Roberto Soldado

[billyiddo]

Soldado and Kane have no relevant form to judge them on AFAIC - (both have the same amount of goals anyway) a couple of cup appearances in a rotated side against poor opposition is a different prospect to league football among better players and against better players. what happened in the first half of last season under a different manager and then later on in odd appearances here and there under another different manager does not really concern me. what concerns me is what type of player he has shown to be throughout his career and that type of player is what i think this team needs at the minute.

 

[sc25]

It's his first time working with all these players and their first time playing for him and with his tactics - a player not playing well last season under different circumstances probably doesn't come in to it.

It sure does. Its a big reason why Sandro, Sig, Livermore, Dawson, etc, are no longer with us, and why Holtby went out on loan. Players performances last season are very much a factor. When he was at Soton, he would have seen Soldo play for us, (and prolly saw him in Spain, too), and in game films, scouting missions, scouting networks, etc. Poch has seen a lot more of Soldo that some would like to think. When he decided to quit Soton and took a look at our squad and came here, he likely already had an idea of what players he liked and which ones would suit his system. Poch didn't come in here 'cold' and he prolly did a lot of homework and preparation over the summer. Thats what managers do and how they earn their keep.

 

[billyiddo]

Its a big reason why Sandro, Sig, Livermore, Dawson, etc, are no longer with us, and why Holtby went out on loan

i think those decisions would have been made primarily on things other than their form from last season

When he was at Soton, he would have seen Soldo play for us, (and prolly saw him in Spain, too), and in game films, scouting missions, etc. Poch has seen a lot more of Soldo that some would like to think. Poch didn't come in here 'cold' and he prolly did a lot of homework over the summer.

exactly, last season would be a small part of a bigger picture

 

[sc25]

i think those decisions would have been made primarily on things other than their form from last season.

What other 'things' are you talking about it? Are you saying, for example, that if Sig had played great for us last season and started every game he still wouldn't be here, or at least would have had a better chance of still being here? What if Sandro had been player of the year for us last season...he wouldn't be here?

You can still evaluate players and make decisions no matter what manager or team or system they are playing for. This is done all the time. Thats how you buy players isn't it?

 

[billyiddo]

Sandro - injury problems and whether he had overcome then, what type of player he was and whether he'd fit the managers style. several seasons data to look back on

Sigurdsson - wealth of players in his position, active transfer interest from several clubs, what type of player he was, 2 seasons of data to look back on

Livermore - wasn't he already sold? if not see above

Dawson - aging, deteriorating form over a few seasons, last chance to cash in, does he fit the managers system?

Holtby - too much competition for places, someone has to lose out

 

[LCLC]

Still can't believe that fans still think this guy is deserving of a spot in our team. Ade has been poor so far this year but is so clearly better than bob, it's untrue.

The thing that really gets me is that other than Southampton at home last year he has shown no running or fight, yet Ade gets labelled as lazy? Has always missed chances (even in Spain) and is unsuited to us and the prem.

Very very strange the support he gets whilst other players get ridiculed. Give Kane a start and ship him out for a loss and move on.

 

[billyiddo]

Very very strange the support he gets whilst other players get ridiculed

are you oblivious to the fact that Soldado seemingly is at the top of a lot of peoples 'get rid' list? this whole thread (and lately the Adebayor one) is a too and throw between two sets of supporters who back one over the other. he's getting no more 'support' than he's being 'written off'

 

[Spursalot]

are you oblivious to the fact that Soldado seemingly is at the top of a lot of peoples 'get rid' list? this whole thread (and lately the Adebayor one) is a too and throw between two sets of supporters who back one over the other. he's getting no more 'support' than he's being 'written off'

He is at the top of some people's list. The major difference I see is that the adebayor criticisms are on a personal level, Whereas the soldado critisisms have been about his footballing ability.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He is at the top of some people's list. The major difference I see is that the adebayor criticisms are on a personal level, Whereas the soldado critisisms have been about his footballing ability.

No more personal than this thread is. I couldn't care less that Adebayor is a chemically imbalanced off the pitch, as long as he delivers on it. But mentally, something isn't quite right with him. No one doubts his ability, just his desire and application.

 

[billyiddo]

He is at the top of some people's list. The major difference I see is that the adebayor criticisms are on a personal level, Whereas the soldado critisisms have been about his footballing ability.

whilst you can definitely say that some of the Adebayor criticism is personal, the fact you yourself has said he should be dropped for Kane should tell you his performances are also fair game for posters wanting Soldado rotated in.

 

[Spursalot]

whilst you can definitely say that some of the Adebayor criticism is personal, the fact you yourself has said he should be dropped for Kane should tell you his performances are also fair game for posters wanting Soldado rotated in.

His performances should be fair game, and if they stuck to the football I think I'd be less bothered by the whole thing.

 

[billyiddo]

His performances should be fair game, and if they stuck to the football I think I'd be less bothered by the whole thing.

well i can't speak for others - but it's totally a footballing matter for myself.

 

[sc25]

Sandro - several seasons data to look back on

Sigurdsson - 2 seasons of data to look back on.

Exactly! So, how a player played, even in 'different circumstances' last season, most certainly does come in to it. I believe earlier, in Soldo's case anyway, you said it doesn't?

If you flip it around, if Soldo had started every game last season and bagged 30-40 goals for us, you don't think that would be a factor now with Poch? Because last season doesn't come in to it?

We chose to buy Davies this summer due in large part to his performances 'in different circumstances', did we not? Most every player you buy was playing in different circumstances.

We played in the PL last season (and we finished 6th). We weren't in outer mongolia. We are playing in same league this year basically vs. same teams/opponents. And, so is Poch. So performances last season are a very useful metric and very much taken on board.

 

[billyiddo]

my initial statement may have been more final than what i meant - yes last seasons form will be considered - you use everything available to you, it's just players won't be written off on the back of it - form is temporary class is permanent and all that. and in the bigger picture, last seasons form will be a small factor.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I have some sympathy for Soldado this season, he has only played in the midweek team and is never going to get a decent pass from Paulhino, Lennon or Townsend, that said I don't think he will ever be a success in this league and we should try a cut our loses. I would rather we took a chance on a young quick forward than waste our time trying to sign a 'name'. I couldn't name one but I'm not paid to find him and there are allegedly top people at our club who should be able to!

 

[Kingdawson]

are you oblivious to the fact that Soldado seemingly is at the top of a lot of peoples 'get rid' list? this whole thread (and lately the Adebayor one) is a too and throw between two sets of supporters who back one over the other. he's getting no more 'support' than he's being 'written off'

This is plain and simply not true.

For one the "two sets of supporters" you're referring too is 2 people vs everyone else but the main point..

At the start of the season on the thread dedicated to people choosing their preferred first X1.....around 8 out of 10 people chose Soldado as the striker DESPITE him scoring 2 opn play goals the whole season and despite Ade banging goals galore the 2nd half of the season and bailing us out.

Put it this way, if the roles were reversed and it was Ade with 2 open play goals whilst Soldado scored all those goals in the second half of the season...do you think the majority would choose Ade on their preferred X1...I DOUBT 1 PERSON (myself included) would put Ade as the first choice if that happened so yes there is clearly very strange support for Soldado.

 

[billyiddo]

you think there's only two posters who would rather Adebayor than Soldado?

as for your main point - could it be that people think that the game which Soldado plays would be of more benefit to the team than how Adebayor plays? that's certainly how i see it - no surprise if others think the same.


i think you're in danger of letting a couple of posters' obvious dislike for him cloud your judgment of the majorities reasons.

 

[Kingdawson]

you think there's only two posters who would rather Adebayor than Soldado?

as for your main point - could it be that people think that the game which Soldado plays would be of more benefit to the team than how Adebayor plays? that's certainly how i see it - no surprise if others think the same.

so basically it was irrelevant what Ade did last season and people would still want Soldado leading the line despite what he did do (or didn't do).

You can say i'm biased with Ade but at least i go on solely what i see with my eyes and make a judgment on that. If Ade scored 2 open play goals last season whilst Soldado was beasting the second half of the season there's absolutely no way i would pick Ade as the starter the following season...no way no how.

 

[billyiddo]

why do you keep refering to two open play goals last season if it's only the second half of which you count? as admitted to earlier? a second half of the season where he was second choice and played most the games off the bench

i go on solely what i see with my eyes

what about the Limassol away game where you didnt have a s.tream and was still clogging up the OMT ****ging Soldado off? was you solely going on your eyes then?

 

[Jordinho]

Soldado scored 11 goals in all competitions last season, Adebayor 14. The problem with Ade is that 11 of them came in 2 month spell, from late December to end of February. After that he went completely off the boil and there's no sign of an imminent return to form, which is why it's time to give someone else a chance.