Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Yermiyahu]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Oh leave off. We beat Utd last season in the same manner, infact it was even more "backs to the wall" than today imo. When we beat Arsenal at home under AVB, we played more on the counter and let them have the ball. Anytime we have gone "toe-to-toe" against good sides, we have shipped goals galore.

And please name me these plucky "smash n grab" victories at Old Trafford that we got all through the 90's and 2000's, coz I must have missed them.

Exactly.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For me its a return to the 90s and 00s. Plucky 'smash and grab' football then desperate backs to the wall as our soft centre implodes.

If that's 'our Tottenham back' then I do despair. It wasn't long ago we were genuinely trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys by learning to play like contenders.

You despair after a victory like today's? Christ, I take your point about learning to play like contenders, but I don't remember contenders losing 6-0 away and then 5-0 at home within the space of a few weeks, or scoring eight goals in nine home league games, or taking twenty shots from outside the box during a laboured draw and then claiming superiority by virtue of statistics.

I supported AVB. I understood what he was trying to do. I appreciated his earnest desire to see us succeed. But I also realise that he was getting something horribly, unspeakably wrong, that he was freezing out players who would have been immensely useful if motivated properly (see: Ade) and that the more criticism he received, the more he retreated into his shell and played suicidally high defensive lines with no midfield pressing against the likes of Liverpool and City.

He did a lot of things wrong. Today, Sherwood got almost everything right, and his plucky 'smash and grab' football gave us the same result with largely the same performance included as AVB's most memorable day: the win at Old Trafford. His 'smash and grab' football has rejuventated the side and given them the confidence to score ten goals in five games, unimaginable mere weeks ago. And his 'smash and grab', 90's era football has given us three wins, a draw and a loss so far.

AVB's tactical tinkering gave us a side that lost 5-0 at home to Liverpool, and drew 2-2 with United at home, conceding two soft goals in the process. Sherwood's 'backs to the wall' football gave us a 2-1 win, i.e one less goal conceded than AVB's game against Moyes' side at home.

Given the circumstances, I know which one I prefer at the moment. My earnest hope is that if we do end up succeeding under Sherwood, you'll drop your grudge, stop suppressing the happiness I know you feel after results like these (you are a Spurs fan, after all) and let the ghosts of the AVB era go, difficult as it might be.

If Sherwood succeeds, 'learning to play like contenders' won't be necessary. And if he doesn't, I have no doubt he'll have given us a decent few months to watch and enjoy, and I'm confident that Levy will appoint someone in the summer who will try to get us playing like the contenders again, AVB 2.0 if you will. So either way, we'll win (or at least come out of it relatively unharmed). So sit back and enjoy this end-to-end Spurs spectacle for a while: you owe it to yourself. At least we're scoring now, eh?

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

whats ODVDG?

Opposition DVD guy. It is how the Chelsea players regarded him. And yeah of course I'm being disrespectful but then he disrespected us. You can **** off fans the fans if you're Alex Ferguson or Roy Keane and won everything in the game but not if you've had just one decent year at Porto. And if we've onto to acronyms for managers....

 

[Craig_J]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For me its a return to the 90s and 00s. Plucky 'smash and grab' football then desperate backs to the wall as our soft centre implodes.

If that's 'our Tottenham back' then I do despair. It wasn't long ago we were genuinely trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys by learning to play like contenders.

:ross::ross::ross::ross::ross:

I can only hope for your sake that you're being ssarcastic because that's the funniest post I've ever seen on this forum. :lol:

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For me its a return to the 90s and 00s. Plucky 'smash and grab' football then desperate backs to the wall as our soft centre implodes.

If that's 'our Tottenham back' then I do despair. It wasn't long ago we were genuinely trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys by learning to play like contenders.

If you cant be positive after our last two matches I don't see why you even bother supporting the club? In the end it's about results and entertainment both of which have been excellent.

We have just done something today that has only happened twice in the last 30 years and you are trolling continuing your AVB fanboy rant it's sad really

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That quote has really pis5ed off some United fans

Link to any funny forum threads?

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For me its a return to the 90s and 00s. Plucky 'smash and grab' football then desperate backs to the wall as our soft centre implodes.

If that's 'our Tottenham back' then I do despair. It wasn't long ago we were genuinely trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys by learning to play like contenders.

Remind me again how often we won at OT in the nineties and noughties?

 

[punk_is_back`]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Opposition DVD guy. It is how the Chelsea players regarded him. And yeah of course I'm being disrespectful but then he disrespected us. You can **** off fans the fans if you're Alex Ferguson or Roy Keane and won everything in the game but not if you've had just one decent year at Porto. And if we've onto to acronyms for managers....

How did AVB disrespect us? If anything he was amazingly good at representing us. All he asked was for the crowd at the Lane to get behind us, as the players wanted more support. If anything Redknapp disrespected us by calling Spurs fans stupid and them telling us this was as good as it gets. AVB may not have worked out, but he was ever gracious with the fans and the clubs reputation.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Opposition DVD guy. It is how the Chelsea players regarded him. And yeah of course I'm being disrespectful but then he disrespected us. You can **** off fans the fans if you're Alex Ferguson or Roy Keane and won everything in the game but not if you've had just one decent year at Porto. And if we've onto to acronyms for managers....

haha I see. I didnt know they had named him that. Seems true though. I guess we have seen evidence from what we have seen that you dont need to be so regimental in you rapproach to be successful - albeit only four games

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You despair after a victory like today's? Christ, I take your point about learning to play like contenders, but I don't remember contenders losing 6-0 away and then 5-0 at home within the space of a few weeks, or scoring eight goals in nine home league games, or taking twenty shots from outside the box during a laboured draw and then claiming superiority by virtue of statistics.

I supported AVB. I understood what he was trying to do. I appreciated his earnest desire to see us succeed. But I also realise that he was getting something horribly, unspeakably wrong, that he was freezing out players who would have been immensely useful if motivated properly (see: Ade) and that the more criticism he received, the more he retreated into his shell and played suicidally high defensive lines with no midfield pressing against the likes of Liverpool and City.

He did a lot of things wrong. Today, Sherwood got almost everything right, and his plucky 'smash and grab' football gave us the same result with largely the same performance included as AVB's most memorable day: the win at Old Trafford. His 'smash and grab' football has rejuventated the side and given them the confidence to score ten goals in five games, unimaginable mere weeks ago. And his 'smash and grab', 90's era football has given us three wins, a draw and a loss so far.

AVB's tactical tinkering gave us a side that lost 5-0 at home to Liverpool, and drew 2-2 with United at home, conceding two soft goals in the process. Sherwood's 'backs to the wall' football gave us a 2-1 win, i.e one less goal conceded than AVB's game against Moyes' side at home.

Given the circumstances, I know which one I prefer at the moment. My earnest hope is that if we do end up succeeding under Sherwood, you'll drop your grudge, stop suppressing the happiness I know you feel after results like these (you are a Spurs fan, after all) and let the ghosts of the AVB era go, difficult as it might be.

If Sherwood succeeds, 'learning to play like contenders' won't be necessary. And if he doesn't, I have no doubt he'll have given us a decent few months to watch and enjoy, and I'm confident that Levy will appoint someone in the summer who will try to get us playing like the contenders again, AVB 2.0 if you will. So either way, we'll win (or at least come out of it relatively unharmed). So sit back and enjoy this end-to-end Spurs spectacle for a while: you owe it to yourself. At least we're scoring now, eh?

This isn't wrong, it's a choice he decides to make, and if backed we would see the benefits of that. As it is, we are backing Sherwood and seeing the benefit of his choices. But if we suddenly start shipping tonnes of goals under TS, sack him, bring back Jacques Santini and get 10 clean sheets in a row, it won't be that TS was 'wrong' because he was playing offensive football, we would have just stopped backing him and decided to back someone else.

Managers have to get things how they want in order to do well. At the moment Sherwood has said he has to get the players keeping the ball better, learning to make the attacks come in waves and playing more one touch around the box. That's a small example of something he needs to get how he wants it. AVB wanted a squad full of similar personalities, reliable types that he could trust. He probably also didn't want the highest paid player hanging around the squad not playing, and dragging down everyone's morale because of it, so he sends him away. Just because Ade is playing well now it doesn't mean AVB was wrong to do what he was doing. He wanted to play with one striker. He wanted the team to learn how to play the way he wanted to get to, and he wanted to sell Ade. He had been pragmatic last season, going to 4-4-2 and using Ade, getting on with and everything. But this season I think he decided he needed to move us towards playing the way he ultimately wanted to get us to do. It's not wrong...if we decided to back him or if things went his way, we would reap the benefits of that.

What I'm trying to say is that there are loads of forces at play which decide whether or not someone is successful, beyond the fact that someone is making the 'right' or 'wrong' tactical decision or player selection. There's AVB's forces and what he wants to do. There's what the club wants. There's what players want. There's what players are capable of doing. There's results. There's lots of things going on beyond whether it's right to play a certain player or not. There isn't really a right or wrong, it's what different parties are trying to achieve.

The other thing - I think pressing was intended against City and Liverpool but if the opposition is good or we are really rubbish then they will get round it. But there's certainly no way I would really see someone intending to play a high line with no pressing - there are no logical benefits to it and AVB's philosophy isn't to do that.

Anyway I don't really wanna talk about AVB too much. I'm delighted with Sherwood but I can imagine there'll be a lot of 'AVB should have done this' over the coming days because Sherwood is doing something else - but they are different men trying to achieve different things toward the same goal of making us successful.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

your heads gone.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

I don't think that we did that at all. The way that we approached the game had the air of a Ferguson United team. Apart from the opening and closing 20 minutes we were well on top and considering the team that we had out at the end of the game we did exceptionally well. Sadly, I think that you will never give credit to the team for a good performance all that the time Sherwood is in charge.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

how would you describe last seasons win there? I thought we perfromed better today.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The long term is always through the Sporting Director. Arnesen left, Comolli's head coach appointment was a failure and he had to go but both left considerable legacies taken on by those that followed. This is clearly why Levy was eager to return to it. No doubt he also compared the vast profits made from players sales under that system with the poor value brought in under Harry.

As for coaches/managers, it should be clear by now that anyone half decent hits the ground running. If they're not delivering clear objective progress after two years.. get rid! All the stuff about replacing coaches = years of transition is guff. See Rodgers, Martinez, Pardew.. did Liverpool, Everton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine slide down the table or take years to recover from the change? No, quite the opposite.

Sherwood starting well bodes well for the long term. The ODVDG started with a team that had finished 4th and left us with a demoralised team in 7th and he was meant to be some sort of progressive coaching genius. And there is no evidence that he'll 'learn' as it is hugely about character and personality. If that isn't there then you lose the players every time. This was the folly of saying Hoddle will somehow have 'improved' from 7 years ago. He had about 15 years in management and was still having the same issues at the end. The ODVDG probably would have failed long term at Porto too.

That's a common mistake that a lot of fans make. That football is all about buying the best players.

Well, the unfortunate news is that if that's what it's all about, you'd better get used to 5th place (barring occasional **** ups from the top 4). Sporting Director or not, we will never beat the bigger spenders over the long term that way. We may discover the odd Modric/Bale/Berbatov but they will always have half a team of those players.

In order to regularly compete with them, our team will have to continually play as more than the sum of its parts. A good motivator (which the current incumbent of our hot seat may well be) can get us playing to the extent of our players' abilities, but we need them to do much more if we're to compete. Without a system that runs through the club from top to bottom, and without that system being better than that of our opponents, we can't get where we all want to be.

As much as I hate to say it, our nomadic neighbours are the perfect example of what we need to do. Can you honestly say you can see Sherwood being the architect and implementer of such a system like Wenger? I just don't see it.

So like I said, I'm doing everything I can to ignore the long term because Levy 's clearly not doing anything about it, so I might as well just enjoy each match as an individual entity.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

But we should play like that against the Emirates Marketing Project's, Liverpool's and West Ham's of this world.

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I just think we're a much better team than Man U now and shouldn't be playing them like subservients.

We're not a mid-table team trying to nick something off one of the untouchable big 4 anymore, but that's what it felt like.

so basically AVB under achieved in the game that resulted in a draw.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's a common mistake that a lot of fans make. That football is all about buying the best players.

Well, the unfortunate news is that if that's what it's all about, you'd better get used to 5th place (barring occasional **** ups from the top 4). Sporting Director or not, we will never beat the bigger spenders over the long term that way. We may discover the odd Modric/Bale/Berbatov but they will always have half a team of those players.

In order to regularly compete with them, our team will have to continually play as more than the sum of its parts. A good motivator (which the current incumbent of our hot seat may well be) can get us playing to the extent of our players' abilities, but we need them to do much more if we're to compete. Without a system that runs through the club from top to bottom, and without that system being better than that of our opponents, we can't get where we all want to be.

As much as I hate to say it, our nomadic neighbours are the perfect example of what we need to do. Can you honestly say you can see Sherwood being the architect and implementer of such a system like Wenger? I just don't see it.

So like I said, I'm doing everything I can to ignore the long term because Levy 's clearly not doing anything about it, so I might as well just enjoy each match as an individual entity.

It's impossible to say at the moment. If he is as impressive as the people running the club seem to think then possibly but we will have to give it a lot more than four games to get a good idea.

The first challenge that he faced was to lift the team, get results and start us scoring again. He has passed this with flying colours. There are many and more difficult tests to come but surely, we can only judge how he does in these as we face them.

It seems to me that a lot of people are judging Sherwood on his accent and flippant interview style.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's impossible to say at the moment. If he is as impressive as the people running the club seem to think then possibly but we will have to give it a lot more than four games to get a good idea.

The first challenge that he faced was to lift the team, get results and start us scoring again. He has passed this with flying colours. There are many and more difficult tests to come but surely, we can only judge how he does in these as we face them.

It seems to me that a lot of people are judging Sherwood on his accent and flippant interview style.

Actually, my judgement of Sherwood was on his pundit work. Hopefully he's learned a lot since then, but at the time he was the polar opposite of whatever "manager material" is.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Actually, my judgement of Sherwood was on his pundit work. Hopefully he's learned a lot since then, but at the time he was the polar opposite of whatever "manager material" is.

It's a different job though and most TV channels want someone who can make the game seem simple and offer a few quips. Maybe he was just delivering what he was being paid to do.