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Giovani Lo Celso

Mulletperm said:
I didn't watch the Vitesse game. How did Lo Celso do?
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As poorly as the rest of them. The problem is that I don't really see much of an upside with him as a player. We've paid big money for a midfield player who has no pace, no real strength or physicality, no exceptional ball skills and who completely refuses to use his right foot so always has 50% of the pitch cut off to him in terms of passes. His potential upside is MASSIVELY lower than Ndombele's and is rightly playing for our second 11 instead of our first team.
 
Finney Is Back said:
As poorly as the rest of them. The problem is that I don't really see much of an upside with him as a player. We've paid big money for a midfield player who has no pace, no real strength or physicality, no exceptional ball skills and who completely refuses to use his right foot so always has 50% of the pitch cut off to him in terms of passes. His potential upside is MASSIVELY lower than Ndombele's and is rightly playing for our second 11 instead of our first team.
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I know that Bruno Fernandes would’ve cost quite a bit more (could’ve used the £40m we spunked on Sessegnon and Clarke plus the Gedson loan fee) but can’t help thinking that Pochettino’s rebuild might’ve been less painful if we’d got that deal done.
 
Finney Is Back said:
As poorly as the rest of them. The problem is that I don't really see much of an upside with him as a player. We've paid big money for a midfield player who has no pace, no real strength or physicality, no exceptional ball skills and who completely refuses to use his right foot so always has 50% of the pitch cut off to him in terms of passes. His potential upside is MASSIVELY lower than Ndombele's and is rightly playing for our second 11 instead of our first team.
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Our transfer committee have been appalling.
 
SteveAWOL said:
I know that Bruno Fernandes would’ve cost quite a bit more (could’ve used the £40m we spunked on Sessegnon and Clarke plus the Gedson loan fee) but can’t help thinking that Pochettino’s rebuild might’ve been less painful if we’d got that deal done.
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Bruno would have been the Eriksen replacement. We could have contributed playing the same way without much disruption. I remember that summer being s little confused with the players we went after.

Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bruno as additions never seemed to make a lot of sense, but 2 of the former with Bruno did more so. Towards the end of that window it did seem like we wanted all three though. I'd love to find out what really happened and what was the real plan. Were Ndombele Nd Lo Celso bought for either side of the diamond with Bruno intended as the pont man. It's just about the only way I think any of it could make sense and fit.
 
Finney Is Back said:
As poorly as the rest of them. The problem is that I don't really see much of an upside with him as a player. We've paid big money for a midfield player who has no pace, no real strength or physicality, no exceptional ball skills and who completely refuses to use his right foot so always has 50% of the pitch cut off to him in terms of passes. His potential upside is MASSIVELY lower than Ndombele's and is rightly playing for our second 11 instead of our first team.
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His upside has been pretty clear when he's had runs in the team when fit and in form.

Ndombele is rightly in the team ahead of him and I think Ndombele has the higher ceiling. But Lo Celso has clear quality that I hope we get to see more of as the season progresses.
 
braineclipse said:
His upside has been pretty clear when he's had runs in the team when fit and in form.

Ndombele is rightly in the team ahead of him and I think Ndombele has the higher ceiling. But Lo Celso has clear quality that I hope we get to see more of as the season progresses.
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Ndombele should have been dropped after the Villa game
He wasn’t and played really well vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine
We will see tomorrow what he is like against a better side in a real battle
 
We have yet to see the best of lo Celso ( just flashes so far) but there is a player there and IF he can stay fit and get played in is best posistion ( not out wide) i think he will be very good.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ndombele should have been dropped after the Villa game
He wasn’t and played really well vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine
We will see tomorrow what he is like against a better side in a real battle
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Strong disagree. Seems like Nuno disagreed too.

Was utterly unsurprised about Ndombele doing well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. We'll see how he does in the coming games.
 
braineclipse said:
Strong disagree. Seems like Nuno disagreed too.

Was utterly unsurprised about Ndombele doing well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. We'll see how he does in the coming games.
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On what basis do you disagree?
He was woeful vs Villa
I mean statistically and what i saw at the game
He was great vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine though (but their awful, and maybe Villa are now judging by last nights showing)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
On what basis do you disagree?
He was woeful vs Villa
I mean statistically and what i saw at the game
He was great vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine though (but their awful, and maybe Villa are now judging by last nights showing)
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Been over this repeatedly in the Ndombele thread, but...

I don't really have any doubts about Ndombele on the ball. He'll have poor games, but if we get him the ball in even decent positions he'll deliver. His talent and ability is for me beyond question.

There are essentially two ways for him to fail. Not doing enough defensively because of a lack of stamina, effort or attitude, whatever. Or, because we don't get him the ball in decent areas.

Villa game he was poor on the ball, that happens, but the other factors were there. Work rate, getting on the ball in good areas. Kept trying. The kind of "don't worry, I'll come good" kind of performance I like to see from a talented player.
 
braineclipse said:
Been over this repeatedly in the Ndombele thread, but...

I don't really have any doubts about Ndombele on the ball. He'll have poor games, but if we get him the ball in even decent positions he'll deliver. His talent and ability is for me beyond question.

There are essentially two ways for him to fail. Not doing enough defensively because of a lack of stamina, effort or attitude, whatever. Or, because we don't get him the ball in decent areas.

Villa game he was poor on the ball, that happens, but the other factors were there. Work rate, getting on the ball in good areas. Kept trying. The kind of "don't worry, I'll come good" kind of performance I like to see from a talented player.
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He was IMO in that game in the wrong positions a lot and got all the basics wrong
Vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine he had so much time it was bonkers
 
braineclipse said:
Been over this repeatedly in the Ndombele thread, but...

I don't really have any doubts about Ndombele on the ball. He'll have poor games, but if we get him the ball in even decent positions he'll deliver. His talent and ability is for me beyond question.

There are essentially two ways for him to fail. Not doing enough defensively because of a lack of stamina, effort or attitude, whatever. Or, because we don't get him the ball in decent areas.

Villa game he was poor on the ball, that happens, but the other factors were there. Work rate, getting on the ball in good areas. Kept trying. The kind of "don't worry, I'll come good" kind of performance I like to see from a talented player.
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I'm kind of in agreement with you on this. He was poor in the villa game but not so much so that it negates his previously decent to good performances this season.

All the furore felt so reactionary. He is going to have poor games, it is going to happen. He'll have good ones also. I'd understand it moreso if we had another top quality player who he is keeping on the bench but we don't really have that. I like GLC but I expect pretty much the same complaints if he were the one starting.
 
braineclipse said:
Been over this repeatedly in the Ndombele thread, but...

I don't really have any doubts about Ndombele on the ball. He'll have poor games, but if we get him the ball in even decent positions he'll deliver. His talent and ability is for me beyond question.

There are essentially two ways for him to fail. Not doing enough defensively because of a lack of stamina, effort or attitude, whatever. Or, because we don't get him the ball in decent areas.

Villa game he was poor on the ball, that happens, but the other factors were there. Work rate, getting on the ball in good areas. Kept trying. The kind of "don't worry, I'll come good" kind of performance I like to see from a talented player.
Click to expand...

Agree, if we're gonna play with a #10 whoever starts will have bad days. If they're trying though I don't see the issue with them getting another go or two. I thought he put in a shift v Villa even though he was poor. Versus Saudi Sportswashing Machine he continued the work rate and upped to productivity.

Le Celso on Thursday did neither, lost the ball and then walked about. I'd rather play the fatman who is doing the right things but has the radar off, than Le Celso or Alli who I have no idea what they're doing. I still think Le Celso is more suited for CM anyway.
 
Bishop said:
Bruno would have been the Eriksen replacement. We could have contributed playing the same way without much disruption. I remember that summer being s little confused with the players we went after.

Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bruno as additions never seemed to make a lot of sense, but 2 of the former with Bruno did more so. Towards the end of that window it did seem like we wanted all three though. I'd love to find out what really happened and what was the real plan. Were Ndombele Nd Lo Celso bought for either side of the diamond with Bruno intended as the pont man. It's just about the only way I think any of it could make sense and fit.
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I think they made perfect sense for the diamond midfield that Pochettino wanted. I suspect that he wanted to use Dier at the base of that (and would likely have tried to upgrade him in a later window).
 
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