Fans last night

[Finney Is Back]

id be quite into an 1882 like section where I can sit with other like minded curmudgeons and whinge about misplaced passes and bad defending

That is called the West Stand dear boy!

 

[Jordinho]

I have been - last ITV4 Cup match I went to was Maribor.

They were on the shelf and I was in the Park Lane - could hear them a bit from where I was.

I've got no issue with what they do at the match, I quite enjoy it. It's the organising of a singing area I don't like.

It's like an adult putting their own name on their Spurs kit.

If it was the club that told us "if you want to sing, you have to be in blocks X and Y" I'd see the issue, but it's a group of likeminded people that want to sit together. How else can achieve that than how they're currently doing it? You have to purchase a specified seat, so it's kind of necessary to know which block to go for.

 

[Baleforce]

That is called the West Stand dear boy!

tried that, the seats are too comfy

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

1882 obviously cant do prem games because there are not enough available seats together, plus the age group they belong to generally cant afford £50 to attend matches. Hence, the reason they usually stick to Cup or youth matches. Some fans may not like what they do but if you have ever seen an interview with any of the youth players after 1882 have been in attendance, you will know the players love it & are extremely grateful for the support.

1882 used to be given block J in the east upper but, due to helth & safety reasons (ie, standing) that has been stopped so block 35 in the south lower is where the club prefer them to be. Again, this causes a few issues as the club are not always aware of what allocation the away team will take so thats why 1882 are in block 34 for Brighton.

Waiting to hear offiicially on Partizan.

 

[markysimmo]

so thats why 1882 are in block 34 for Brighton.

Looking forward to Wednesday

 

[Kenyan Spur]

I think 1882 is a fantastic innovation, probably the best thing to happen to the club since the emergence of Bale as a superstar. Without them last night it's likely our support would have been really quiet and quite likely IMHO that we wouldn't have witnessed the amazing game us lucky TV watchers were witness to.

I've long given up going to the Lane because of the non-singing, moany attitude of so many of our supporters, and thought I wouldn't go again until we got (if we get while I'm still alive?) our new stadium.

But now, despite my advanced years, I may well go to an 1882 game, to remind me of the good ole terrace days. Just hope thhe knees are up to all standing and jumping around.

Viva 1882, a marvellous movement and a shining light in what is something of a dark period for our club.

Well said sir. As an overseas supporter, the TV is my only avenue to watch our games.
AND, it makes a BIG difference when you hear the crowd singing.
I hope the 1882 group keeps growing.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

one last point- i think the 'artificial' argument is a bit flawed.

I go to rock concerts and there's different types of fans at rock concerts. There are the ones who mosh, and jump around, the ones who want to stand relatively still and take it in and those who spend most of the time at the bar. I'm not going to criticise the other fans, but i want to jump around and mosh etc.

So at the rock concert i go right to the middle of the front and jump around and get a bit crushed. The guys who don't want to go in the mosh pit stand a bit further back or to the sides, and the guys who want to go to the bar ...go to the bar.

My point is- we all want to enjoy ourselves in different ways so we all go the areas that allow us to enjoy ourselves in that way. It is far from artificial.

Now, i've gone to concerts before where all we could get were seating tickets, i looked down at the mosh pit area with envy- i want to be down there joining in with the mosh. In the seating area i do not mosh and jump around because the other fans have not given me implicit permission to do so. I do not want to negatively impact their evening out because i have no right to and because, like me, they have paid decent money to attend.

So when i go to whl i have that same feeling of envy looking down at the park lane as i do looking down at a mosh pit. Just because i'm not singing doesn't mean i don't want to. It means i have respect for the fans sitting around me. In a perfect world i could push my way through the crowd to the park lane and everybody would find their place. It doesn't work like that though, we have designated seats in designated blocks in designated stands and tickets in the park lane are the first to sell out.

It's not artificial, it's perfectly natural. The really depressing thing is that i've found my mosh pit. It's called the bricklayers. It's tiny and it's packed and the atmosphere is awesome and i can stand up and drink beer and everyone around me is giving me that implicit permission to act like i want to because they're all doing the same thing as me. I would love to go to more games and find a good atmosphere, but from experience i am more likely to see spurs fans turn on each other.

Just because:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v74axcqotvg

great, appropriate post.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

I think a lot of it has to do with the football that is put out on show, under avb we were awful playing the ugliest football in this clubs history and I saw us get relegated. Now we are back to playing that thing called football again so the fans make some noise again.

I shall be at the lane next Wednesday for only my second game of the season, I am in the West stand where I shall applaud them onto the pitch and then when we score. I have a horrible feeling we will lose the match as it is against Brighton who I have two friends as season ticket holders and know people working behind the scenes including someone who is part of the coaching staff there now, so I shall be ribbed endlessly if we lose.

Combine that with the fact that it is my 50th birthday that day and the only previous time I saw spurs win on my birthday was in 90/91 when gazza scored a hatrick against Derby, every other time I have watched us on the 29th of October we have lost, you have been warned.

Don't go to the game. This is a must win game.
. I suggest a short trip to Tunsia !!!!. You know the place

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Oh, well, in that case, as soon as two or more people sing the same words to the same tune, it's "artificial". So we shouldn't do it, right? Selling tickets in advance for specific seats in the stadium is "artificial". Having police and stewards to manage crowd control and safety is "artificial". Organising for a referee, linesmen and fourth official to be present is "artificial". Having a competitive league or cup format is "artificial". Hell, even having rules of the game is artificial......

Honestly, have you any idea how ridiculous your argument sounds?

This. :lol: \o/ :-"

 

[Mr_B]

its the end of football as I know it from when I grew up if the club has to prompt you to sing or create an area etc, maybe artificial is the wrong word, its not "natural" shall we say

 

[Yossarian]

This is the kind of obstinate, blinkered and past its sell by attitude that will ensure that the now dreadful (or nigh on nonexistent) atmosphere at the Lane remains so. Or deteriorates further.

There are many reasons for the decline in atmosphere at WHL (and in English football generally) but by far the most important is that those who wish to sing are too thinly spread around the ground to be able to generate any kind of sustained noise. Even in the Park Lane.

1882 allows those people to gather together.

All around the world, the most vocal fans are organised. Only in England do you hear opinions like yours - referring to such organisation in a pejorative or mocking tone. Is it any wonder, then, that the atmosphere in Premier League stadiums is now probably the worst of any major league in the world?

Don't talk about the past and how English fans never needed to be organised back in the day. We aren't living in the past. We don't have huge standing terraces where young lads can get in for the price of a Mars Bar and stand wherever they want, among like minded souls . We have all seater stadia. We have stupidly expensive tickets. We have an ageing fan base. So we absolutely need to be organised now. The notion of just keeping the status quo and that ought to be bloody well good enough is as outdated now as 1950's football tactics would be in the modern game. Just as England was long ago surpassed by much of the rest of the world on the pitch, so too we've been surpassed by most of the rest of the world off the pitch. And just as we needed (and still need) to change our game to catch up on the pitch, so too we need to change our old ideas about support.

If organisation is good enough for the rest of the world - and if they are consistently creating far better atmospheres than we do (and they are) - then organisation is good enough for us too.

Outstanding. =D>

 

[jimmyb]

its the end of football as I know it from when I grew up if the club has to prompt you to sing or create an area etc, maybe artificial is the wrong word, its not "natural" shall we say

Well, yes..........that's kind of the point.

Football is very different now. The demographic of the crowd at White Hart Lane is very different.

The conditions no longer exist that once allowed like minded fans to gather freely together to sing and jump around. There are no more standing terraces. There are only designated seats. Furthermore, tickets are both expensive and hard to come by, meaning that the kind of people (essentially lads in their late teens to early 30's) who always created the atmosphere in the past, generally can't now get hold of, or can't afford, tickets. Those that can are spread too thinly around the ground to have any effect on the atmosphere.

So a new solution is required to counter the new challenge of generating a great atmosphere in an all seater stadium that is mostly populated by middle aged or older season ticket holders with little desire to sing. It's no different, in principle, from football coaches developing new attacking tactics to counter the challenges of new defensive tactics. Merely hoping or expecting that the atmosphere will get better? Not an option. It won't. As Einstein said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Something has to be done. And that something isn't artificial or unnatural in the slightest. It's hardly anything at all, in fact. As Finney pointed out, it's the equivalent of lads, back in the day, agreeing to meet in a certain section of a standing terrace. All 1882 does is get the club's permission to announce that anyone who wants to sing with a bunch of like minded fans should buy tickets for a specific block in the Park Lane. That's all.

Outstanding. =D>

Why, thank you, kind sir!

It's just a shame that, with hindsight, I seem pretty much to have repeated the same arguments in this post!

 

[scaramanga]

its the end of football as I know it from when I grew up if the club has to prompt you to sing or create an area etc, maybe artificial is the wrong word, its not "natural" shall we say

You're right, artificial is the wrong word - maybe manufactured is better.

 

[Icelander]

I don't really get this thread. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but my understanding of this whole thing after reading through, is it's a matter of pride?

This idea of a "natural", "unmanufactured", "unplastic" support is outdated. Football crowds today simply aren't the same as they were back in the day. You've got your businessmen, your tourists etc., that aren't there for the passion of the game. They're not going to be singing along, without somebody leading the way.

I'll even go as far as applaud the scum for handing out papers with songs for the crowd to sing. They know their atmosphere is terrible and are actively trying to change it. Why shouldn't we do the same? And if our solution is a simple rearrangement of seats to allow a group of people who want to improve the atmosphere at The Lane to sit together, well then that's the least the club can do IMO.

The fact is, nature isn't goint to make the Lane rocking again. The crowd has changed. The culture has changed. All it takes is for someone to try something different, and change it back. I think 1882 is the simplest, easiest, most logical answer to that. Who knows, in a few years maybe singing and cheering on will have become the norm, and the constant moaning, ****ging and booing will be as frowned upon as the singing appears to be in some sections of the stadium today?

 

[Shelfie]

Well said sir. As an overseas supporter, the TV is my only avenue to watch our games.
AND, it makes a BIG difference when you hear the crowd singing.
I hope the 1882 group keeps growing.

Thank you for the kind words, to me 1882 are a wonderful group of fans, and I'm so proud of them.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

I don't really get this thread. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but my understanding of this whole thing after reading through, is it's a matter of pride?

This idea of a "natural", "unmanufactured", "unplastic" support is outdated. Football crowds today simply aren't the same as they were back in the day. You've got your businessmen, your tourists etc., that aren't there for the passion of the game. They're not going to be singing along, without somebody leading the way.

I'll even go as far as applaud the scum for handing out papers with songs for the crowd to sing. They know their atmosphere is terrible and are actively trying to change it. Why shouldn't we do the same? And if our solution is a simple rearrangement of seats to allow a group of people who want to improve the atmosphere at The Lane to sit together, well then that's the least the club can do IMO.

The fact is, nature isn't goint to make the Lane rocking again. The crowd has changed. The culture has changed. All it takes is for someone to try something different, and change it back. I think 1882 is the simplest, easiest, most logical answer to that. Who knows, in a few years maybe singing and cheering on will have become the norm, and the constant moaning, ****ging and booing will be as frowned upon as the singing appears to be in some sections of the stadium today?

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

Take a look at the videos on the TFC website - the ones from Underhill when we took 1k to a mid-week U21 game vs Woolwich for example are superb.

 

[Jordinho]

You're right, artificial is the wrong word - maybe manufactured is better.

Which would be true if it was the club's initiative to improve atmosphere.

As it is, it's a group of fans that want to be seated together.

 

[scaramanga]

Which would be true if it was the club's initiative to improve atmosphere.

As it is, it's a group of fans that want to be seated together.

.... With the intention to all sing together.
As much as I'd like the Lane to be as loud as it used to be, the overall volume isn't the be all and end all.

One Direction sell more than Leonard Cohen, the final figure doesn't make them better, just richer.

 

[Jordinho]

.... With the intention to all sing together.
As much as I'd like the Lane to be as loud as it used to be, the overall volume isn't the be all and end all.

One Direction sell more than Leonard Cohen, the final figure doesn't make them better, just richer.

I really don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[scaramanga]

I really don't see what's wrong with that.

For me, part of a large crowd singing is the guy with the guts to start on his own. And the next one and the one after him having the guts to join in when nobody else has.

Having a glee club negates that.