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Financial Results

I assume the £400m spent on players since the stadium opened includes some complex amortisation and wages calculation for players from several years before on long deals.
I also assume we will see Levy, Paratici, Ndombele and Doherty taking turns on reception at the new hotel, to cut costs and ensure it is seen as a footballing investment.

ndombele
Lo Celso
Clarke
Sessengnon
Bergwijn
Reggie
Hojberg
Doherty
Rodon
Gill
Royal
Sarr
Romero

then loan fees of Bale, Vinny, Golini and Fernandez. it can’t be far off 400m can it? With not a great deal coming back in from sales. Not bad during a pandemic.

A few of us have said for a while now that the issues not the money being spent, but on what it’s being spent on. Hopefully Paratici will sort that out. Doesn’t seem to be what people want to hear though.
 
ndombele
Lo Celso
Clarke
Sessengnon
Bergwijn
Reggie
Hojberg
Doherty
Rodon
Gill
Royal
Sarr
Romero

then loan fees of Bale, Vinny, Golini and Fernandez. it can’t be far off 400m can it? With not a great deal coming back in from sales. Not bad during a pandemic.

A few of us have said for a while now that the issues not the money being spent, but on what it’s being spent on. Hopefully Paratici will sort that out. Doesn’t seem to be what people want to hear though.

Agree. At least they are young so a couple may still come good and others we can get some money back from.
Need to do better though. We used to be the best at buying young cheap players that turned out to be stars. Leicester and possibly west ham are better now.
Although a good manager having a team play well makes players look good.
 
£148m in the bank as of june. Might have a couple of quid to throw about in jan. We do owe £140m in transfer fees though.
 
We don't honestly know yet.

Royal seems to be a good player. The only thing is he seems currently suited to right back in a 4. Personally would like to see him in the back 3, with a more attacking player like Moura on the wing. But you can see Royal's technical ability and athleticism. At 22 his best years are ahead of him. He slotted into the team without any fuss. He should only get better.

Gil is a young player with clear skill. Even if he doesn't make it with us he's a minimum £20-30m player who's only 21.

Romero at 23 is young for a CB and can be rash, but you can't question his technique. He's very comfortable on the ball. Idk if he is worth the money we (will) pay. But he seems like he is. Aggressive. Technical. He can work on his impulsiveness and should settle into one of the best CBs. His lack of dominant hight isn't an issue in a 3 either. The most expensive of our signings, the jury is still out.
 
ndombele
Lo Celso
Clarke
Sessengnon
Bergwijn
Reggie
Hojberg
Doherty
Rodon
Gill
Royal
Sarr
Romero

then loan fees of Bale, Vinny, Golini and Fernandez. it can’t be far off 400m can it? With not a great deal coming back in from sales. Not bad during a pandemic.

A few of us have said for a while now that the issues not the money being spent, but on what it’s being spent on. Hopefully Paratici will sort that out. Doesn’t seem to be what people want to hear though.
I think some creative accounting may have been applied in Levy's statement there.... SwissRamble's analysis doesn't show anything like that number. Swiss Ramble shows our gross transfer spend as ~£310m since our stadium was open - £136m (gross) in financial year 2020, £110m (gross) in financial year 2021 and £46m(net) this year (financial year 2022) - I have assumed about £60m gross for that window. Total net amount is about £250m. Or ~£83m per window (which I still think is ample and should allow us to be in the top 6 and pushing for top 4 if sustained for the next 5 years).

Some interesting bits and pieces from the accounts:

Last season we were about £120m down on match day revenue and probably £10-20m down commercial income. These will come back in the 2022 figures. There are also two new sponsorships (Cinch and Getir) that will show in the next set of numbers. My guess is perhaps as much as £15m combined. TV and media revenue is likely to reduce in 2022 due to numbers from 2020 being pulled into 2021 and also Europa Conference being worth less than Europa (I would estimate £145m of revenue in 2022 versus 205m in 2021 as a result of these two factors.

I think we can therefore expect our revenue number in 2022 to be around £90m higher than our 2021 number, taking us to about £450m of revenue. Not quite as high as our record revenue year of 2019 but notable in the fact that it will be achieved without any major contribution from European football.

Against that though is the fact that our operating expenses were lower by around £44m in 2021 (I assume due to stadium being mostly closed) so that will jump back up. This will be partly offset by us likely having cut our wage bill this year (expensive players going and ones replacing them likely to be on lower salaries). Let's take a punt at a £10m reduction in wage bill this year. So we'll be about £90m of revenue up but also about £30m up on costs. Rather concerning though is that our cash position reduced by £78m in 2021, only expected really considering pretty much zero match day revenue and still a fair amount of money spent on player purchases.

It looks to me as though in normal times (assuming paying only interest and not capital on our loans, the owners not loading even more debt on the club, the club keeping a reasonably level cash flow position to what existed at end of 2021 period, having a wage to turnover ratio at around 50% and assuming the club achieves Europa League participation) our club can probably afford to invest around £70m net per season on player purchases. A stadium naming rights deal might be able to take that amount to £80m to £90m, maximising non football events at the stadium might be able to take that up another £10 - £20m. £100m net investment into the playing squad at THFC is entirely feasible without us even having CL football just as long as we can get the commercial deals done (might take a bit of swallowing his pride from Levy on the stadium naming rights).

In seasons where we reach the Champions League it might be prudent for the club to continue to spend a similar net amount on transfers and use surplus funds to improve our cash position so that we have reserves in case of unexpected items, i.e. the most serious case of relegation, or a collapse in the TV deal, or a pandemic. Or should a less impacting event occur such as not qualifying for the Europa League we could dip into cash reserves to maintain our level of spending). Increasing our cash balance would also give us the opportunity to pay down debt if and when the cost of debt increases.

In theory £450m+ of revenue in year 2022 should mean that we can operate a £225m wage bill. Given that we have probably reduced wages from the £205m number just posted for 2021 (I'm guessing we're running at £195m for 2022) that could give us some nice headroom to bring in Bosman transfers (i.e. we could get as many as 3 new £200k a week players without needing to sell/release anyone). Of course that assumes that Levy does have some ambition for us to become more competitive with our wage to turnover ratio.

We look reasonably well placed financially to be able to operate a decent, sustained investment into the first team squad. It won't allow us to compete on a level footing with Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd or even Liverpool but will allow us to compete on an equal (or more likely slightly better) footing than Arsenal and on a significantly better footing than any of the rest of the PL unless their owners sustain big capital injections.

It is clear though that we do need to get far better at selling players. We know that we can't compete with the 4 richest clubs in England so we should look to operate more like (e.g) Dortmund or Lyon, concentrating on young players, supplemented with the odd experienced head and looking to fund the next batch of promising young players by selling a superstar every couple of years. Doing that just might allow us to hit the sweet spot in the odd season where some of the young players have come on and the superstar hasn't yet been sold and we can pick ourselves up a proper major trophy. Hopefully the club getting Paratici and apparently overhauling our scouting and recruitment network indicates that we are looking towards that model. I can see us agreeing deals for two or three Bosmans in the next two windows (we have the room on the wage budget), selling Kane and bringing in Vlahovic and then using any spare funds to bring in players who are under 23 (including a few who count as association trained).
 
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I think some creative accounting may have been applied in Levy's statement there.... SwissRamble's analysis doesn't show anything like that number. Swiss Ramble shows our gross transfer spend as ~£310m since our stadium was open - £136m (gross) in financial year 2020, £110m (gross) in financial year 2021 and £46m(net) this year (financial year 2022) - I have assumed about £60m gross for that window. Total net amount is about £250m. Or ~£83m per window (which I still think is ample and should allow us to be in the top 6 and pushing for top 4 if sustained for the next 5 years).

Some interesting bits and pieces from the accounts:

Last season we were about £120m down on match day revenue and probably £10-20m down commercial income. These will come back in the 2022 figures. There are also two new sponsorships (Cinch and Getir) that will show in the next set of numbers. My guess is perhaps as much as £15m combined. TV and media revenue is likely to reduce in 2022 due to numbers from 2020 being pulled into 2021 and also Europa Conference being worth less than Europa (I would estimate £145m of revenue in 2022 versus 205m in 2021 as a result of these two factors.

I think we can therefore expect our revenue number in 2022 to be around £90m higher than our 2021 number, taking us to about £450m of revenue. Not quite as high as our record revenue year of 2019 but notable in the fact that it will be achieved without any major contribution from European football.

Against that though is the fact that our operating expenses were lower by around £44m in 2021 (I assume due to stadium being mostly closed) so that will jump back up. This will be partly offset by us likely having cut our wage bill this year (expensive players going and ones replacing them likely to be on lower salaries). Let's take a punt at a £10m reduction in wage bill this year. So we'll be about £90m of revenue up but also about £30m up on costs. Rather concerning though is that our cash position reduced by £78m in 2021, only expected really considering pretty much zero match day revenue and still a fair amount of money spent on player purchases.

It looks to me as though in normal times (assuming paying only interest and not capital on our loans, the owners not loading even more debt on the club, the club keeping a reasonably level cash flow position to what existed at end of 2021 period, having a wage to turnover ratio at around 50% and assuming the club achieves Europa League participation) our club can probably afford to invest around £70m net per season on player purchases. A stadium naming rights deal might be able to take that amount to £80m to £90m, maximising non football events at the stadium might be able to take that up another £10 - £20m. £100m net investment into the playing squad at THFC is entirely feasible without us even having CL football just as long as we can get the commercial deals done (might take a bit of swallowing his pride from Levy on the stadium naming rights).

In seasons where we reach the Champions League it might be prudent for the club to continue to spend a similar net amount on transfers and use surplus funds to improve our cash position so that we have reserves in case of unexpected items, i.e. the most serious case of relegation, or a collapse in the TV deal, or a pandemic. Or should a less impacting event occur such as not qualifying for the Europa League we could dip into cash reserves to maintain our level of spending). Increasing our cash balance would also give us the opportunity to pay down debt if and when the cost of debt increases.

In theory £450m+ of revenue in year 2022 should mean that we can operate a £225m wage bill. Given that we have probably reduced wages from the £205m number just posted for 2021 (I'm guessing we're running at £195m for 2022) that could give us some nice headroom to bring in Bosman transfers (i.e. we could get as many as 3 new £200k a week players without needing to sell/release anyone). Of course that assumes that Levy does have some ambition for us to become more competitive with our wage to turnover ratio.

We look reasonably well placed financially to be able to operate a decent, sustained investment into the first team squad. It won't allow us to compete on a level footing with Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd or even Liverpool but will allow us to compete on an equal (or more likely slightly better) footing than Arsenal and on a significantly better footing than any of the rest of the PL unless their owners sustain big capital injections.

It is clear though that we do need to get far better at selling players. We know that we can't compete with the 4 richest clubs in England so we should look to operate more like (e.g) Dortmund or Lyon, concentrating on young players, supplemented with the odd experienced head and looking to fund the next batch of promising young players by selling a superstar every couple of years. Doing that just might allow us to hit the sweet spot in the odd season where some of the young players have come on and the superstar hasn't yet been sold and we can pick ourselves up a proper major trophy. Hopefully the club getting Paratici and apparently overhauling our scouting and recruitment network indicates that we are looking towards that model. I can see us agreeing deals for two or three Bosmans in the next two windows (we have the room on the wage budget), selling Kane and bringing in Vlahovic and then using any spare funds to bring in players who are under 23 (including a few who count as association trained).

Remember some of the tv money was deferred. It won't be as high in the next accounts.
 
I think some creative accounting may have been applied in Levy's statement there.... SwissRamble's analysis doesn't show anything like that number. Swiss Ramble shows our gross transfer spend as ~£310m since our stadium was open - £136m (gross) in financial year 2020, £110m (gross) in financial year 2021 and £46m(net) this year (financial year 2022) - I have assumed about £60m gross for that window. Total net amount is about £250m. Or ~£83m per window (which I still think is ample and should allow us to be in the top 6 and pushing for top 4 if sustained for the next 5 years).

Some interesting bits and pieces from the accounts:

Last season we were about £120m down on match day revenue and probably £10-20m down commercial income. These will come back in the 2022 figures. There are also two new sponsorships (Cinch and Getir) that will show in the next set of numbers. My guess is perhaps as much as £15m combined. TV and media revenue is likely to reduce in 2022 due to numbers from 2020 being pulled into 2021 and also Europa Conference being worth less than Europa (I would estimate £145m of revenue in 2022 versus 205m in 2021 as a result of these two factors.

I think we can therefore expect our revenue number in 2022 to be around £90m higher than our 2021 number, taking us to about £450m of revenue. Not quite as high as our record revenue year of 2019 but notable in the fact that it will be achieved without any major contribution from European football.

Against that though is the fact that our operating expenses were lower by around £44m in 2021 (I assume due to stadium being mostly closed) so that will jump back up. This will be partly offset by us likely having cut our wage bill this year (expensive players going and ones replacing them likely to be on lower salaries). Let's take a punt at a £10m reduction in wage bill this year. So we'll be about £90m of revenue up but also about £30m up on costs. Rather concerning though is that our cash position reduced by £78m in 2021, only expected really considering pretty much zero match day revenue and still a fair amount of money spent on player purchases.

It looks to me as though in normal times (assuming paying only interest and not capital on our loans, the owners not loading even more debt on the club, the club keeping a reasonably level cash flow position to what existed at end of 2021 period, having a wage to turnover ratio at around 50% and assuming the club achieves Europa League participation) our club can probably afford to invest around £70m net per season on player purchases. A stadium naming rights deal might be able to take that amount to £80m to £90m, maximising non football events at the stadium might be able to take that up another £10 - £20m. £100m net investment into the playing squad at THFC is entirely feasible without us even having CL football just as long as we can get the commercial deals done (might take a bit of swallowing his pride from Levy on the stadium naming rights).

In seasons where we reach the Champions League it might be prudent for the club to continue to spend a similar net amount on transfers and use surplus funds to improve our cash position so that we have reserves in case of unexpected items, i.e. the most serious case of relegation, or a collapse in the TV deal, or a pandemic. Or should a less impacting event occur such as not qualifying for the Europa League we could dip into cash reserves to maintain our level of spending). Increasing our cash balance would also give us the opportunity to pay down debt if and when the cost of debt increases.

In theory £450m+ of revenue in year 2022 should mean that we can operate a £225m wage bill. Given that we have probably reduced wages from the £205m number just posted for 2021 (I'm guessing we're running at £195m for 2022) that could give us some nice headroom to bring in Bosman transfers (i.e. we could get as many as 3 new £200k a week players without needing to sell/release anyone). Of course that assumes that Levy does have some ambition for us to become more competitive with our wage to turnover ratio.

We look reasonably well placed financially to be able to operate a decent, sustained investment into the first team squad. It won't allow us to compete on a level footing with Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd or even Liverpool but will allow us to compete on an equal (or more likely slightly better) footing than Arsenal and on a significantly better footing than any of the rest of the PL unless their owners sustain big capital injections.

It is clear though that we do need to get far better at selling players. We know that we can't compete with the 4 richest clubs in England so we should look to operate more like (e.g) Dortmund or Lyon, concentrating on young players, supplemented with the odd experienced head and looking to fund the next batch of promising young players by selling a superstar every couple of years. Doing that just might allow us to hit the sweet spot in the odd season where some of the young players have come on and the superstar hasn't yet been sold and we can pick ourselves up a proper major trophy. Hopefully the club getting Paratici and apparently overhauling our scouting and recruitment network indicates that we are looking towards that model. I can see us agreeing deals for two or three Bosmans in the next two windows (we have the room on the wage budget), selling Kane and bringing in Vlahovic and then using any spare funds to bring in players who are under 23 (including a few who count as association trained).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Interesting takes as usual.

I was going to post this in the pod thread following this week’s episode - there’s nothing wrong, in my eyes, in being a Dortmund. As long as we are a Dortmund, if that makes sense?
 
£100m net investment into the playing squad at THFC is entirely feasible without us even having CL football

We know that we can't compete with the 4 richest clubs in England

If we can spend about £100m net each year on players, and spend most of it on the right players, we can be competitive.
Do we know how much net they spend on players each year?
 
If we can spend about £100m net each year on players, and spend most of it on the right players, we can be competitive.
Do we know how much net they spend on players each year?
Obviously you have to combine that with someone that is a talented manager. Poch worked on zero net spend because he was magic. £100m net spend can be blown if you're for example OGS, so we still have to be careful (eg a £50m dud is still a big pill to swallow for us) , the hope for us is having £100m to spend AND a talented manager is the sweet spot.

And we might just have that now.
 
Obviously you have to combine that with someone that is a talented manager. Poch worked on zero net spend because he was magic. £100m net spend can be blown if you're for example OGS, so we still have to be careful (eg a £50m dud is still a big pill to swallow for us) , the hope for us is having £100m to spend AND a talented manager is the sweet spot.

And we might just have that now.
Indeed…. Our transfer funds probably have to be spent buying 4 or 5 players aged between 18 and 22. If two in each cohort can become first team starters and one a squad player then we’ve cracked it. I think we will also have to make much better use of the loan system to get our young players experience of men’s football. The Championship would be a great finishing school for many young overseas players though it might be difficult to persuade some to drop down a league.

£100m is assuming a few things that are not in place for us at present though…. Europa League and a stadium naming rights partner.
 
Indeed…. Our transfer funds probably have to be spent buying 4 or 5 players aged between 18 and 22. If two in each cohort can become first team starters and one a squad player then we’ve cracked it. I think we will also have to make much better use of the loan system to get our young players experience of men’s football. The Championship would be a great finishing school for many young overseas players though it might be difficult to persuade some to drop down a league.

£100m is assuming a few things that are not in place for us at present though…. Europa League and a stadium naming rights partner.

This risible scheme of Tracy Crouch’s, where premiership clubs which people are interested in are taxed on transfer fees, so that lower league clubs beloved of only two men and a dog can be saved from bankruptcy, and so that the people who live near their bleak pitches are saved from new houses and supermarkets. Maybe some of that Danegeld could be offset against the loans you talk of? It would be worth lobbying for, and I’m sure that Levy could run rings round DCMS in the negotiations by which this absurd fan-led special pleading turns into legislation.
 
Indeed…. Our transfer funds probably have to be spent buying 4 or 5 players aged between 18 and 22. If two in each cohort can become first team starters and one a squad player then we’ve cracked it. I think we will also have to make much better use of the loan system to get our young players experience of men’s football. The Championship would be a great finishing school for many young overseas players though it might be difficult to persuade some to drop down a league.

£100m is assuming a few things that are not in place for us at present though…. Europa League and a stadium naming rights partner.
The other thing we will have to consider is shedding a player, that is high value, once in a while to supplement evolution of a team or trust a managers/dof wishes.
 
This risible scheme of Tracy Crouch’s, where premiership clubs which people are interested in are taxed on transfer fees, so that lower league clubs beloved of only two men and a dog can be saved from bankruptcy, and so that the people who live near their bleak pitches are saved from new houses and supermarkets. Maybe some of that Danegeld could be offset against the loans you talk of? It would be worth lobbying for, and I’m sure that Levy could run rings round DCMS in the negotiations by which this absurd fan-led special pleading turns into legislation.

What scheme are you talking about?

I know uefa are talking about a salary cap with a luxury tax. The premier league would be expected to follow suit. Not to do with the fan led review though.

Edit - found it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087
 
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ndombele 54
Lo Celso 14.5 + 28 = 42.5
Clarke 9
Sessengnon 24
Bergwijn 27
Reggie 27
Hojberg 15
Doherty 15
Rodon 11
Gill 22
Royal 22
Sarr. 15
Romero loan fee 42?

then loan fees of Bale 0, Vinny 3 Golini loan 13?and Fernandez. 4 it can’t be far off 400m can it? With not a great deal coming back in from sales. Not bad during a pandemic.

A few of us have said for a while now that the issues not the money being spent, but on what it’s being spent on. Hopefully Paratici will sort that out. Doesn’t seem to be what people want to hear though.
400m didn’t feel right to me so I checked on here!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/alletransfers/verein/148

So I’ve made it 290m across 3 windows but has included fees for Romero or Gollini, but if we are committed to buy then that’s another 57 which takes us to 356, we’ve brought in around 130.

so depending how you want to spin it you could say we’ve actually spent 160 net in 4 seasons, or 356 in 3, which may stretch to 400 if agent fees aren’t included in transfermarkt?
 
It would be very sexy if our legitimate efforts to create an opportunity to raise non matchday income that put the playing squad back a couple of years becomes something the cash dopers use as a loophole which makes the powers that be bring in a rule so that we can’t benefit from it!
 
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