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Financial Results

AdamB said:
Aside from interest rate / refinancing risk, I agree. Cant remember what our maturities are and whether we're paying fixed/floating rates
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It's bond issues with maturities up to 30 years and an average of 23years at a fixed rate of 2.7%, with a final bullet payment we will never pay.
There is no point paying off the capital not at those rates and inflation helping.
The interest cost is now locked in as a known fixed cost, ie the stage we wanted to get to.
We have gross debt of £854 so that would be £23m pa interest. Which a good stadium naming deal would pay.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's bond issues with maturities up to 30 years and an average of 23years at a fixed rate of 2.7%, with a final bullet payment we will never pay.
There is no point paying off the capital not at those rates and inflation helping.
The interest cost is now locked in as a known fixed cost, ie the stage we wanted to get to.
We have gross debt of £854 so that would be £23m pa interest. Which a good stadium naming deal would pay.
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Thanks. Having raised the issue of debt I think I’d like to close the door on now.
 
Bullet said:
I assume the £400m spent on players since the stadium opened includes some complex amortisation and wages calculation for players from several years before on long deals.
I also assume we will see Levy, Paratici, Ndombele and Doherty taking turns on reception at the new hotel, to cut costs and ensure it is seen as a footballing investment.
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I looked into this a little further and I think the £400m is total gross cost that also includes monies potentially owing for players purchased this window.

A majority of transfers are shown as post balance sheet events.
The 2019, 2020 and 2021 accounts show these and the details the total net expenditure including levies. The following amounts were stated:

2019: £74,500,000
2020: £97,600,000
2021: £46,800,000 (this one also includes the costs of disposing of Aurier).
= ~£219m

These numbers do not include any January business (i.e. purchase of Bergwijn) or any players signed/sold towards the start of the window (I could only notice Jack Clarke not being named) So misses about £40m of gross costs.

In that same period we have sold about £120m worth of players (Trippier, Dembele, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Lamela, Sissoko, Foyth, Janssen, Nkoudou, Onomah, Walker Peters, Hart)

It does evidence though that over the past 3 years we have spent £80m net per year on transfers, which I feel is a decent amount and if we continue that sort of net spend as a minimum we should keep ourselves in the top 6 or 7 in the PL (providing it is spent by the right recruitment team).

The above numbers are taken directly from the accounts. That 2020 number looks very strange to me though.... Here is the excerpt from the accounts:

Since the balance sheet date the following events have occurred:
G Lo Celso joined permanently from Real Betis
P Hojbjerg was purchased from Southampton
K Walker-Peters was sold to Southampton
J Hart joined from Burnley
M Doherty was purchased from Wolverhampton Wanderers.
S Reguliion was purchased from Real Madrid
G Bale was loaned from Real Madrid
C Vinicius was loaned from Benfica
J Foyth was loaned to Villareal
R Sessegnon was loaned to Hoffenheim

I really don't see how that lot above nets out to over £97m..... Suggests some big agents fees to me or perhaps even Gareth Bale's wage costs included in the number where Madrid continued to pay his wages while we made a contribution to Madrid in lieu of those?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I looked into this a little further and I think the £400m is total gross cost that also includes monies potentially owing for players purchased this window.

A majority of transfers are shown as post balance sheet events.
The 2019, 2020 and 2021 accounts show these and the details the total net expenditure including levies. The following amounts were stated:

2019: £74,500,000
2020: £97,600,000
2021: £46,800,000 (this one also includes the costs of disposing of Aurier).
= ~£219m

These numbers do not include any January business (i.e. purchase of Bergwijn) or any players signed/sold towards the start of the window (I could only notice Jack Clarke not being named) So misses about £40m of gross costs.

In that same period we have sold about £120m worth of players (Trippier, Dembele, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Lamela, Sissoko, Foyth, Janssen, Nkoudou, Onomah, Walker Peters, Hart)

It does evidence though that over the past 3 years we have spent £80m net per year on transfers, which I feel is a decent amount and if we continue that sort of net spend as a minimum we should keep ourselves in the top 6 or 7 in the PL (providing it is spent by the right recruitment team).

The above numbers are taken directly from the accounts. That 2020 number looks very strange to me though.... Here is the excerpt from the accounts:

Since the balance sheet date the following events have occurred:
G Lo Celso joined permanently from Real Betis
P Hojbjerg was purchased from Southampton
K Walker-Peters was sold to Southampton
J Hart joined from Burnley
M Doherty was purchased from Wolverhampton Wanderers.
S Reguliion was purchased from Real Madrid
G Bale was loaned from Real Madrid
C Vinicius was loaned from Benfica
J Foyth was loaned to Villareal
R Sessegnon was loaned to Hoffenheim

I really don't see how that lot above nets out to over £97m..... Suggests some big agents fees to me or perhaps even Gareth Bale's wage costs included in the number where Madrid continued to pay his wages while we made a contribution to Madrid in lieu of those?
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Levy probably sees a transfer different to the way the media reports it to us. He has to cost the whole package, the media will report what we pay to the other club. Agent fees, signing on fees etc... remember mendes saying ronaldos total package when joining madrid was over €100m. Yet was reported as less.
 
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Finney Is Back said:
I looked into this a little further and I think the £400m is total gross cost that also includes monies potentially owing for players purchased this window.

A majority of transfers are shown as post balance sheet events.
The 2019, 2020 and 2021 accounts show these and the details the total net expenditure including levies. The following amounts were stated:

2019: £74,500,000
2020: £97,600,000
2021: £46,800,000 (this one also includes the costs of disposing of Aurier).
= ~£219m

These numbers do not include any January business (i.e. purchase of Bergwijn) or any players signed/sold towards the start of the window (I could only notice Jack Clarke not being named) So misses about £40m of gross costs.

In that same period we have sold about £120m worth of players (Trippier, Dembele, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Lamela, Sissoko, Foyth, Janssen, Nkoudou, Onomah, Walker Peters, Hart)

It does evidence though that over the past 3 years we have spent £80m net per year on transfers, which I feel is a decent amount and if we continue that sort of net spend as a minimum we should keep ourselves in the top 6 or 7 in the PL (providing it is spent by the right recruitment team).

The above numbers are taken directly from the accounts. That 2020 number looks very strange to me though.... Here is the excerpt from the accounts:

Since the balance sheet date the following events have occurred:
G Lo Celso joined permanently from Real Betis
P Hojbjerg was purchased from Southampton
K Walker-Peters was sold to Southampton
J Hart joined from Burnley
M Doherty was purchased from Wolverhampton Wanderers.
S Reguliion was purchased from Real Madrid
G Bale was loaned from Real Madrid
C Vinicius was loaned from Benfica
J Foyth was loaned to Villareal
R Sessegnon was loaned to Hoffenheim

I really don't see how that lot above nets out to over £97m..... Suggests some big agents fees to me or perhaps even Gareth Bale's wage costs included in the number where Madrid continued to pay his wages while we made a contribution to Madrid in lieu of those?
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screen shot of money out according to transfer market
 
Finney Is Back said:
It does evidence though that over the past 3 years we have spent £80m net per year on transfers, which I feel is a decent amount and if we continue that sort of net spend as a minimum we should keep ourselves in the top 6 or 7 in the PL (providing it is spent by the right recruitment team).
Click to expand...
80m per year should have us fighting for top 4 as a minimum. There are only 6 teams that can keep that spending up for more than a few years.
Spending it properly is the problem. Levy seems to have seen the mistakes of the last 2-3 years management and recruitment wise. Now it
just remains to be seen can we kick on with Conte and Paratici over the next 2-3 years.
 
DubSpur said:
80m per year should have us fighting for top 4 as a minimum. There are only 6 teams that can keep that spending up for more than a few years.
Spending it properly is the problem. Levy seems to have seen the mistakes of the last 2-3 years management and recruitment wise. Now it
just remains to be seen can we kick on with Conte and Paratici over the next 2-3 years.
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Remember though that there are four clubs who operate FAR higher wage bills than us and another club who operate a wage bill that is still higher than ours by a bit of a margin. Due to that we're likely to have to sign players who aren't fully proven and therefore accept the fact that better than a 50% hit rate is a decent result.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Remember though that there are four clubs who operate FAR higher wage bills than us and another club who operate a wage bill that is still higher than ours by a bit of a margin. Due to that we're likely to have to sign players who aren't fully proven and therefore accept the fact that better than a 50% hit rate is a decent result.
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We are (have been) way behind those Top 5 in profit from player sales. So we just need a bit more of a strategy of (as you say) players about to break through, use of the loan system and knowing when to churn and move a player on. I think we are still at a level where we can still afford some ready made players.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
We are (have been) way behind those Top 5 in profit from player sales. So we just need a bit more of a strategy of (as you say) players about to break through, use of the loan system and knowing when to churn and move a player on. I think we are still at a level where we can still afford some ready made players.
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Like Romero
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Like Romero
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Indeed. I think the last window is representative of our approach. Romero, Royal and Gil. The modern loan to buys are a good thing as well in terms of you get to try a player out.

I suppose you could say Ndombele Lo Celso and Sess is a similar window in profile?

We just need to be better at scouting and then selecting. The last window of Poch and the windows since, might just of provided much more if so, as we have made some big ticket purchases. Of course, a manager can add value all on his own as well. Look at Liverpools transfer business since the VVD Salah Robertson window, and then Alisson...only Fabinho and recently Jota have been good additions, Klopp has added so much.

Off the field is set-up now. Most costs are known, we just need to be smarter in our approach on all levels.
United have proven that you can have money but average people in the big positions get average results.
 
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Lilbaz said:
£444m revenue is very respectable. £75m more than arsenal. £50m loss i'm guessing is due to being unable to sell players. Will wait for swissramble to do his magic.
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Not a bad guess from me just over a year ago then….

Some interesting bits and pieces from the accounts:

Last season we were about £120m down on match day revenue and probably £10-20m down commercial income. These will come back in the 2022 figures. There are also two new sponsorships (Cinch and Getir) that will show in the next set of numbers. My guess is perhaps as much as £15m combined. TV and media revenue is likely to reduce in 2022 due to numbers from 2020 being pulled into 2021 and also Europa Conference being worth less than Europa (I would estimate £145m of revenue in 2022 versus 205m in 2021 as a result of these two factors.

I think we can therefore expect our revenue number in 2022 to be around £90m higher than our 2021 number, taking us to about £450m of revenue. Not quite as high as our record revenue year of 2019 but notable in the fact that it will be achieved without any major contribution from European football.​
 
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