Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[P.D.]

Derp What we need is continued scrutiny of this government and for Labour to be far more on the front foot, something sadly Starmer has not been despite a good start. A retreat to Corbynism or trying to outcompete Tory flag waving is not the answer. Labour should be less defensive in interviews though, that is something they should copy from the Tories. Really important they put together credible economic policies that don't just favour the likes of James Dyson.

On the latter isn't it amazing that a billionaire can exploit a country in the middle of a pandemic and withhold ventilators unless the tax conditions were favourable to his company. Just as bad is that Boris was happy to assist him to do Derp Imagine if public sector workers such as the NHS workers chose to go on strike unless the PM fixed their tax or gave them a payrise during the pandemic? There would be widespread condemnation and rightly so. But when it came to Dyson doesn't even register a protest, Boris says he's not going to apologise for it either. It's this sort of double standards that makes me despair.

This is highly exaggerated, Dyson didn't have any ventilators - just a concept that was requested from a number of companies that hadn't been demonstrated to work. Nothing was withheld at all - there's laws that if your residence is abroad then you can only spend a certain number of days in the UK without paying tax here. Granted it doesn't look good asking about that first rather than just coming right here to help out but it's a nothing story really.

 

[Robspur12]

This is highly exaggerated, Dyson didn't have any ventilators - just a concept that was requested from a number of companies that hadn't been demonstrated to work. Nothing was withheld at all - there's laws that if your residence is abroad then you can only spend a certain number of days in the UK without paying tax here. Granted it doesn't look good asking about that first rather than just coming right here to help out but it's a nothing story really.

The principle is still the same whether or not ventilators were there to supply. The billionaire asks for a tax break from his mate before helping out his country, the government were prepared to give it. This was especially bad if there were companies that were UK based who were prepared to produce them. If NHS staff were not prepared to work the extra hours that they did to save lives until overtime rates, tax breaks or pay rises were agreed I'm sure you would have something to say.

 

[parklane1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1356195611561889797

Aa tad too close to the truth sadly, but entertaining.

Brilliant.

 

[Robspur12]

I dont agree, I think people know exactly who and what Boris is but Labour stock is at such an all time low they dont care enough about who paid for Boris refurb enough to vote them in. The Corbyn legacy and continued infighting is hurting Labour more than anything. Its a shame that the opposition party is not in a fit enough state to really hold the current government accountable, but thats the reality, people trust Labour less to run things despite the Tory issues.

I actually think it's much simpler than that and very little to do with Corbyn. The pandemic has left people desperate and worried about their jobs. They see what Ben Houchen has done bringing money into the area as Teeside mayor and they want some of that. The government has for the last 12 months acted like a Labour government giving out financial support left, right and centre so people are wondering what Labour would do differently. Add to that Keir Starmer hasn't been great about outlining a better economic policy, and add to that Tory flag waving over Brexit. People understandably don't feel the need to look for an alternative. The Welsh have had the opposite choice and have given Labour, the benefit of the doubt as they have played the role the Tories have in England without flag waving.

Sleaze is important as it's about the conduct of the Government which has been and will continue to be shocking, now with even less accountability. But Starmer has made it his main focus because there isn't really anything else that he has at the moment. It doesn't trump concerns about jobs etc.

Starmer and his advisors need to not panic nothing is going to change in the short term. Take some time to look at their policies, decide what is realistic and will appeal then get on the front foot.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I actually think it's much simpler than that and very little to do with Corbyn. The pandemic has left people desperate and worried about their jobs. They see what Ben Houchen has done bringing money into the area as Teeside mayor and they want some of that. The government has for the last 12 months acted like a Labour government giving out financial support left, right and centre so people are wondering what Labour would do differently. Add to that Keir Starmer hasn't been great about outlining a better economic policy, and add to that Tory flag waving over Brexit. People understandably don't feel the need to look for an alternative. The Welsh have had the opposite choice and have given Labour, the benefit of the doubt as they have played the role the Tories have in England without flag waving.

Sleaze is important as it's about the conduct of the Government which has been and will continue to be shocking, now with even less accountability. But Starmer has made it his main focus because there isn't really anything else that he has at the moment. It doesn't trump concerns about jobs etc.

Starmer and his advisors need to not panic nothing is going to change in the short term. Take some time to look at their policies, decide what is realistic and will appeal then get on the front foot.

It will be the economy that swings things. When people realise their wages are not going up because the tax threshold won't be increasing in future years. That is when things change. For most it is only money.

 

[Mikey10]

It will be the economy that swings things. When people realise their wages are not going up because the tax threshold won't be increasing in future years. That is when things change. For most it is only money.

Agree totally. Most British people ignore politics (as the turnout in these elections shows once again) until it hits their pocket.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Good points re. the economy.

Had it been Labour in power, the Torys would be talking about Labours massive debt and spending, and how they made it worse by being fast and lose with contracts and the nations money. The Sun and Mail would have daily stories backing up the narrative and come Election Day voters would feel some urgency to vote out the current party.

Labour has serious publicity issues. They are not prepared to attack the Tories, and put themselves on the map.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Good points re. the economy.

Had it been Labour in power, the Torys would be talking about Labours massive debt and spending, and how they made it worse by being fast and lose with contracts and the nations money. The Sun and Mail would have daily stories backing up the narrative and come Election Day voters would feel some urgency to vote out the current party.

Labour has serious publicity issues. They are not prepared to attack the Tories, and put themselves on the map.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I actually keep forgetting about the dodgy contracts during the pandemic and I am critical of the government. Really think more should be done by Labour about that.

Using digital media to show how many nurses in a field that would have paid for and for how many years.

I also think about other issues in politics, how that town up north flooded two years in a row. Have they actually done anything to change it?

What about the new social care bill?

What about Heathrow expansion, if people do not think air travel will return how about doing Crossrail 2 or electric rail lines in the North.

 

[markysimmo]

Top few days for the Reds

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I actually keep forgetting about the dodgy contracts during the pandemic and I am critical of the government. Really think more should be done by Labour about that.

Using digital media to show how many nurses in a field that would have paid for and for how many years.

I also think about other issues in politics, how that town up north flooded two years in a row. Have they actually done anything to change it?

What about the new social care bill?

What about Heathrow expansion, if people do not think air travel will return how about doing Crossrail 2 or electric rail lines in the North.

The way they have given their mates contracts is starting to bite now
I’m still working in some defence stuff and we haven’t a pot to tinkle in suddenly as it’s all been spent in COVID
Yet the projects I’m on have to be let due to certain legal requirements and the savings at current rate equate to about £10m year ... I reckon they will pull the plug and then give it to one if their mates direct

 

[JerusalemMan]

The principle is still the same whether or not ventilators were there to supply. The billionaire asks for a tax break from his mate before helping out his country, the government were prepared to give it. This was especially bad if there were companies that were UK based who were prepared to produce them. If NHS staff were not prepared to work the extra hours that they did to save lives until overtime rates, tax breaks or pay rises were agreed I'm sure you would have something to say.

A pretty gross mischaracterisation. But I understand why you like to and want to believe it

Here's what he had to say about it, and I'm inclined to believe him rather than the less well informed partisans who choose to take yet another pop at a political opponent and anyone who seems vaguely aligned with them

"When the Prime Minister rang on March 13 2020 to request urgent help developing ventilators for the NHS, my immediate instinct was to do all we could to assist. This was an emergency, a time of fear and uncertainty for everyone and a period of extreme volatility for businesses. Nevertheless, we put commercial projects on hold and engaged 450 Dyson people from around the globe to begin the huge task of developing a ventilator from scratch.

There were myriad questions, from the technical to medical and compliance. It was in this context that we wrote formally to the Chancellor on March 15 for clarification on how UK tax rules would apply during this period of unprecedented upheaval. This was to ensure no one was inadvertently penalised and that we, and others, could attack the task with the right team. We did not wait for a response and started work immediately.

These issues were subsequently raised with the Prime Minister by text, as we sought urgent assurances about assumptions we were having to rely on. The clarifications we asked for were of general application affecting the treatment of international businesses and people supporting the national effort, including health workers. This is evident from the Chancellor’s subsequent letter to the Treasury Committee of April 9.

Dyson employees worked around the clock to develop a new ventilator in 30 days and I pay tribute to their exceptional expertise and commitment. We received a conditional government order for 10,000 machines and by May 8 we were ready for production with medical approvals imminent. However, mercifully, our ventilators were not needed. Neither Dyson nor Weybourne, its parent company, sought or received any benefit from the ventilator programme.

We voluntarily forwent the chance to reclaim £20 million of costs from the Government. We have never claimed any Covid support, including furlough, for any of our businesses, from any government anywhere. And yet, it has been argued that in the PM’s direct dealings with me I was seeking some kind of preferment. What favours did anyone believe I was exacting from contact with the Prime Minister as part of a project where Dyson voluntarily donated £20 million of its resources?

It was entirely the right thing for the Prime Minister to contact me directly. We have 4,000 people in the UK as well as global supply chains and advanced manufacturing expertise. Dyson teams around the world volunteered, enabling 24-hour working. In these circumstances why wouldn’t we seek clarification, when we needed it, from the decision makers themselves? Far from concealing the text exchanges, we shared them explicitly with officials at the Treasury and No 10 via email on March 28.

The BBC’s characterisation of me as a prominent Conservative donor, or supporter, leveraging a position of power to extract favours from the Prime Minister, is completely untrue. I have met Boris Johnson only three times – always with officials – the last time in 2016. I have not attended any Conservative social events. When the BBC contacted us, we answered all of Laura Kuenssberg’s many questions. She did not ask if I am a Conservative donor. In her broadcast, however, the BBC claimed I was a prominent Conservative supporter - this she later admitted was based on a charitable donation shown on the Electoral Commission register of £11,450, made by The James Dyson Foundation to the Wiltshire Engineering Festival.

A staggering claim. She and the BBC made this grotesque mischaracterisation to justify their “sleaze” story which would otherwise simply not have stood up.

The festival, run in 2016 and 2017, was attended by thousands of local school pupils to encourage young people into engineering. For the record, the total donations I have made to political causes in my entire life amount to £800. Laura Kuenssberg also argued that I had spoken at the Conservative Party Conference in 2009 to further justify her story. But I have spoken at the Labour Party conference as well, in 1998, and on both occasions the topic was engineering."

 

[Aldo]

Starmer doing his cabinet reshuffle late on a Sunday night, like a school kid who hasn't done his homework over the weekend rushing it before class on Monday morning.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I dont agree, I think people know exactly who and what Boris is but Labour stock is at such an all time low they dont care enough about who paid for Boris refurb enough to vote them in. The Corbyn legacy and continued infighting is hurting Labour more than anything. Its a shame that the opposition party is not in a fit enough state to really hold the current government accountable, but thats the reality, people trust Labour less to run things despite the Tory issues.

there's this whole issue of 'Trust Labour' being bandied about, which makes you think when it's open how the Tories are giving contracts to buddies, and rich millionaires can lobby the government on a personal whatsapp message... why are they still trusted? Because, in my view, the right wing media, our 'free press', isn't exactly holding the government up to any type of scrutiny

 

[JerusalemMan]

Starmer doing his cabinet reshuffle late on a Sunday night, like a school kid who hasn't done his homework over the weekend rushing it before class on Monday morning.

Wasn't it delayed because of the negotiating between him and Rayner?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Just watched an interview with a former Labour Hartlepool voter who switched to the Tories in the by election. Said he voted Labour out because they were "wrecking everything." When prompted how, he replied that Labour had closed the local hospital, the magistrates court and the local lock up. These were of course all measures adopted by the Tory government. And the BBC, what was their response, you know that hot bed of left wing radicalism? The interviewer just nodded along and gave the impression that everything said was true. Clearly a mind polluted by Murdochism and reinforced by the BBC. Ironically he said these days you're not bound by class, you can think for yourself. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Robspur12]

A pretty gross mischaracterisation. But I understand why you like to and want to believe it

Here's what he had to say about it, and I'm inclined to believe him rather than the less well informed partisans who choose to take yet another pop at a political opponent and anyone who seems vaguely aligned with them

"When the Prime Minister rang on March 13 2020 to request urgent help developing ventilators for the NHS, my immediate instinct was to do all we could to assist. This was an emergency, a time of fear and uncertainty for everyone and a period of extreme volatility for businesses. Nevertheless, we put commercial projects on hold and engaged 450 Dyson people from around the globe to begin the huge task of developing a ventilator from scratch.

There were myriad questions, from the technical to medical and compliance. It was in this context that we wrote formally to the Chancellor on March 15 for clarification on how UK tax rules would apply during this period of unprecedented upheaval. This was to ensure no one was inadvertently penalised and that we, and others, could attack the task with the right team. We did not wait for a response and started work immediately.

These issues were subsequently raised with the Prime Minister by text, as we sought urgent assurances about assumptions we were having to rely on. The clarifications we asked for were of general application affecting the treatment of international businesses and people supporting the national effort, including health workers. This is evident from the Chancellor’s subsequent letter to the Treasury Committee of April 9.

Dyson employees worked around the clock to develop a new ventilator in 30 days and I pay tribute to their exceptional expertise and commitment. We received a conditional government order for 10,000 machines and by May 8 we were ready for production with medical approvals imminent. However, mercifully, our ventilators were not needed. Neither Dyson nor Weybourne, its parent company, sought or received any benefit from the ventilator programme.

We voluntarily forwent the chance to reclaim £20 million of costs from the Government. We have never claimed any Covid support, including furlough, for any of our businesses, from any government anywhere. And yet, it has been argued that in the PM’s direct dealings with me I was seeking some kind of preferment. What favours did anyone believe I was exacting from contact with the Prime Minister as part of a project where Dyson voluntarily donated £20 million of its resources?

It was entirely the right thing for the Prime Minister to contact me directly. We have 4,000 people in the UK as well as global supply chains and advanced manufacturing expertise. Dyson teams around the world volunteered, enabling 24-hour working. In these circumstances why wouldn’t we seek clarification, when we needed it, from the decision makers themselves? Far from concealing the text exchanges, we shared them explicitly with officials at the Treasury and No 10 via email on March 28.

The BBC’s characterisation of me as a prominent Conservative donor, or supporter, leveraging a position of power to extract favours from the Prime Minister, is completely untrue. I have met Boris Johnson only three times – always with officials – the last time in 2016. I have not attended any Conservative social events. When the BBC contacted us, we answered all of Laura Kuenssberg’s many questions. She did not ask if I am a Conservative donor. In her broadcast, however, the BBC claimed I was a prominent Conservative supporter - this she later admitted was based on a charitable donation shown on the Electoral Commission register of £11,450, made by The James Dyson Foundation to the Wiltshire Engineering Festival.

A staggering claim. She and the BBC made this grotesque mischaracterisation to justify their “sleaze” story which would otherwise simply not have stood up.

The festival, run in 2016 and 2017, was attended by thousands of local school pupils to encourage young people into engineering. For the record, the total donations I have made to political causes in my entire life amount to £800. Laura Kuenssberg also argued that I had spoken at the Conservative Party Conference in 2009 to further justify her story. But I have spoken at the Labour Party conference as well, in 1998, and on both occasions the topic was engineering."

This is not a "pop" at a political opponent and anyone aligned to him. It is about equity, fairness and access to the ear of the most powerful person in the land. If Dyson is speaking honestly then I take back what I said about him.

But please understand the frustration when many others were working unpaid hours, putting themselves at personal risk, around the clock to make sure people received treatment or others were safe to see companies with direct access to the PM to fix their tax issues. In amongst other examples of giving contracts to who the cabinet knew without proper scrutiny. That is not a good look whatever you think.

 

[Robspur12]

Just watched an interview with a former Labour Hartlepool voter who switched to the Tories in the by election. Said he voted Labour out because they were "wrecking everything." When prompted how, he replied that Labour had closed the local hospital, the magistrates court and the local lock up. These were of course all measures adopted by the Tory government. And the BBC, what was their response, you know that hot bed of left wing radicalism? The interviewer just nodded along and gave the impression that everything said was true. Clearly a mind polluted by Murdochism and reinforced by the BBC. Ironically he said these days you're not bound by class, you can think for yourself. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Did Labour do a good job though of combatting these misconceptions though? They seem just to go along with it. They need to be on the front foot more.

 

[Rorschach]

Just watched an interview with a former Labour Hartlepool voter who switched to the Tories in the by election. Said he voted Labour out because they were "wrecking everything." When prompted how, he replied that Labour had closed the local hospital, the magistrates court and the local lock up. These were of course all measures adopted by the Tory government. And the BBC, what was their response, you know that hot bed of left wing radicalism? The interviewer just nodded along and gave the impression that everything said was true. Clearly a mind polluted by Murdochism and reinforced by the BBC. Ironically he said these days you're not bound by class, you can think for yourself. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

I saw that interview. Amazingly similar to the GOP/Fox news alt-fact bubble.

The BBC should do better of course but they are not the source of the misinfo.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

The way they have given their mates contracts is starting to bite now
I’m still working in some defence stuff and we haven’t a pot to tinkle in suddenly as it’s all been spent in COVID
Yet the projects I’m on have to be let due to certain legal requirements and the savings at current rate equate to about £10m year ... I reckon they will pull the plug and then give it to one if their mates direct

Surprised by that post. Generally the lines about “they give the business to their mates” are only trotted out by people who don’t really understand public sector procurement and contracting. Especially in the sectors, like yours, where vetting is a major hurdle for upstarts.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Surprised by that post. Generally the lines about “they give the business to their mates” are only trotted out by people who don’t really understand public sector procurement and contracting. Especially in the sectors, like yours, where vetting is a major hurdle for upstarts.

Their mates in my world are the big 4 and a few others
Their already vetted and would rather they do the work for them at a HUGE premium