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Steven Bergwijn

glorygloryeze said:
Can you understand why though? I mean what's in Kulu's game that's not in Bergwijn's etc? Aside from whatever position the coach might see as Bergwijn's best etc?
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I think Bergwijn has a similar problems to Lucas
- Kulu murders both of them re physical strength, he simply doesn't go down under tackles/pressure (I think it's the #1 reason he's been an instant success in the PL)
- The other is he stays wide, he uses the width of the pitch, Bergwijn naturally drifts in earlier.
- And lastly has been the link up with Kane/Son, I don't know if that's football intelligence, but he's immediately been able to find those two guys regularly

I think Bergwijn is a good player, but where he's best, we simply have better options which in turn limits his ability to improve.

Be interesting if we were willing to keep him another season and start him in at least the domestic cup matches and see if he improves further.
 
parklane1 said:
I still hope we keep him, there is a player in there imo.
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There's definitely a very good player in Bergwijn imo.

The only way that player comes out is through sufficient game time in a role and system that suits him. If Conte doesn't think that's happening here we'd be better off selling him. Even if he goes on to have a great career elsewhere.

We're seemingly working on a very clear plan in terms of system and the player types we want in that system. The path to success is players that fit the requirements for that as much as possible.

I honestly don't quite see what makes Bergwijn a poor fit in this system. But his lack of game time, is reportedly considering selling him in January and fairly strong rumours that we're willing or even wanting to sell him this summer... Seems like Conte doesn't see him as a great fit.
 
braineclipse said:
There's definitely a very good player in Bergwijn imo.

I honestly don't quite see what makes Bergwijn a poor fit in this system. But his lack of game time, is reportedly considering selling him in January and fairly strong rumours that we're willing or even wanting to sell him this summer... Seems like Conte doesn't see him as a great fit.
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Really? (to be clear, I don't think Bergwijn is a bad player), but I can see why he isn't getting game time

- Conte sees him as a 2nd striker, down the middle, playing off Kane
- We don't play that way
- In our front three, we will not sub Kane/Son very often and Conte sees Lucas as the alternative to Kulu
- Lucas (and no I'm not going to argue) is clearly seen as more versatile (bit of a chaos engine), and perhaps more of a creator (yes, could be better)
 
Raziel said:
Really? (to be clear, I don't think Bergwijn is a bad player), but I can see why he isn't getting game time

- Conte sees him as a 2nd striker, down the middle, playing off Kane
- We don't play that way
- In our front three, we will not sub Kane/Son very often and Conte sees Lucas as the alternative to Kulu
- Lucas (and no I'm not going to argue) is clearly seen as more versatile (bit of a chaos engine), and perhaps more of a creator (yes, could be better)
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I guess I don't quite see why he's not seen as a good fit for the wide attacking roles.

The left one is difficult to get game time in because Son is so damned good.

The right one, perhaps some of it is that we've had wing backs on that side that are better coming inside instead of hugging the touchline. So we want a right sided attacker that is comfortable both in wider positions and more centrally.

Still don't quite see what he's lacking to be a good/better option for that right sided attacking role.

For the record, not saying that I think he should have played more or that Conte is wrong. Just trying to understand some of what Conte bases his decisions on and coming up very short.
 
braineclipse said:
I guess I don't quite see why he's not seen as a good fit for the wide attacking roles.

The left one is difficult to get game time in because Son is so damned good.

The right one, perhaps some of it is that we've had wing backs on that side that are better coming inside instead of hugging the touchline. So we want a right sided attacker that is comfortable both in wider positions and more centrally.

Still don't quite see what he's lacking to be a good/better option for that right sided attacking role.

For the record, not saying that I think he should have played more or that Conte is wrong. Just trying to understand some of what Conte bases his decisions on and coming up very short.
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I think he has a role off the bench to replace Kane TBH or play along side him, also a role for the right before Moura, but TBH I expect him to leave this summer
 
braineclipse said:
I guess I don't quite see why he's not seen as a good fit for the wide attacking roles.

The left one is difficult to get game time in because Son is so damned good.

The right one, perhaps some of it is that we've had wing backs on that side that are better coming inside instead of hugging the touchline. So we want a right sided attacker that is comfortable both in wider positions and more centrally.

Still don't quite see what he's lacking to be a good/better option for that right sided attacking role.

For the record, not saying that I think he should have played more or that Conte is wrong. Just trying to understand some of what Conte bases his decisions on and coming up very short.
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A right sided attacker but with a right foot it means he's not going to be able to cut inside and shoot. That massively reduces the threat that he can offer. It's why most sides play opposite foot3d players in the wide attacker spaces. Bergwijn hasn't really shown anything with his left foot so he's not going to be able to score the goal that say Kulu scored against Norwich.

Cutting in from the left suits him although again we haven't really seen a great shooting from distance or from the angle (but that could be linked just to game time). He isn't going to start ahead of Son and maybe from Conte's perspective he may just not rate him as a serious contender for Son. Thus he seems to prefer him through the middle.

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Would he have got more minutes if sonny hadn't been chasing the golden boot, we can all see how much conte loves son and the lift the whole dressing room got from it.
With more games to manage he may get more game time.
 
glasgowspur said:
Would he have got more minutes if sonny hadn't been chasing the golden boot, we can all see how much conte loves son and the lift the whole dressing room got from it.
With more games to manage he may get more game time.
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Son getting the golden boot only became a thing in the last month or so of the league. Salah stopped scoring in feb allowing him to catch up.
 
glasgowspur said:
Would he have got more minutes if sonny hadn't been chasing the golden boot, we can all see how much conte loves son and the lift the whole dressing room got from it.
With more games to manage he may get more game time.
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I don't see Conte as the type to amend his gameplan based on someone acheiving a personal accolade, do you?

As for Stevie, honestly for his sake I hope he finds somewhere next season where he can play his preferred position and be an integral part of the team - Sitting around for another season to see if Son gets injured isn't the best use of his time and I don't think he has what's required to force himself in to our lineup. Moura being ahead of him in the pecking order in Conte's eyes speaks volumes, and although Ivan may play more in a wingback role he also will jump ahead in the queue for either wide forward role.
 
Maybe with CL he might want to stay and remain an impact sub. After all Conte has played him when he was needed effectively.
 
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