Ross Barkley

[JerusalemMan]

So no player has ever been sold for more than the value of their release clause? Even with more than one club after them?

I'm sure that's not the case. I'm fairly sure I remember a club doubling a release clause because I remember wondering why the hell anyone would do that.

I'd be very interested to hear the specific case there Scara as I really think you have the wrong end of the stick on this one.
A club offering double the amount specified in a release clause seems madness.
A club doubling the contractual amount that a prospective buyer must offer to trigger acceptance seems like sound sense.

 

[scaramanga]

I'd be very interested to hear the specific case there Scara as I really think you have the wrong end of the stick on this one.
A club offering double the amount specified in a release clause seems madness.
A club doubling the contractual amount that a prospective buyer must offer to trigger acceptance seems like sound sense.

I will try and find it - I'm sure it was one of the large spanish clubs.

Essentially my reading of their release clause was that the player had to be allowed to go if a club offered more than the clause value, but that the club was still allowed to hold out for the highest bidder. Now in that situation, both potential buyers could sit tight at the clause value and battle it out on wages, or one could simply beat the other in a standard bidding war.

 

[r-u-s-x]

All Spanish clubs have to have a mandatory release clause held by the Spanish FA (i.e. Neymar), if the player enacts this they can by pass the club entirely - so in the situation you describe this would only really come into play if the release clause was lower than the one held with the SFA.

 

[milo]

My understanding was the release clauses were unenforceable under English employment law

 

[Finney Is Back]

The two perform a very different function.

Everton pack deep behind the ball and Barkley is their go to man on a break - the one they look to release first. Lamela is usually facing a packed defence and the person we look to to do something unexpected in order to thread the ball through the defence.

Do they? I didnt really notice Everton playing that way last season or the season before.... certainly not in the majority of games anyway.

Also even if your staement was true then Lamela would be receiving the ball with more time and perhaps more/easier passing optuons due to the opposition all being goal side and simply protecting their penalty area, whereas Barkley would be receiving the ball on the run with less pasing options, all moving at pace instead of being more static. Funnily enough I felt that on many occassions when Lamela did seem to lose the ball for us, it was when we were on the break. Having good pass completion stats playing largely on the break would actually be a very good sign as this shows good control and execution.

 

[r-u-s-x]

My understanding was the release clauses were unenforceable under English employment law

I don't think so - there are lots of instances of a relegation clauses which are a type of release clause? This discussion started with Dembele's release clause at Fulham.

(*Suarez had an agreement and it was said at the time he needed the clause).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Do you know who else creates a lot of chances? The Stoke goalkeeper.

Not all chances are good ones or the right ones. As @Jordinho mentioned too - being the best Englishman is a long way from being a compliment.

Does he?... How many did he create last season?... maybe we should bring him in?

It is still a pretty decent compliment considering that there are still a reasonable number of English players in the league.... we even have a few ourselves in case you had forgot?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Which is why we got him on the cheap - nobody was sure if he could ever realise that potential and the price reflected it.

Dembele was only £15m despite his huge potential because the potential was an unkown. In the same way, £20-25m for Barkley is a good price. Any more is just taking too much risk.

15 million then is probably equivalent to about 30 to 40 million now. Transfer fees have exploded since we signed Dembele.

 

[Finney Is Back]

A release clause only props up the bottom sale price. The player will still be sold to the highest bidder, not the team that activates the clause first.

The top end of a price is what the market is willing to pay, and that was £15M. Had Dembele already realised his potential then that value would probably have been £30-40m

Eh???? The highest bidder will still pay the release clause. Why on earth would any club pay more than the required price???

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't think so - there are lots of instances of a relegation clauses which are a type of release clause? This discussion started with Dembele's release clause at Fulham.

(*Suarez had an agreement and it was said at the time he needed the clause).

Saurez's agreement was simply that he could talk to clubs who offered more than a specific amount, not that Liverpool had to accept the bid.

Alderweireld has a release clause at Spurs, but it only comes into effect in the last year of his contract. There is no way any club would pay more than an active release clause, unless they were not aware of it - which in this day and age the player's agent would never allow to happen.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I will try and find it - I'm sure it was one of the large spanish clubs.

Essentially my reading of their release clause was that the player had to be allowed to go if a club offered more than the clause value, but that the club was still allowed to hold out for the highest bidder. Now in that situation, both potential buyers could sit tight at the clause value and battle it out on wages, or one could simply beat the other in a standard bidding war.

That doesn't make sense?... That is no release clause at all. For how long could the club hold out for a better offer? and more importantly why would a club offer more instead of just meeting the release clause and adding any extra amount they might have been prepared to pay to the player's wages? You are an intelligent chap Scara, surely you realise that statement us ridiculous? Are you sure it was actually a 'release clause'????

 

[scaramanga]

Do they? I didnt really notice Everton playing that way last season or the season before.... certainly not in the majority of games anyway.

Also even if your staement was true then Lamela would be receiving the ball with more time and perhaps more/easier passing optuons due to the opposition all being goal side and simply protecting their penalty area, whereas Barkley would be receiving the ball on the run with less pasing options, all moving at pace instead of being more static. Funnily enough I felt that on many occassions when Lamela did seem to lose the ball for us, it was when we were on the break. Having good pass completion stats playing largely on the break would actually be a very good sign as this shows good control and execution.

Lamela is the player trying to make something happen in a congested part of the field, Barkley is playing the ball across a virtually open pitch.

He has fewer targets to aim at but in that situation all the time and space in the world.

That's partly shown by the average length of his chances and passes in general which are fairly long.

 

[scaramanga]

Does he?... How many did he create last season?... maybe we should bring him in?

It is still a pretty decent compliment considering that there are still a reasonable number of English players in the league.... we even have a few ourselves in case you had forgot?

I was being facetious. The point being, that anyone who lumps the ball at a striker from anywhere on the pitch can create a chance, especially when you're aiming at a striker who never passes and shoots from just about anywhere.

The figure was also a season total, rather than a per 90 measure which will always boost his stats as he's undroppable at a club like Everton.

How many English players do we have in regular chance-creating positions like Barkley? Just Alli. A player who has a combined 0.76 goals or assists per 90. Barkley, in comparison has 0.41. Whilst doing that, Alli managed more tackles too.

How many other English players are there at half-decent clubs who play at the front end of the midfield? I'm struggling to think of any regular starters.

 

[StephenH]

My understanding was the release clauses were unenforceable under English employment law

Correct!

It's a Spanish/Portuguese thing as far as I remember!

 

[Pirate55]

I was being facetious. The point being, that anyone who lumps the ball at a striker from anywhere on the pitch can create a chance, especially when you're aiming at a striker who never passes and shoots from just about anywhere.

The figure was also a season total, rather than a per 90 measure which will always boost his stats as he's undroppable at a club like Everton.

How many English players do we have in regular chance-creating positions like Barkley? Just Alli. A player who has a combined 0.76 goals or assists per 90. Barkley, in comparison has 0.41. Whilst doing that, Alli managed more tackles too.

How many other English players are there at half-decent clubs who play at the front end of the midfield? I'm struggling to think of any regular starters.

Exactly. The penny drops! There aren't many. That's why a player like Barkley is at a premium.

In any event, I see him more in Eriksen's role than Lamela's, who has more time and space, coming from a wide position.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Correct!

It's a Spanish/Portuguese thing as far as I remember!

It's mandatory for Spanish clubs and as I understand it voluntary for English, defoe had a relegation release clause

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...igning-from-Premier-League-rivals-Fulham.html

 

[Finney Is Back]

I was being facetious. The point being, that anyone who lumps the ball at a striker from anywhere on the pitch can create a chance, especially when you're aiming at a striker who never passes and shoots from just about anywhere.

The figure was also a season total, rather than a per 90 measure which will always boost his stats as he's undroppable at a club like Everton.

How many English players do we have in regular chance-creating positions like Barkley? Just Alli. A player who has a combined 0.76 goals or assists per 90. Barkley, in comparison has 0.41. Whilst doing that, Alli managed more tackles too.

How many other English players are there at half-decent clubs who play at the front end of the midfield? I'm struggling to think of any regular starters.

A striker who shoots from anywhere.... like Harry Kane you mean?

Perhaps Barkley gets less assists than Alli because Kane is a better finisher than Lukaku? Maybe Alli gets more goals than Barkley because 'Lukaku is a striker wo never passes'? Maybe Alli gets more goals than Barkley because Everton 'only sit deep and play on the break' and therefore an Everton midfield player doesnt get nearly as much opportunity to receive the ball in the box as Alli does in our game where we have a lot posession around the penalty area? Maybe Alli gets more voals and assists as we spend more time in possession and in the opposition half/penalty area than Everton. Maybe it is because we have more creative players than Everton?

0.41 goals or assists per game is stlll a good number. Especially as IMO Barkley plays a little deeper than Alli does. What were Sissoko and Onomah's numbers?... as I suspect Barkley would be taking their place in the match day 18 as opppsed to Alli's starting place.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Correct!

It's a Spanish/Portuguese thing as far as I remember!

They are enforceable, the difference is that it is mandatory to have one in Spain.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's mandatory for Spanish clubs and as I understand it voluntary for English, defoe had a relegation release clause

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...igning-from-Premier-League-rivals-Fulham.html

Indeed. As does Alderweireld at Spurs (not a relegation one)

 

[scaramanga]

Exactly. The penny drops! There aren't many. That's why a player like Barkley is at a premium.

In any event, I see him more in Eriksen's role than Lamela's, who has more time and space, coming from a wide position.

Erm. Being English isn't a beneficial thing.

He'll need to interchange with the other two if he's going to fit in here. He'll also have to get used to having a lot less time on the ball and much more packed defences to play against.