I get the impression that you would have agreed with the Rodney King verdict and set those cops free

It's been a long while since I've seen that evidence, but from what I remember it was fairly clear cut (unlike the videos above).

Still, I wouldn't use the action of a tiny number of officers to prejudge the actions and intentions of the others - that would be a bit like judging a race of people because of the crimes of a few.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It's been a long while since I've seen that evidence, but from what I remember even i couldn't get away with saying that the video had been edited by left-wing elements in the American media to show those poor cuddly and adorable cops beating him instead of actually what i really believe, which was that they were using their batons to tickle him, and the video was just sped up to make it look real bad

FTFY

 

[scaramanga]

FTFY

I think you'll find they were kissing him with their boots.

 

[Rock Strongo]

 

[Baleforce]

how many german citizens carry guns?

I do wonder exactly how much of a risk people expect the police to take

 

[Kandi1977]

how many german citizens carry guns?

I do wonder exactly how much of a risk people expect the police to take

It's a long way from that to "shot first, ask later"

 

[monkeybarry]

how many german citizens carry guns?

I do wonder exactly how much of a risk people expect the police to take

More of anicdotal evidence that the issue is societal.

But it might be an idea for US police to change their policy to shoot to immobilise first rather than shoot to kill.

It's a bit chicken and egg - US attitudes towards guns are partly based around fear of overreach by the authorities and the police shoot to kill because they feel threatened by a minority of irresponsible gun owners.

But the Police have to make the first move to calm the situation as society can't.

 

[monkeybarry]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37460461

 

[braineclipse]

More of anicdotal evidence that the issue is societal.

But it might be an idea for US police to change their policy to shoot to immobilise first rather than shoot to kill.

It's a bit chicken and egg - US attitudes towards guns are partly based around fear of overreach by the authorities and the police shoot to kill because they feel threatened by a minority of irresponsible gun owners.

But the Police have to make the first move to calm the situation as society can't.

Ending the war on drugs would be the place to start.

 

[monkeybarry]

Ending the war on drugs would be the place to start.

It would be a good place to start - but not in isolation.
The shooting of two seemingly innocent Black men this past week has no obvious correlation.

I know Scara will disagree with the "innocent" position as it points blame at the police - but that becomes irrelevant as the social perception is murder.

And that is what needs to change, a social perception that the authorities are vigilanties and that killing people is the norm and acceptable. This morning four people shot by a sniper whilst shopping - you don't get a much more American activity than going to the Mall. In a society where you see people being shot dead regularly it is no surprise when a growing number of people think that is just how society works, especially in such an inward looking country as the US

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[braineclipse]

It would be a good place to start - but not in isolation.
The shooting of two seemingly innocent Black men this past week has no obvious correlation.

I know Scara will disagree with the "innocent" position as it points blame at the police - but that becomes irrelevant as the social perception is murder.

And that is what needs to change, a social perception that the authorities are vigilanties and that killing people is the norm and acceptable. This morning four people shot by a sniper whilst shopping - you don't get a much more American activity than going to the Mall. In a society where you see people being shot dead regularly it is no surprise when a growing number of people think that is just how society works, especially in such an inward looking country as the US

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Well, there's not much that works in isolation for big societal issues.

In my opinion ending the war on drugs is close to a necessary step if one wants to drastically reduce gun deaths, violence and crime in the US.

 

[scaramanga]

It would be a good place to start - but not in isolation.
The shooting of two seemingly innocent Black men this past week has no obvious correlation.

I know Scara will disagree with the "innocent" position as it points blame at the police - but that becomes irrelevant as the social perception is murder.

And that is what needs to change, a social perception that the authorities are vigilanties and that killing people is the norm and acceptable. This morning four people shot by a sniper whilst shopping - you don't get a much more American activity than going to the Mall. In a society where you see people being shot dead regularly it is no surprise when a growing number of people think that is just how society works, especially in such an inward looking country as the US

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I don't disagree with the innocent tag at all. In most of the cases in this thread, the person shot has been innocent of the crime of which they were initially suspected.

The problem is that, in order to keep themselves safe, the police have a set of procedures they require someone they believe may be armed to go through. When a suspect fails to follow those orders and does something the police have reason to belive may be reaching for or raising a weapon, then they are likely to get shot.

 

[monkeybarry]

I don't disagree with the innocent tag at all. In most of the cases in this thread, the person shot has been innocent of the crime of which they were initially suspected.

The problem is that, in order to keep themselves safe, the police have a set of procedures they require someone they believe may be armed to go through. When a suspect fails to follow those orders and does something the police have reason to belive may be reaching for or raising a weapon, then they are likely to get shot.

The second part of where the change is needed - often the police have a numerical advantage, so acting to disable should be possible....a shot to disable or mame if necessary combined with a Taser should allow disarmament and time to restrain.

But it will take bold police leadership to make that change and a political angle to not make it look "weak" ......

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[scaramanga]

The second part of where the change is needed - often the police have a numerical advantage, so acting to disable should be possible....a shot to disable or mame if necessary combined with a Taser should allow disarmament and time to restrain.

But it will take bold police leadership to make that change and a political angle to not make it look "weak" ......

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I don't think it's a political thing at all.

If you want an effective police force you have to protect them. With the level of gun ownership there is in the US, it's fairly reasonable for the police to assume a suspect is armed. If that suspect does as they're told (and there's no good reason for an innocent one not to) then they don't get shot.

I agree with @braineclipse, the start is to end the war on drugs. That in itself would rapidly and significantly reduce the number of people carrying weapons. If the police don't expect a suspect to be armed, then they can start behaving differently.

 

[monkeybarry]

I don't think it's a political thing at all.

If you want an effective police force you have to protect them. With the level of gun ownership there is in the US, it's fairly reasonable for the police to assume a suspect is armed. If that suspect does as they're told (and there's no good reason for an innocent one not to) then they don't get shot.

I agree with @braineclipse, the start is to end the war on drugs. That in itself would rapidly and significantly reduce the number of people carrying weapons. If the police don't expect a suspect to be armed, then they can start behaving differently.

But if you are a minority group that feels disproportionately targeted in a country that is scared of big government you are going to stay armed, to protect yourself from the overreach of the Police....a body whom you already distrust and who are part of a bigger system you distrust.

The police need to change their image and be seen again as law enforcement rather than dangerous

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