Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubaiSpur]

Radizzani is worth about the same as Joe Lewis so may be another who doesn't want to sell for anything other than a big number.

Is he? I thought he wasn't even a billionaire - his net worth including Leeds was something like 500m/600m, wasn't it?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

True in part, but I also think there's a real estate angle to it. Being the owners of the sole PL football club in a city probably affords them all sorts of local exposure that probably eases the wheels of a lot of real estate investment in the UK, and in those areas specifically. For that, local catchment matters. the Abu Dhabi Investment Group put aside 1bn for real estate development in Manchester a while ago, nearly as much as they've put into City since 2008 - I have no doubt the Saudis will follow that model for Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

100%
They will now attempt to finish the stadium at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and probably build a hospital to do it (the ground is half high, half low because of the hospital)
Then they can claim new £££ and as a one club city people will go

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There were penalties in place in the few several years after they moved to the Olympic stadium. I think those have now expired.
I get why the Saudi's were interested in Saudi Sportswashing Machine.... A team like them in a one club city is likely to be more attractive than the 4th most popular London club. Next on the list though could be West Ham who have a location advantage over many other clubs, while being a lot cheaper than Spurs, Arsenal or Chelsea.

Spam would be a great buy for someone
Renting the stadium is no different to city
I wonder if the London thing actually puts people off
London as a place I’d loved and hated in equal measure and is almost a country in its own rights

but as we have discussed before no one is buying us For the silly money we value ourselves at

and without investment fans won’t go as much as the team will become inferior (seen that already this season)

So the income drops and the club then has less to spend but ultimately becomes less valuable

 

[DubaiSpur]

but as we have discussed before no one is buying us For the silly money we value ourselves at

and without investment fans won’t go as much as the team will become inferior (seen that already this season)

So the income drops and the club then has less to spend but ultimately becomes less valuable

Pretty much - the 53,000-odd attendance on the weekend must have been an unpleasant surprise for Levy. Part of that is probably down to fuel shortages, lineups and the continuing pandemic, but I wonder if there's also just a drop in demand more generally given those circumstances.

The club that Poch built is gone - we are now a Europa Conference League outfit playing in a gigantic Champions-League calibre stadium. Jonathan Wilson described it best in the Graun - it's all got an air of Florence Foster Jenkins at Carnegie Hall about it.

And the thing is, while the stadium may wow you for a while, you don't go to games to admire the architecture - you go, I would hope, to watch the damn team, which has definitely declined rapidly.

Outside of the 'legacy fans' the club derided in its ESL schemes, a lot of the fanbase might not have the sunken costs needed to keep going every weekend amidst difficult economic times and continuing pandemic woes. And the only thing that would reverse that is on-pitch success - which in turn comes from a well-built and well-invested-in squad with a good coach.

Arsenal just invested 200m to back Arteta - even Stan Kroenke finally reached into his pocket to revitalize his club. Levy and Lewis are the sole holdouts - useless craven deadweights in a league of increasingly ambitious owners. And if they' re not careful, they may be sucked into that very cycle you describe, and their dreams of 3bn for Spurs will be just that - dreams.

 

[Bullet]

inevitable under the useless deadweight chancers with no connection to the club

... ... ...


useless craven deadweights

If you made your good, interesting, intelligent points without sliding in these stupid, uninteresting, macaronic digs, more people would read and interact with you.

 

[Baleforce]

I'm going to the stadium on Sunday and we are not even playing, can't wait to show my uncle the pints of Beavertown that pour from the bottom up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Only way we get sold is if someone pays a price that clears the debt too
The club has the scope to make probably in the region of £300m a year more than we currently do looking at other clubs
Without any debt and that extra income the owners could invest £200m a year and still make some money

 

[DubaiSpur]

If you made your good, interesting, intelligent points without sliding in these stupid, uninteresting, macaronic digs, more people would read and interact with you.

Mate, all due respect, and I do respect your views - but all you usually do is pick up on those descriptors I keep using.

There are a growing number of folks sick of ENIC, me definitely included. Some other folks are angry enough about our views to occasionally fling abuse our way, here and elsewhere (very rarely here, to GG's credit). I refuse to accept that, but I try to engage with everyone regardless - often their points are broader than their anger about the rhetoric used about ENIC, and worth engaging with.

If you find some bits of my posts interesting, please engage with those bits - I'd be happy to chat, as ever. But if you find my descriptions of ENIC unhelpful, just don't engage with them - I'm certainly not forcing you to read them!

On my end, I am done with ENIC, and describing them as I do is basically par for the course - actually, probably good for my mental health, since it gets the anger out of my system and lets me move on with my day, serene as a sunset.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

I think yesterday was the day our dream died, if it hadn't already.

There are now three mega rich clubs who have huge resources behind them in their attempt to win trophies before you look at Man Utd. In addition to that this club is heading towards civil war. Whilst the THST are taken as seriously as a fart in lift, they have valid concerns. We have a team that has so little creativity that, in the words of Xpressions, 'they can't even create a new document in Microsoft Word' and owners 'investing' in the club in a way that is more akin to the likes of the British East India Company and Apple, than what they allude to, success on the pitch.

Whilst some believe that this quagmire is simply another example of ENIC's boom and bust model and that Levy is doing the best he can, I am left wishing I could be as positive. We had a great opportunity to end the trophy drought and we blew it. Then, to add insult to injury, when in the words of the man who got them there 'the nice new house needs nice furniture' they were left bemused and went for the quick fix, which has now blown up in their faces with each PR stunt looking like the Hindenburg crashing into the Titanic. Yes, there has been external factors such as clubs with far nore money, the UK leaving the EU and the COVID-19 pandemic but this rut the started within. Poor decisions such as not signing the players Poch wsmted in 2016, selling Mousa Dembele without an immediate replacement of or near the same impact lined up - nothing new given the Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale sales - whilst our creative spark was stalling on a new deal. Hindsight is a beautiful thing and the sad and recently shocking physical state of both players who left either side of Poch's departure could be seen as a blessing in disguise but they still haven't been replaced with their departures helping explain the fall off the cliff from February 2019 onwards.

Those who support ENIC, usually do so more in response to their moral compass when viewing clubs with money throwing owners who raise human rights concerns (which I do understand and lean towards) and or simply because they are better than Sugar. Yet, the irony is that I'd be surprised if Joe Lewis was found in his billionaire ways to be morally sound and if they could ENIC would happily sell us to human rights abusers so long as the price is met whilst being the same thing but a different facade to Sugar, frugality, the only difference being one was an individual and other is not.

There's no doubt that Levy and ENIC have grown this club, from being starved of European football and living in the past to Europe being the norm and even challenging for the biggest prizes. But the time has come for them to go. I know theose who support ENIC will try find any angle to undermine, dismiss or even mock us who long for new owners but the reality is they are now in the minority. The majority note the investment in infrastructure coinciding with impressive commercial growth but also note the most expensive season tickets going and one League Cup in twenty years. To put it simply ENIC are a half way house and for this to not be one anymore and push on to the next level (trophies), they need to be treated the same way as they have the managers and be replaced by owners whose sole focus is success on the pitch.

 

[braineclipse]

I think yesterday was the day our dream died, if it hadn't already.

There are now three mega rich clubs who have huge resources behind them in their attempt to win trophies before you look at Man Utd. In addition to that this club is heading towards civil war. Whilst the THST are taken as seriously as a fart in lift, they have valid concerns. We have a team that has so little creativity that, in the words of Xpressions, 'they can't even create a new document in Microsoft Word' and owners 'investing' in the club in a way that is more akin to the likes of the British East India Company and Apple, than what they allude to, success on the pitch.

Whilst some believe that this quagmire is simply another example of ENIC's boom and bust model and that Levy is doing the best he can, I am left wishing I could be as positive. We had a great opportunity to end the trophy drought and we blew it. Then, to add insult to injury, when in the words of the man who got them there 'the nice new house needs nice furniture' they were left bemused and went for the quick fix, which has now blown up in their faces with each PR stunt looking like the Hindenburg crashing into the Titanic. Yes, there has been external factors such as clubs with far nore money, the UK leaving the EU and the COVID-19 pandemic but this rut the started within. Poor decisions such as not signing the players Poch wsmted in 2016, selling Mousa Dembele without an immediate replacement of or near the same impact lined up - nothing new given the Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale sales - whilst our creative spark was stalling on a new deal. Hindsight is a beautiful thing and the sad and recently shocking physical state of both players who left either side of Poch's departure could be seen as a blessing in disguise but they still haven't been replaced with their departures helping explain the fall off the cliff from February 2019 onwards.

Those who support ENIC, usually do so more in response to their moral compass when viewing clubs with money throwing owners who raise human rights concerns (which I do understand and lean towards) and or simply because they are better than Sugar. Yet, the irony is that I'd be surprised if Joe Lewis was found in his billionaire ways to be morally sound and if they could ENIC would happily sell us to human rights abusers so long as the price is met whilst being the same thing but a different facade to Sugar, frugality, the only difference being one was an individual and other is not.

There's no doubt that Levy and ENIC have grown this club, from being starved of European football and living in the past to Europe being the norm and even challenging for the biggest prizes. But the time has come for them to go. I know theose who support ENIC will try find any angle to undermine, dismiss or even mock us who long for new owners but the reality is they are now in the minority. The majority note the investment in infrastructure coinciding with impressive commercial growth but also note the most expensive season tickets going and one League Cup in twenty years. To put it simply ENIC are a half way house and for this to not be one anymore and push on to the next level (trophies), they need to be treated the same way as they have the managers and be replaced by owners whose sole focus is success on the pitch.

The death of our dream has been pronounced a lot of times. I'll wait and see.

This is in part a response to your post, but also a wider point here and there. Not saying you're saying all I'm complaining about.

If we assume this was always coming at some point the only sensible thing to do was to invest in infrastructure to increase our cash flow. I'm glad we did. Imagine the Saudi Sportswashing Machine news, but without us having our new stadium, what would that mean for our dreams.

I'm not really in the habit of defending ENIC, but I do defend Levy quite a bit. Very rarely by pointing to a moral high ground iirc. Because it's a question of values and priorities between different values. Unsurprisingly different people don't do that in the same way and there aren't a lot of clear cut right or wrong answers.

Those that are critical of our ownership usually end up pointing to a lack of investment of their own money into players. I don't think arguing against that by saying, no, I don't want that for my club is a poor point to make. To me it's a bit of a dead argument for reasons above.

Mistakes have certainly been made, by Levy, Hitchen, Pochettino and others.

The quote from Pochettino about a painful rebuild keeps being brought up, and rightly so. But sometimes it seems like the argument is being made that Levy should have made it so that it wasn't a painful rebuild. These things are painful, they are difficult, mistakes will be made. A painful rebuild is by definition not painless.

Fewer mistakes and it would have been less painful. That would have been good, but I think Levy is held to an extremely high standard. Whereas Pochettino for example more rarely is. And the counterfactual that gets made or implied, "if he had only done X, Y, and Z then..." seems to me sometimes to be made too strongly. We simply have no way of knowing how things would have panned out. A lot of the later year Pochettino signings failed to live up to expectations, for various reasons. But it's seemingly assumed that the signings that could have been made would have worked out? And that money spent for them would have impacted other signings that Pochettino wanted.

Then of course we're back at "invest more". But as I said, that's where that conversation ends up at a dead end.

I also think it gets understated how new ownership is a massive gamble. Yes, there's potential for a new owner to transform the club on the pitch, and if you accept the downsides of a City or Chelsea style owner that's fine to want. But if you want ENIC out the reality is that you don't know who will replace them. What's more likely, a City/Chelsea type success, or something much less successful. I could list examples of poor ownership and club management, but I don't think that's necessay.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think yesterday was the day our dream died, if it hadn't already.

There are now three mega rich clubs who have huge resources behind them in their attempt to win trophies before you look at Man Utd. In addition to that this club is heading towards civil war. Whilst the THST are taken as seriously as a fart in lift, they have valid concerns. We have a team that has so little creativity that, in the words of Xpressions, 'they can't even create a new document in Microsoft Word' and owners 'investing' in the club in a way that is more akin to the likes of the British East India Company and Apple, than what they allude to, success on the pitch.

Whilst some believe that this quagmire is simply another example of ENIC's boom and bust model and that Levy is doing the best he can, I am left wishing I could be as positive. We had a great opportunity to end the trophy drought and we blew it. Then, to add insult to injury, when in the words of the man who got them there 'the nice new house needs nice furniture' they were left bemused and went for the quick fix, which has now blown up in their faces with each PR stunt looking like the Hindenburg crashing into the Titanic. Yes, there has been external factors such as clubs with far nore money, the UK leaving the EU and the COVID-19 pandemic but this rut the started within. Poor decisions such as not signing the players Poch wsmted in 2016, selling Mousa Dembele without an immediate replacement of or near the same impact lined up - nothing new given the Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale sales - whilst our creative spark was stalling on a new deal. Hindsight is a beautiful thing and the sad and recently shocking physical state of both players who left either side of Poch's departure could be seen as a blessing in disguise but they still haven't been replaced with their departures helping explain the fall off the cliff from February 2019 onwards.

Those who support ENIC, usually do so more in response to their moral compass when viewing clubs with money throwing owners who raise human rights concerns (which I do understand and lean towards) and or simply because they are better than Sugar. Yet, the irony is that I'd be surprised if Joe Lewis was found in his billionaire ways to be morally sound and if they could ENIC would happily sell us to human rights abusers so long as the price is met whilst being the same thing but a different facade to Sugar, frugality, the only difference being one was an individual and other is not.

There's no doubt that Levy and ENIC have grown this club, from being starved of European football and living in the past to Europe being the norm and even challenging for the biggest prizes. But the time has come for them to go. I know theose who support ENIC will try find any angle to undermine, dismiss or even mock us who long for new owners but the reality is they are now in the minority. The majority note the investment in infrastructure coinciding with impressive commercial growth but also note the most expensive season tickets going and one League Cup in twenty years. To put it simply ENIC are a half way house and for this to not be one anymore and push on to the next level (trophies), they need to be treated the same way as they have the managers and be replaced by owners whose sole focus is success on the pitch.

But those owners won’t buy Tottenham when there is cheaper options out there
They would be mental to even consider buying us
Yesterday has made me reconsider buying my season ticket
Not because of Tottenham though, but because of football
We showed only a few years ago that any team can get the biggest finals
We now can’t even get into that comp
Add in the new money and it’s got harder to the point it’s almost gonna be impossible
We will have a top 2 oil clubs and then clubs fighting for 3rd and 4th
The cups will be out of bounds as those two teams will have the squad depth to play the reserves there to win those
My mate said last night out best bet know is the europa cup if we qualify as they won’t buy that
Football without competition is dull. There is no risk and no entertainment

 

[spursfan1976]

Post over on Spurs Community saying we turned down a Saudi takeover just before the CL final. (credited to an ITK so prob a load of manure)

not sure what thread this goes in as theres no itk thread, and its a got a bit of everything
BEN via NFE: just been speaking to caps lock Ben I almost throttled him when he told me to 'get behind Daniel' he seems to be somewhat in the know ive known him many years and i know he has ears in the club his latest goss to me was on the lines of we turned down 2.4 billion from saudis to buy the club before the CL final, nuno will not las the season, potter turned us down and when lewis dies his daughter will take over more news as it comes in


https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/enic.131362/post-7629283

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The death of our dream has been pronounced a lot of times. I'll wait and see.

This is in part a response to your post, but also a wider point here and there. Not saying you're saying all I'm complaining about.

If we assume this was always coming at some point the only sensible thing to do was to invest in infrastructure to increase our cash flow. I'm glad we did. Imagine the Saudi Sportswashing Machine news, but without us having our new stadium, what would that mean for our dreams.

I'm not really in the habit of defending ENIC, but I do defend Levy quite a bit. Very rarely by pointing to a moral high ground iirc. Because it's a question of values and priorities between different values. Unsurprisingly different people don't do that in the same way and there aren't a lot of clear cut right or wrong answers.

Those that are critical of our ownership usually end up pointing to a lack of investment of their own money into players. I don't think arguing against that by saying, no, I don't want that for my club is a poor point to make. To me it's a bit of a dead argument for reasons above.

Mistakes have certainly been made, by Levy, Hitchen, Pochettino and others.

The quote from Pochettino about a painful rebuild keeps being brought up, and rightly so. But sometimes it seems like the argument is being made that Levy should have made it so that it wasn't a painful rebuild. These things are painful, they are difficult, mistakes will be made. A painful rebuild is by definition not painless.

Fewer mistakes and it would have been less painful. That would have been good, but I think Levy is held to an extremely high standard. Whereas Pochettino for example more rarely is. And the counterfactual that gets made or implied, "if he had only done X, Y, and Z then..." seems to me sometimes to be made too strongly. We simply have no way of knowing how things would have panned out. A lot of the later year Pochettino signings failed to live up to expectations, for various reasons. But it's seemingly assumed that the signings that could have been made would have worked out? And that money spent for them would have impacted other signings that Pochettino wanted.

Then of course we're back at "invest more". But as I said, that's where that conversation ends up at a dead end.

I also think it gets understated how new ownership is a massive gamble. Yes, there's potential for a new owner to transform the club on the pitch, and if you accept the downsides of a City or Chelsea style owner that's fine to want. But if you want ENIC out the reality is that you don't know who will replace them. What's more likely, a City/Chelsea type success, or something much less successful. I could list examples of poor ownership and club management, but I don't think that's necessay.

For someone to risk £3.5b on the club they have to be:
A) mega wealthy
B) a fan as we’re not worth the asking price in any terms

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Post over on Spurs Community saying we turned down a Saudi takeover just before the CL final. (credited to an ITK so prob a load of manure)

not sure what thread this goes in as theres no itk thread, and its a got a bit of everything
BEN via NFE: just been speaking to caps lock Ben I almost throttled him when he told me to 'get behind Daniel' he seems to be somewhat in the know ive known him many years and i know he has ears in the club his latest goss to me was on the lines of we turned down 2.4 billion from saudis to buy the club before the CL final, nuno will not las the season, potter turned us down and when lewis dies his daughter will take over more news as it comes in


https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/enic.131362/post-7629283

Saudis wanted to buy into the club
That was turned down
I do find it odd that Saudis would want a club known for being Jewish

 

[Jurgen the German]

For someone to risk £3.5b on the club they have to be:
A) mega wealthy
B) a fan as we’re not worth the asking price in any terms

Does make you wonder how on Earth ENIC have come to that valuation. We have a brilliant new stadium but we are NOT one of the top 10 biggest clubs in the world, we have won almost diddly squat in the last 25 years, we are not in the CL and can’t be classed as CL regulars.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Does make you wonder how on Earth ENIC have come to that valuation. We have a brilliant new stadium but we are NOT one of the top 10 biggest clubs in the world, we have won almost diddly squat in the last 25 years, we are not in the CL and can’t be classed as CL regulars.

Honestly… class As I reckon
The players are worth around £500m
The property’s worth £1.2b (with a debt of a £b roughly)
Then you have the London and prem factor
I’d value us at about 2.5b with the debt paid off myself

@Finney Is Back is the investment banker and we have brainstormed this as much as you can on a forum

if the club are waiting for online broadcasting to take off they need to make sure there is a fan base motivated for it too… that’s waning at our club

selling at 2.5b and paying off their debt would still give us a £b profit

 

[lurker of old]

OK my tuppence worth.
We now have a financial model which is bringing in revenue via American football, boxing, (and next year, music), in a way no other club has. Delayed by Covid of course but now bringing in real cash, which will be invested in the team.
All this is the vision of owners who do not deserve the bile spewed out by some on here.
What we have now is a new phase as Paratici starts to put together a team which can compete and get back in the CL. Frustrating that this season won't be the "finished thing", but look over a longer timeframe and we will be back in the mix....Paratici doesn't want to play in the Europa Conference any more than Levy does or the fans do.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Apparently not....
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/...Saudi Sportswashing Machine-takeover-21708774

Ah apologies, I was looking at the combined net worth of the owners…. 37% of Leeds is owned by Denise York who is worth 4billion

 

[Finney Is Back]

Honestly… class As I reckon
The players are worth around £500m
The property’s worth £1.2b (with a debt of a £b roughly)
Then you have the London and prem factor
I’d value us at about 2.5b with the debt paid off myself

@Finney Is Back is the investment banker and we have brainstormed this as much as you can on a forum

if the club are waiting for online broadcasting to take off they need to make sure there is a fan base motivated for it too… that’s waning at our club

selling at 2.5b and paying off their debt would still give us a £b profit

I know I can be a bit of a clam but there’s no need to call me that mate!

 

[Finney Is Back]

The death of our dream has been pronounced a lot of times. I'll wait and see.

This is in part a response to your post, but also a wider point here and there. Not saying you're saying all I'm complaining about.

If we assume this was always coming at some point the only sensible thing to do was to invest in infrastructure to increase our cash flow. I'm glad we did. Imagine the Saudi Sportswashing Machine news, but without us having our new stadium, what would that mean for our dreams.

I'm not really in the habit of defending ENIC, but I do defend Levy quite a bit. Very rarely by pointing to a moral high ground iirc. Because it's a question of values and priorities between different values. Unsurprisingly different people don't do that in the same way and there aren't a lot of clear cut right or wrong answers.

Those that are critical of our ownership usually end up pointing to a lack of investment of their own money into players. I don't think arguing against that by saying, no, I don't want that for my club is a poor point to make. To me it's a bit of a dead argument for reasons above.

Mistakes have certainly been made, by Levy, Hitchen, Pochettino and others.

The quote from Pochettino about a painful rebuild keeps being brought up, and rightly so. But sometimes it seems like the argument is being made that Levy should have made it so that it wasn't a painful rebuild. These things are painful, they are difficult, mistakes will be made. A painful rebuild is by definition not painless.

Fewer mistakes and it would have been less painful. That would have been good, but I think Levy is held to an extremely high standard. Whereas Pochettino for example more rarely is. And the counterfactual that gets made or implied, "if he had only done X, Y, and Z then..." seems to me sometimes to be made too strongly. We simply have no way of knowing how things would have panned out. A lot of the later year Pochettino signings failed to live up to expectations, for various reasons. But it's seemingly assumed that the signings that could have been made would have worked out? And that money spent for them would have impacted other signings that Pochettino wanted.

Then of course we're back at "invest more". But as I said, that's where that conversation ends up at a dead end.

I also think it gets understated how new ownership is a massive gamble. Yes, there's potential for a new owner to transform the club on the pitch, and if you accept the downsides of a City or Chelsea style owner that's fine to want. But if you want ENIC out the reality is that you don't know who will replace them. What's more likely, a City/Chelsea type success, or something much less successful. I could list examples of poor ownership and club management, but I don't think that's necessay.

“Those that are critical of our ownership usually end up pointing to a lack of investment of their own money into players. I don't think arguing against that by saying, no, I don't want that for my club is a poor point to make. To me it's a bit of a dead argument for reasons above”

Not me…. My issue is that the owners are happy to load debt on to the club to increase the valuation of what they own but never reinvest any of the huge amount of equity profit they have made back into the business. If we separate out the job that our chairman does (and gets handsomely rewarded for in terms of pay) our ‘owners’ do absolutely nothing for the club at all other than count up their increase in personal net worth. They are in the minority here in terms of PL owners, a majority of which have either invested their own funds or diluted their equity to inject cash into the business.