Gazza

[braineclipse]

For me, unlike some other therapies, it deals with very concrete and structured concepts and doesn't require abstract thought (the homework people generally do is pretty straight forward ) but as you say you do need a comprehension of the issues at hand and I agree that it would be a tough one with Gazza because his issues are so complex. Anyway, has Benteke signed yet? I'm starting to feel I joined the wrong forum

Would you say that understanding how CBT works on the client side is more decided by motivation than brain power?

Cheers for you input in this thread, even though it's probably not why you joined it's always appreciated to get the input of experts when appropriate and available.

 

[mudshark]

thing is, he chose alcohol, people cant chose heart disease, cancer etc etc. you can have a mental disorder and not drink

In the British Isles, in his generation, with the culture of drinking in the society as a whole, never mind in the rarefied world of top-flight football? Just think about what you're saying. It was a train-wreck waiting to happen, given his personality.

Depressing levels of willful ignorance being displayed yet again by a few in this thread. Christ.

 

[thfcsteff]

thing is, he chose alcohol, people cant chose heart disease, cancer etc etc. you can have a mental disorder and not drink

No he didn't...

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Some really intersting stuff in this thread. Especially the stuff about depression treatments. It's highlighted something which I've often thought though; Many people just don't understand alcoholism.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

No, let's not get into the nature nurture debate as, you're right, no one has the bottom line. That debate does obviously apply to physical AND mental illness though. All I'm saying is the idea there is a 'choice' is not true... I work as a clinical psychologist so hope I have some understanding

I'm sure you know more then me then. I just studied it for a year and find it interesting to read and talk about

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

There are certainly other reasons for (partially) combing the two.

Alcoholism is a very complex issue, I don't think at this point general statements like this one can be made about what is the most helpful approach to classification.



Not sure why brain cancers is the comparison being used. Is that the prototypical physical illness? Why not the flu? Or Diabetes? Or any number of other physical illnesses...

The nature vs nurture debate isn't over, but at this point anyone claiming that it's one or the other is on the fringe at best. There's overwhelming evidence supporting that mental disorders are influenced by both environmental and genetic factors.

You're seemingly saying that Gazza isn't fighting his problems, or not fighting them well enough and that this is down to choice or personality? Am I understanding this right?

I'm saying some people are fighting and dealing with their problems better than Gazza, yes. Anyway, I have a lot of sympathy and love for him, I wouldn't support Spurs without him.

I believe in nature and nurture.

I used brain cancer as an extreme example to emphasize my point. It's a pretty common tactic in a debate. A bit like you saying "the flu". Comparing the flu and mental disease is pretty fatuous. If you can't tell the difference between psychic and physical pain, then there's nowhere to go with this...

 

[braineclipse]

I'm saying some people are fighting and dealing with their problems better than Gazza, yes. Anyway, I have a lot of sympathy and love for him, I wouldn't support Spurs without him.

I believe in nature and nurture.

I used brain cancer as an extreme example to emphasize my point. It's a pretty common tactic in a debate. A bit like you saying "the flu". Comparing the flu and mental disease is pretty fatuous. If you can't tell the difference between psychic and physical pain, then there's nowhere to go with this...

My question was one about choice and/or personality as the basis for that fight or lack of fight, not just a statement about fighting the problems or not.

Then you should be pretty used to getting extreme examples in the other direction to point out just how extreme the comparison is. I thought it was pretty clear from my post that I wasn't equating the flu and mental disease, but rather comparing what you said to something that is as extreme. I didn't think your example emphasized your point and by your own rationale it was at least a bit fatuous.

I'm not sure what part of my post(s) made you think that I can't tell the difference between psychological and physical pain? I was talking about classification, causes and treatment/resistance.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Okay, that's your question not mine. If you look around the internet for a bit you might find an answer to satisfy you.

I don't believe mental and physical disease are as equatable as some simplistic current sayings suggest.

Again, okay, you were talking about what you were talking about. I don't know why you're now addressing me for the answers, you must get some thrill out of winning arguments on the internet. Look on the internet, you'll find more knowledgeable answers.

 

[braineclipse]

Okay, that's your question not mine. If you look around the internet for a bit you might find an answer to satisfy you.

I don't believe mental and physical disease are as equatable as some simplistic current sayings suggest.

Again, okay, you were talking about what you were talking about. I don't know why you're now addressing me for the answers, you must get some thrill out of winning arguments on the internet. Look on the internet, you'll find more knowledgeable answers.

It was a clarifying question I asked you to try to better understand what you were saying.

I thought you said you found it interesting talking about these things, if you didn't feel like it then just say so. I feel no need to justify my participation in this thread.

 

[markysimmo]

Ex-England footballer Paul Gascoigne has been charged with being drunk and disorderly at a railway station.

The 46-year-old, who left rehab in the USA earlier this year, was arrested following an alleged incident this month in Stevenage, Hertfordshire.

Mr Gascoigne, of Gateshead, was also charged with two counts of common assault by British Transport Police.

The former Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Tottenham and Rangers player will appear before magistrates in Stevenage on 5 August.

Mr Gascoigne was arrested by police at the station at about 22:30 BST on 4 July. He was was later released on police bail.

Baljit Ubhey, chief crown prosecutor for the Thames and Chiltern area, said: "Following a British Transport Police (BTP) investigation, a file was forwarded to us to consider whether any criminal charges could be brought against the 46-year-old man.

"Having carefully reviewed all of the available evidence, Thames and Chiltern CPS authorised officers from BTP to charge the man with common assault and being drunk and disorderly."

 

[onlyme]

Anyone else they would not bother charging.

 

[Alan Brazil]

Fingers crossed there is someone or something out there that can help him

 

[onlyme]

Fingers crossed there is someone or something out there that can help him

Right now I have drunk a gallon of lager tonight and have had a row with my missus (curiously before drinking the lager and not connected)

I can handle drinking. I can handle drama from my nearest and dearest. Some can't. Or maybe I can't. Maybe I am making it all up.

Maybe I am an emotional wreck. Maybe I am loving every minute of my life. Mental problems are much, much more of a problem than physical problems.

 

[Hootnow]

Okay, that's your question not mine. If you look around the internet for a bit you might find an answer to satisfy you.

I don't believe mental and physical disease are as equatable as some simplistic current sayings suggest.

You're right, they're not. Mental disease is far worse.

 

[Nezza]

Being Paul Gascoigne

Being Paul Gascoigne

Spurs and Saudi Sportswashing Machine legend Paul Gascoigne has described "the pain" of knowing he might start drinking again even though he recognises it might kill him.

A new ITV documentary about the former England footballer reveals he is now addicted to sweets and spends £1,000 a year on anti-wrinkle jabs to counteract the ravages of drinking.

Gascoigne, who played for teams including Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Tottenham Hotspur, was followed by a film crew for three months for an ITV documentary after his return from a treatment clinic in the United States where he overheard doctors say he might die.

The 46-year-old told the filmmakers: "I just remember one bit after the third day of being in hospital when he said 'I don't think this guy is going to make it' and I sort of put my head up a little bit and I was like, tubes in my arms and an oxygen tank injecting round my heart and lungs and that. I just come forward and I went 'I don't want to die I need to water the plants' and that was it and then I woke up two weeks later."

Gascoigne, who describes himself as "an addictive personality", said: "With me now if I did have a drink and relapse, it's like becoming tipsy and merry is okay for a couple of days but like the next mouthful I'm so down, I'm so depressed, I cry. I do all that because I know inside I'm hurting myself again. I know where I'm heading, a wooden box. Or I'm back in treatment or hospital. Or getting sectioned."

Gascoigne said he had been "lucky twice" after almost dying from drink, saying: "I hope I don't die through it. Because I won't get any sympathy...because well he was warned. At least I know if I did pass away through it I wouldn't be in this pain all the time.

"The pain's like I know probably in the future I am going to drink again. I know in a year's time I am going to have f****** hassle again and you know family worrying and Sheryl worried, the kids worried, nephews worried, friends are worried. I just think sometimes, just think f****** hell. Just go away i.e. drink or me go away - and that means a wooden box and six nails.... and I don't know why, I just don't know why I f****** pick up the drink."

Gascoigne, who lives alone in Bournemouth, described his addiction counsellors as "true friends" and said: "When I packed in football a lot of my mates disappeared."

He also said he spent around £60,000 on "James Bond" gadgets which he says can spot if he is being filmed by hidden cameras.

The documentary, Being Paul Gascoigne, which includes interviews with his parents, ex-wife Sheryl and children Regan and Bianca, airs on ITV at 9pm tomorrow.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Being Paul Gascoigne

He was my first Spurs hero as I was 6 when he scored "that goal" against Scum. But I can't defend his actions anymore. You just hope for his own sake that he finally gets his **** together. To be fair, he's had plenty of help that most people wouldn't be so lucky to get.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Being Paul Gascoigne

Used to love him, but find this whole public breakdown drama pretty boring now.

Let the poor guy face his demons, or not, in private.

 

[Howard Webb]

Re: Being Paul Gascoigne

Good thing you don't give a ****, what would people think?

I wouldn't **** on you if you were on fire.

 

[Dorothy]

Re: Being Paul Gascoigne

Tricky one but at what point does someone get popped in a padded cell for their own safety? We've seen this all before and we know how it ends. Loved Gazza briefly in his hayday but the only chance he has is to be protected from himself.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: Being Paul Gascoigne

Sad to see what has happened to him, he was a genius on the pitch. I'm privileged to have watched him play in a Spurs shirt. Thank you Gazza!