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The Goon Thread - Officially Second In A One Horse Race

I don't think who you support affects your opinion on the way another business is run

Neymar can be a bit hyperbolic at times but he does make a lot of good points, they are a well run club and Wenger knows his onions
 
galeforce said:
I don't think who you support affects your opinion on the way another business is run

Neymar can be a bit hyperbolic at times but he does make a lot of good points, they are a well run club and Wenger knows his onions
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Well run club? Yes
Wenger 'knows his onions'? Only in the same way that Mancini or Pellegrini do....they spend/spent the 1st/2nd highest amounts and finished in those positions whilst Wenger spends/spent the 3rd/4th highest amounts and finished in those positions...
 
No doubting Wenger was ahead of the curve when he came to English football, but now the game here has moved on he's no longer ahead and is on the same level as his peers, if not a rung lower
 
billyiddo said:
No doubting Wenger was ahead of the curve when he came to English football, but now the game here has moved on he's no longer ahead and is on the same level as his peers, if not a rung lower
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why is he below the curve?

the problem is you're all judging him by the wrong set of criteria. you're judging his management performances in the same way you would judge someone like mourinho. ie. purely on footballing results.

if you were to judge him on the criteria that the club sets him, you would realise that he is probably the best manager in the world atm. theres a reason why wenger doesnt get sacked and mourinho does. wenger manages to produce results (for one of thoughest owners out there), whilst mourinho often doesnt.
 
That is what im judging him on - does he do any better than getting Arsenal where they should be? No, not in my opinion - so that alone means he's been no better than a lot of managers over the last decade, Is there reason to believe he could have performed better? Yes, consistently finishing closer to the sides below him than the sides above, despite being far better off financially than those below, glaring holes in the squad/first team which are well within their capabilies to fix which remain unaddressed, terrible record in the CL, even by law of averages they should have fluked a good run to the semi's/final in the time frame we're talking about.
 
milo said:
How do you explain the change in Wenger from being a manager who was happy to be active in the transfer market to one who isn't?

I have been wondering whether it is just a case that he has failed to develop. When he came to England his training and fitness methods were ahead of the other clubs. He also had a knowledge of French and African football that other managers/clubs could not match in this country. What I was wondering was that as other clubs have developed international scouting operations, he has lost this advantage and failed to find others. Is it this that has lead to him becoming wary of entering the transfer market?
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Yes it is this - the rest have caught up with scouting knowledge (and coaching techniques). But there is something else going on. He is indecisive in the transfer market. Where Levy pounces and secures players if they seem right - Son, VDV, Ade (we didn't know) - I believe Wenger changes his mind, and doesn't go all out when he needs to. That is why they have not strengthened. They have the money, and if they showed true intent with a player they would have secured them. There are a host of players they could have easily bought who would have improved them - a DM and upfront as well as their back 4.
 
billyiddo said:
That is what im judging him on - does he do any better than getting Ar5ena1 where they should be? No, not in my opinion - so that alone means he's been no better than a lot of managers over the last decade, Is there reason to believe he could have performed better? Yes, consistently finishing closer to the sides below him than the sides above, despite being far better off financially than those below, glaring holes in the squad/first team which are well within their capabilies to fix which remain unaddressed, terrible record in the CL, even by law of averages they should have fluked a good run to the semi's/final in the time frame we're talking about.
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Despite my previous post, I would disagree that he is poor coach. He simply needs a DOF. That is all imo.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Despite my previous post, I would disagree that he is poor coach. He simply needs a DOF. That is all imo.
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I don't think he's a poor coach either, just that he's no longer at the level he was (beCause the English game has improved)
 
I would agree. However, I'd say his coaching ability is better than average. He's an elite coach. But a substandard Director of Football.
 
billyiddo said:
No doubting Wenger was ahead of the curve when he came to English football, but now the game here has moved on he's no longer ahead and is on the same level as his peers, if not a rung lower
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Agreed, they'd be wise to part ways with Wenger at the end of the season and look to bring in Ancelotti while he's still available. A manager of Ancelotti's ilk would make that club with it's current set-up a genuine threat again. Here's hoping they stick with Wenger.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I would agree. However, I'd say his coaching ability is better than average. He's an elite coach. But a substandard Director of Football.
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I don't think it's his ability to coach, but his philosophies that's the problem. Too concerned about proving points, not compromising on certain things.
 
billyiddo said:
That is what im judging him on - does he do any better than getting Ar5ena1 where they should be? No, not in my opinion
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yes but because he isnt deluded, and understands the game, hes acheiving these results whilst not wasting hundreds of millions.

ive mentioned it before, but someone likes rodgers (or 99% of other managers) would delude themselves into thinking they can get arsenal challenging by spending extra money every season. and waste money in a futile aim to finish higher than is realistically possible.

look at martin oneill at aston villa for an example of this.

billyiddo said:
- so that alone means he's been no better than a lot of managers over the last decade, Is there reason to believe he could have performed better? Yes, consistently finishing closer to the sides below him than the sides above, despite being far better off financially than those below, glaring holes in the squad/first team which are well within their capabilies to fix which remain unaddressed, terrible record in the CL, even by law of averages they should have fluked a good run to the semi's/final in the time frame we're talking about.
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hes consistently finished above teams with bigger spends than him imo. far more frequently than vice versa anyway. hes got arsenal to finish above all of manu, city and chelsea at some stage or another in recent years
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yes it is this - the rest have caught up with scouting knowledge (and coaching techniques). But there is something else going on. He is indecisive in the transfer market. Where Levy pounces and secures players if they seem right - Son, VDV, Ade (we didn't know) - I believe Wenger changes his mind, and doesn't go all out when he needs to. That is why they have not strengthened. They have the money, and if they showed true intent with a player they would have secured them. There are a host of players they could have easily bought who would have improved them - a DM and upfront as well as their back 4.
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They were saying on Football Weekly earlier in the month that the board had to force through the move for Ozil because Wenger kept dithering and got cold feet over the fee.
 
milo said:
They were saying on Football Weekly earlier in the month that the board had to force through the move for Ozil because Wenger kept dithering and got cold feet over the fee.
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They only signed Welbeck on deadline day after Wenger had left the country.
 
Neymar said:
hes consistently finished above teams with bigger spends than him imo. far more frequently than vice versa anyway. hes got Ar5ena1 to finish above all of manu, city and Chel53a at some stage or another in recent years
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...when they underperformed... same as with us when we finished above Chelsea/United - he's not once challenged for the title since the league stepped in to modern era, that would have been over acheiving and the sign of a top tier manager for the position he and Arsenal have been in the last decade or so
 
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