I guess that depends on your view of failing.
The vast majority of football clubs would love to be failing as badly as we are.
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Daniel Levy - Chairman
- Thread starter Howard Webb
- Start date
The vast majority of football clubs would love to be failing as badly as we are.
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
I’d never say our owners don’t want us to win trophies. The signing of Mourinho proved that intent to some extent. Yet it also seems the closer we get to it, the less they want to invest.
I lost patience with Mournho quite early on but once he’d stayed on post Europa which would have been his silver bullet I don’t understand the timing of his sacking. I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that it may have been influenced by the cost of sacking him, whether linked to our league position / CL qualification possibility or even a cup win bonus. If it was for any of those reasons then I’d find it hard to defend the focus of the owners.
Nuno just feels like a cheap stop gap, even if he has been dealt a terrible starting hand. But I’m concerned the pragmatic start that yielded results has been torn up by Nuno due to an outside request to play good / attractive / open / dominant / sexy / suicidal football.
In the past it’s always felt like Levy has corrected an unsuccessful managerial appointment next time around (ignoring caretakers), so we’ve tended to make higher highs after a dip (arguably the lows have been when trying to bring in someone more pragmatic/ higher rep to take the popular manager / attractive football / no trophy predecessor to the next level of delivering a trophy).
This time it’s starting to feel like a sequence of failures that could leave us looking at 3 consecutive worse league finishes which will think would be taking us to pre Enic levels?
Some difficult decisions ahead if we don’t turn around results soon.
I lost patience with Mournho quite early on but once he’d stayed on post Europa which would have been his silver bullet I don’t understand the timing of his sacking. I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that it may have been influenced by the cost of sacking him, whether linked to our league position / CL qualification possibility or even a cup win bonus. If it was for any of those reasons then I’d find it hard to defend the focus of the owners.
Nuno just feels like a cheap stop gap, even if he has been dealt a terrible starting hand. But I’m concerned the pragmatic start that yielded results has been torn up by Nuno due to an outside request to play good / attractive / open / dominant / sexy / suicidal football.
In the past it’s always felt like Levy has corrected an unsuccessful managerial appointment next time around (ignoring caretakers), so we’ve tended to make higher highs after a dip (arguably the lows have been when trying to bring in someone more pragmatic/ higher rep to take the popular manager / attractive football / no trophy predecessor to the next level of delivering a trophy).
This time it’s starting to feel like a sequence of failures that could leave us looking at 3 consecutive worse league finishes which will think would be taking us to pre Enic levels?
Some difficult decisions ahead if we don’t turn around results soon.
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Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
When you have a 62,000 capacity and the most expensive tickets in the land then perhaps the fans are not actually quite as easily replaceable as the owners might think.... Especially when the product is poor. We increased our fan base again when we were riding high under Pochettino, some of those new fans can be quite fickle and less interested when things aren't going as well. With gross debt of about £1.2 billion the club needs to operate at high capacity and high prices. We no longer have CL revenue that we had a few years ago. We no longer have Europa revenue that we had last season (and in the seasons before Poch worked his magic to make us a CL regular). There have been far more corporate tickets for sale on a match by match basis this season (I've had a few calls from THFC about these). If we slip even further away from challenging as is evident then the take up of these will decrease further, that means less money that can go towards squad strengthening and (likely) us falling even further away.
A business should never take its customers for granted. Not even a business who has a unique hold over its customers.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
I do find it a little bit amusing that the likes of @Finney Is Back are kind of responsible for Levy hiring Paratici > Paratici then stopping us signing Fonseca > and hiring Nuno instead.
All the talk from the end of last season from the naysayers was how Levy needed to get a DoF in. Now we have one, we have to let him mould the side. Who in their right mind thinks that will take place in a couple of games!? Both Paratici and Nuno need time to work. We have some talent in the side, we have a bit of a conundrum in midfield imo, but it is quite normal that a side needs time to take shape. That is not Levy's responsibility. He's done what Finney etc were baying for. Now he's appointed a DoF, they are of course having a good old whinge about whatever else they can.
All the talk from the end of last season from the naysayers was how Levy needed to get a DoF in. Now we have one, we have to let him mould the side. Who in their right mind thinks that will take place in a couple of games!? Both Paratici and Nuno need time to work. We have some talent in the side, we have a bit of a conundrum in midfield imo, but it is quite normal that a side needs time to take shape. That is not Levy's responsibility. He's done what Finney etc were baying for. Now he's appointed a DoF, they are of course having a good old whinge about whatever else they can.
spurs' magna carter
Ronnie Rosenthal
Great post.
What happens on the pitch is the number one money maker, as sponsors want winners, yet player recruitment has been neglected or at least poorly dealt with.
This rot began in 2019 when we sold Dembele. Looking back, Levy thought it was Poch to blame but it was beyond evident the squad needed improving, even from the early parts of 2017/18, and the club failed to give Poch the players he wanted. Levy failed to see this, even in hindsight, when he talked of managers rejecting players which the club could buy in that poorly conceived PR stunt video during the summer.
The stadium is the best, by a mile, but did it really need to be? We needed to give supply to the demand (season ticket waiting list) and focus on the team, not try revolutionise the stadium game and try our best to not have affect an already tight transfer kitty, which us affectively what Levy said in that 'promise' that the stadium won't affect the funds and the team, which Wembley evidently did. Infact it could be argued that we could've done the same retractable pitch at the old gaff under a new West Stand, Real Madrid are doing exactly that for the stadium renovations and with a retratable roof to boot.
Architecture frames social interaction, something which sadly seems to have forgotten by the club. This new stadium was supposed to frame something special on the pitch, not be framed itself off it.
I would rather have had an expanded 52,000 WHL with a team that wins trophies, playing great football, rather than a 62,000 space ship with a team that refuses to turn up, let alone fails to win trophies.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Well you know there are some fans who just like to bitch, some far more then others. I have heard Spurs have more fickle FANS then most clubs though. Not sure i believe that but who knows.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Ironically, I think it is because of the platform Levy has given Spurs. We do aspire to more now. We did touch the higher echelons that we all wanted. |But progress is never linear unless you have pools of oil money to cover failed signing, and even Chelsea and city have blips.
What @spurs' magna carter doesn't appreciate is that the stadium should allow Spurs to be more successful over the long term. It should cement Tottenham as a top club for many decades to come. You couldn't add stands to WHL, it wasn't possible.
My only real criticism of Levy is that he listens to the fans sometimes, rather than sticking to a clear vision.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I don't think we have fickle fans at all. Our attendances have always been up amongst the best through thick and (mainly) thin.
Our owners have made themselves a hell of a lot richer by owning THFC. Our fans pay the highest prices in the country to watch THFC (not sure if you are a regular parklane?... Though I think you have a season ticket?). As a result of those two things I think we absolutely should be reasonably demanding of our owners.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
I can't dance with any of that especially the bolded bit. We all know Levy is not perfect ( no one is not even those who think they could do a better job then him) personally my major bitch with him is the timing of some of the sackings of managers.
spurs' magna carter
Ronnie Rosenthal
Yes it is a platform for the future but the future is foggy at best, cannot be seen, that's why most people stay in the present and the present says:
We have won one league cup in 20 years.
We are in near relegation form.
The style of play is abysmal. The team plays the worst I can remember and yes I remember the 1990s and Ramos's last game at stoke back in 2008 and AVB's last game at home to Liverpool but this feels beyond that, despite currently having a better squad than all those eras combined.
I was a Levy advocate and do not deny that we have grown because of him. Where I am left frustrated with Levy is that it is not until the team is in serious brick that serious money is spent. Yet, when we fully recover and are in a better position than before we don't do enough in the transfer market and stagnate or even decline again.
Either Levy has a clear vision of boom and bust for Tottenham Hotspur or one focused purely on ENIC's investment.
It's been a long time since I saw our stadium much from capacity (in any match that mattered) and whenever my son has dragged me into the club shop it's been impossible to move. I don't think were struggling for fans and if you or I were to throw a hissy fit and refuse to turn up, plenty of others would.
Where the club has lost out in on CL revenue - something I think you've criticised Levy for prioritising in the past.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Chelsea game didn't sell out and the number of tickets available on ticket exchange was huge. The interest is already waning a little. The price charged is higher than the level of the product.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
57k at Chelsea
If that's a persistent problem once all the COVID isolation nonsense has finished then I expect prices will decrease to meet demand.
It's unlikely that will be required though.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I hope so.... I will be nice to be charged a price commensurate with our level of ambition. I can then put the several hundred quid saved towards the away weekends.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
We have three summers in a row with significant net spends. Following years of frugality linked rather obvious to the stadium build.
Could say we've been in serious brick for three years I guess. Would have been a strange description post CL final, but in hindsight, sure. But to me the stadium build seems like the main factor, not our situation on the pitch.
Had we been successful last season, with money from the stadium again coming in would you have expected Levy to just sit on the money and not spend it?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
2019 and 2020 we operated significant net spends. It was only £30.7 million this summer however.
Here is the full PL net spend list for this season. Considering we had no real significant sales our number is unremarkable:
1. Arsenal – £123.3m
2. Man Utd – £115.3m
3. Emirates Marketing Project – £83.88m
4. West Ham – £66.7m
5. Leicester City – £55.4m
6. Leeds United – £53m
7. Crystal Palace – £51.2m
8. Tottenham – £30.7m
9. Saudi Sportswashing Machine – £26.4m
10. Norwich City – £25.8m
11. Burnley – £20.3m
12. Liverpool – £13.9m
13. Watford – £2m
14. Brighton – £0.4m profit
15. Chelsea – £3.9m profit
16. Wolves – £4.6m profit
17. Aston Villa – £5m profit
18. Everton – £5.4m profit
19. Brentford – £13.5m profit
20. Southampton – £18.9m profit
braineclipse
Willie Hall
That doesn't include the Romero option to buy though does it? Quite clearly that's a deal we want to make permanent, would be shocked if it wasn't.
Including Romero that's somewhere in the 60-70m range?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
We haven't spent it. We might not take up the option. It's on the never-never....
I'd imagine you'll also try to include that spending in next year's number so I'm just making sure you don't double count it!
Think it's about 200m+/- net spend in the 3 seasons since the stadium opened it's doors - not earth shattering but a far cry from the years of breaking even whilst the build was ongoing. Coincidence? I'm sure some will argue so, but that's their perogative