Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[glasgowspur]

Harr1984, not sure how you can question that bit of my post, read the ade thread around the start of the season and Soldado thread prior to yesterday and it a love hate thing. you touch yourself and take your choice.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[thfcsteff]

Guess the key question is why did it take him so long to come up with

- No Kaboul, Capoue, Ade
- Two players who play the ball in the middle
- Lennon providing with
- Soldado/Kane up front
- Less suicidal FB play

Seemed obvious to everyone else, to be fair to him, more than one manager had lucked into his right team selection via no other options (injury/suspension/etc.)

Two previous managers have been embroiled in player politics,and it is fair to say that due to a combo of their specific 'man-management' styles, each time the seniors were supported somewhat by the club. I think this time, Poch has come join, given everyone a very very fair shake and circumstances have shown the entire club, from chairman to tea ladies, who's for real and who's just picking up their wages. I think Poch has persevered in many different ways, and has leant on seniors to try and steady the ship early season only to find they might not actually have his back when they don't like something he does. He has thankfully found support. I believe, in medical terms, this would be 'isolating the cause of the symptoms' and we are in the middle of treating the cause as opposed to the symptoms. No longer do we appear engaged in offering 'relief', I think we are finally serious about letting a manager get it out and start with a fresh system free of 'causes'...thus he has finally been able to do this because he now has EVERYONE (bar a few!) onside. From the top of the club to the bottom. I am beginning to admire this manager so much...he plays the long game, he's tough and he's earnest.

 

[Raziel]

Two previous managers have been embroiled in player politics,and it is fair to say that due to a combo of their specific 'man-management' styles, each time the seniors were supported somewhat by the club. I think this time, Poch has come join, given everyone a very very fair shake and circumstances have shown the entire club, from chairman to tea ladies, who's for real and who's just picking up their wages. I think Poch has persevered in many different ways, and has leant on seniors to try and steady the ship early season only to find they might not actually have his back when they don't like something he does. He has thankfully found support. I believe, in medical terms, this would be 'isolating the cause of the symptoms' and we are in the middle of treating the cause as opposed to the symptoms. No longer do we appear engaged in offering 'relief', I think we are finally serious about letting a manager get it out and start with a fresh system free of 'causes'...thus he has finally been able to do this because he now has EVERYONE (bar a few!) onside. From the top of the club to the bottom. I am beginning to admire this manager so much...he plays the long game, he's tough and he's earnest.

Fair play, if the result pick up from here, and we get rid of at least 2 of Ade/Capoue/Kaboul in January, he will look like a genius.

I think to your point, he can now pick the side that played Sunday for the next few weeks and no one will really question the selection.

 

[billyiddo]

Fair play, if the result pick up from here, and we get rid of at least 2 of Ade/Capoue/Kaboul in January, he will look like a genius.

I think to your point, he can now pick the side that played Sunday for the next few weeks and no one will really question the selection.

With the amount of games we have over the next 5 weeks (10 iirc) i wouldn't pin your hopes on seeing the same XI game to game.

As someone else mentioned, either in this thread or another, what will work against Everton may not work against Palace/Burnley etc so i can easily see things changed for those games/plus for fitness reasons as per my point above.

 

[thfcsteff]

With the amount of games we have over the next 5 weeks (10 iirc) i wouldn't pin your hopes on seeing the same XI game to game.

As someone else mentioned, either in this thread or another, what will work against Everton may not work against Palace/Burnley etc so i can easily see things changed for those games/plus for fitness reasons as per my point above.

Bentley's fitness would be the one thing which I would see being an issue Wed. Otherwise this is exactly the sort of game to play the same side as Sunday IMO...I think we will get at least a point, have a feeling it will be three. It's in me waters Billy!

 

[billyiddo]

If everyones fit then id play the same side at Chelsea Steff, agreed - would expect a different line up v Palace though.

 

[sc25]

Apart from vlad at RB and mason who to be honest I hadn't really seen this is the team I had hoped Poch would start the season with. Why didn't he? I think there is two possibilities, 1 to buy some time with the fans. Kaboul and ade have a good following whereas verts and Soldado where being roundly pilloried. Only last week it was a pretty even split on here if they two should be sold or kept. 2 he was taking his time and assessing everyone and how they would fit into a system or what tweeks the system would need for the players to fit it.
there is a bit of me that thinks he's been very clever here. Imagine if Soldado had started the season and went 5/6 games without scoring with ade sat on the bench. It would have been melt down. So he throws ade in, if it works great, if it doesn't Soldado comes in and we are a little more patient because we know Ade isn't working out. The fact that Ade MAY now have burned his boats is an added bonus. Read the Ade thread around the start of the season and Soldado thread prior to yesterday and it a love hate thing. you touch yourself and take your choice.

1. I would hope Poch doesn't care too much about 'buying time with fans' or factors their opinion much in his team formation and selections. I would very much doubt he listens to me, and nor should he (tho if he ever asked me, I'd tell him . As has been said, his knowledge and scope is way more than just 90 mins on a Saturday.
2. Kaboul, after an injury, is straight back in squad and was on subs bench yesterday. (Evidence of hyperbole and/or that Poch doesn't much care what 'fans' think despite some saying he should never wear the shirt again?).
3. I've said this before but don't really see its a 'bonus' to our club if any players have (allegedly) 'burnt bridges'. If Poch is clever, as you say, then he won't want to be fettered or need his hand being forced to make the right decisions. Its better if everyone is available and on same page in a deep squad especially with busy holiday schedule upcoming. Is Soldado (of whom I'm a fan) capable of playing 2/3 full games a week over the holiday?
4. Keep in mind that Ade and Soldado threads are not necessarily representative of all fans. Rather than vocal 'love hate' extremes, or any agendas of various motivating factors, some may take a more moderate and objective view (of both players), and indeed may not even post in those threads.

 

[wiziwig]

Two previous managers have been embroiled in player politics,and it is fair to say that due to a combo of their specific 'man-management' styles, each time the seniors were supported somewhat by the club. I think this time, Poch has come join, given everyone a very very fair shake and circumstances have shown the entire club, from chairman to tea ladies, who's for real and who's just picking up their wages. I think Poch has persevered in many different ways, and has leant on seniors to try and steady the ship early season only to find they might not actually have his back when they don't like something he does. He has thankfully found support. I believe, in medical terms, this would be 'isolating the cause of the symptoms' and we are in the middle of treating the cause as opposed to the symptoms. No longer do we appear engaged in offering 'relief', I think we are finally serious about letting a manager get it out and start with a fresh system free of 'causes'...thus he has finally been able to do this because he now has EVERYONE (bar a few!) onside. From the top of the club to the bottom. I am beginning to admire this manager so much...he plays the long game, he's tough and he's earnest.

I think Poch has played this well , his very own, night of the long knives.

 

[Baleforce]

he certainly have them enough rope

 

[milo]

Apart from vlad at RB and mason who to be honest I hadn't really seen this is the team I had hoped Poch would start the season with. Why didn't he? I think there is two possibilities, 1 to buy some time with the fans. Kaboul and ade have a good following whereas verts and Soldado where being roundly pilloried. Only last week it was a pretty even split on here if they two should be sold or kept. 2 he was taking his time and assessing everyone and how they would fit into a system or what tweeks the system would need for the players to fit it.
there is a bit of me that thinks he's been very clever here. Imagine if Soldado had started the season and went 5/6 games without scoring with ade sat on the bench. It would have been melt down. So he throws ade in, if it works great, if it doesn't Soldado comes in and we are a little more patient because we know Ade isn't working out. The fact that Ade MAY now have burned his boats is an added bonus.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

I think that it is just a combination of some players picking up knocks and rewarding others for strong performances in Europe or off the bench

 

[Bullet]

I don't think it signals a change in approach from Pochettino.

Oh gawd, don't depress me. We've been dull as dishwater for weeks, no penetration, no urgency, sideways back sideways back sideways going nowhere boring... after half an hour against Hull we had Serious Relegation Fears... then after half an hour yesterday we had Serious Champions League Aspirations.

 

[braineclipse]

Oh gawd, don't depress me. We've been dull as dishwater for weeks, no penetration, no urgency, sideways back sideways back sideways going nowhere boring... after half an hour against Hull we had Serious Relegation Fears... then after half an hour yesterday we had Serious Champions League Aspirations.

Obviously I'm not saying the preferred approach is "no penetration, no urgency, sideways back sideways back sideways going nowhere boring". It hasn't been Poch's approach at Southampton or Spurs.

To the extent your description is accurate it's been more due to a lack of quality (and form) than a choice of style. Including Bentaleb alongside Dembele alongside Mason can change that considerably also against teams like Hull that play very different to Everton.

 

[harr1984]

Harr1984, not sure how you can question that bit of my post, read the ade thread around the start of the season and Soldado thread prior to yesterday and it a love hate thing. you touch yourself and take your choice.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

I know what people write on these forums regarding Ade and he has never to my knowledge been a particular popular player, he's one that divides opinion and Soldado has never been criticised to a severe extent, many have been extremely supportive considering his lack of goals.

Regardless, your theory that Poch was just selecting Ade and Kaboul because they was popular with the fans (something that Poch wouldn't really gague at games with those two) is a non starter....


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[thfcsteff]

I think Poch has played this well , his very own, night of the long knives.

It's been incredible from what I can gather, so swift and vicious a negative spin which he has absolutely responded to with balls of steel and tight-lips. Seriously, I am more behind the bloke than ever right now.

 

[glasgowspur]

I never said that kaboul and Ade were picked purely to buy time, just maybe that pushed them to the front.
Recent quotes about Soldado have been as bad as "take him out the back and shoot him" you can argue with my conclusions, and they are only possibilities thrown out there for discussion, but I can't understand how what I've used to build those theories can be argued with!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Bullet]

The Trunk

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[Gutter Boy]

I guess the only issue now is what happens if an injury crisis hits before we can offload the 3 sidelined players in January.

With Mason, Bentaleb, Stambouli, Paulinho and Dembele, there's no danger that Capoue will be needed again. Similarly with Fazio, Verts, Dier and Chiriches (and Naughton back next match), we won't need Kaboul again. I'm more thinking if something happens to Soldado and/or Kane over the next 6 weeks. Would we recall Coulthirst, or use Chadli or Lamela as a CF, rather than calling on Ade again?

Also, is there a lingering malcontent around the training ground? Have the 3 (like BAE) just been told not to come in? Or are they still around, potentially causing issues?

 

[unit kaboom]

It's been incredible from what I can gather, so swift and vicious a negative spin which he has absolutely responded to with balls of steel and tight-lips. Seriously, I am more behind the bloke than ever right now.

Would you mind filling me in on what you have gathered. I've seen a few twitter rumours and the odd press piece but have no clear idea of whats actually gone on really.

 

[Daisuk]

Would you mind filling me in on what you have gathered. I've seen a few twitter rumours and the odd press piece but have no clear idea of whats actually gone on really.

A few of the ITK people have reported a bust-up of sorts (involving Adebayor, Kaboul and Capoue against Kane and the rest of the squad, more or less).

From the ITK-thread;

Trix:

I heard about this last week but was asked not to post about it due to the sensitive nature and possible media frenzy it could cause. The OP of that thread was certainly along the right lines(although facts were a touch off/exaggerated).The first update however was bang on the money. Lennon has said he won't leave, but it's not the same type of won't leave as Ade. Both saying they are not going anywhere, Ade because he doesn't care, Lennon because he does. The ruck between Ade and Kane 100% happened and was the reason Ade, Capoue and Kaboul were left out on Sunday. Of course you are very much entitled to believe whatever ITK/Rumour floats your boat, but I can safely say two things re this info.

Firstly from what I have heard both the second and third ITK posts in that thread are very very close to the mark, and the OP was certainly far more fact than fiction.

Secondly if JJ hasn't heard it, it's because he hasn't heard it. 100% happened.

 

[Jordinho]

There have been several incidents with Ade recently and Levy simply won't have it any longer.